Ignition System Mess

Gray thing is the voltage regulator for the alternator. So, unless you convert your alternator to one with an internal regulator, you need it.

Excellent Husker and thanks.

The grey thing can stay.

So how we're down to coil and distributer.

I have seen on the distributers installation instructions that you can run a coil and distributer or a ignition control with coil and distributer - are there any significant benefits to adding the ignition control? And, I'm guessing I'll need a tach adaptor for either option to connect it to a original tach?

If so, which one would be the right one?

If your changing or adding nearly everything anyway, another solution maybe the pantera electronics ignition.
http://www.pantera-electronics.com/eis.htm
It does not need a tach adapter and has other functions too. Jon would likely be able to help you out with many of your needs, even just with some tech help to get you through a wiring mess.

How much do you want to clean up? It is possible to eliminate the solenoid and voltage regulator. What is your current ignition system?

Tony

quote:

another solution maybe the pantera electronics ignition.
http://www.pantera-electronics.com/eis.htm
It does not need a tach adapter and has other functions too. Jon would likely be able to help you out with many of your needs, even just with some tech help to get you through a wiring mess.

Two enthusiastic thumbs up for Jon Haas and his Electronic Ignition System (EIS) - and all his products for that matter! I have the EIS in my car and it's great!

• 100x faster than an MSD box
  
• Will fire a wet oil-soaked plug
  
• No tach adapter required
  
• Not susceptible to failure if you weld on your car or jump start your car with a booster back
  
• Controls/synchronizes distributor advance with the ignition
  
• Controls the electric choke on your carb
  
• Will control an electric fuel pump, if you have one
  
• Has an AC shut-off function to turn off the AC if you get on hit hard (getting you back those extra horsepower!)
  
• Has a user settable rev limiter, without needed to buy "pills" to change it
  
• Has dynamic idle control to adjust your idle when the AC kicks on
  
• Has diagnostic LED lights which tell you if all systems are properly hooked up and powered
  
• Is impervious to engine compartment heat - the MSD and Mallory boxes often die as a result of heat, like my old one did
  
• Comes with the best tech support, bar none! Jon is an electrical wizard and will walk you through the steps necessary to accurately diagnose any issues or verify you've installed everything correctly

Oh, and you can use your existing MSD Blaster 2 coil with Jon's EIS system.

The John Haas controller is great, but... it can't replace a coil, voltage regulator or solenoid...

(... Unless it really is a miracle product!)

If you want to get rid of the Voltage regulator, you need to convert to one of the "1 Wire" regulators (there is a GM ??? (Part number escapes me... 12-SI?). That means rewiring and you lose one of the generator idiot light functions on the dash board.....

I did not do this - I had my existing alternator rewound for higher capacity, with the same interface to the external VR. You can get solid state ones that likely have higher reliability than the mechanical relay type - yours (with the silver cover) may already be solid state.

If you want to lose the remote solenoid, you can likely get a PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) starter - which is an excellent upgrade - you need to do some rewiring to get those high power lines running directly to the starter, as well as the solenoid control. You may or may not need a tap of the battery to bypass the ballast resistor to the coil if you have one.

Or you can use a PMGR starter with that external solenoid, by merely running a wire off the remote solenoid to the starter.


My suggestion?

Clean up what you have, get it running as well as you can (if able) THEN worry about ignition upgrades.

Those wires can be cleaned up with judicious sorting, rearrangement, new terminals maybe connectors, zip-ties, and sheathing/cable wraps.

Rocky

If you use Pantera Electronics GM 12Si alternator kit with the 12Si alternator you can loose the voltage regulator and keep all your idiot lights.
http://www.pantera-electronics.com/12sialternator.htm

The mini starter Pantera Performance sells., it may be a PMGR, works great. You can eliminate the solenoid and if I remember right only have to extend 1 wire to the starter.

If your looking to add an ignition controller then the Pantera Performance EIC is the way to go for all the reasons stated above. Also, you can not beat Jon's customer service and knowledge. It will come down to how much do you want to clean up your wiring mess. What you have works and can be made to look a lot better or you can replace/upgrade everything and set it up the way you want. No right or wrong answer, just how much time and/or money do you want to spend.

Tony

At the moment particularly I need to keep the car "as stock as possible" to get it through Rego inspections here before I think about playing with just about anything as its never been registered here in AU and I'm keeping it left hand drive.

I think I've worked out most things, but don't want to to connect the tach directly to the MSD grey tach input line if its going to fry the tach.

So regulator stays as is - Orange and Red between coil and dist stay, need to find original 12V supply wire and then work out what to do with the Blue and Blue / Black that go to the tacho.

Once I get plates on it then I can look at all the other nice things

Michael,

From the original wiring harness:

The pink wire is the ignition "run" wire (key in the "run" position). It originally went to the one side of the ballast resistor and then to the coil "BAT" (+) terminal.

The red wire was connected to the pink wire (same pink wire as above) and went to the throttle position solenoid at the carb.

The blue wire went to the distributor and the blue/black wire went to the tach. These were originally connected together and went to the other side of the ballast resistor and then to the coil "NEG" (-) terminal.

Soooo, connect the pink wire to the coil "BAT" (+) terminal along with the red wire from your 8530 distributor.

Connect the orange wire from your 8530 distributor to the coil "NEG" (-) terminal.

Connect the blue/black wire to the gray wire from your 8530 distributor. If the tach doesn't work, contact MSD for the appropriate tach adapter.

John

Chuck,

"That means rewiring and you lose one of the generator idiot light functions on the dash board....."

Only if you don't finish the job.

John

Thanks heaps for that John and you all,

I'll give that a crack and see what happens!

I'm taking from this the original blue wire from the back of the tach is now redundant?

The rest works for me - hopefully the tach and car will once I've done it!

Fingers crossed (and not wires hopefully).

You will need the tach adapter. The grey wire from the MSD does not output a compatible signal to the Pantera tach. When I did mine the research suggested that the MSD tach adapter was unreliable at best and catches on fire at the worst. I found that a Mallory #29078 had good reviews. It's contained in a metal box not plastic like the MSD so I figured the fire risk was less. It's much more expensive than the MSD but so far I've had no issues with it. See the attachment. You would wire it as described in Figure B.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by T.Solo:
You will need the tach adapter. The grey wire from the MSD does not output a compatible signal to the Pantera tach. When I did mine the research suggested that the MSD tach adapter was unreliable at best and catches on fire at the worst. I found that a Mallory #29078 had good reviews. It's contained in a metal box not plastic like the MSD so I figured the fire risk was less. It's much more expensive than the MSD but so far I've had no issues with it. See the attachment. You would wire it as described in Figure B.


Steve

Keep in mind MSD bought Mallory and shut them down so Mallory parts are no longer in production.

Thanks again Steve and Husker - I'll go looking for a tach adaptor to suit!

How odd one company buying its competition and closing it down... Who'd have thought?

Michael,

The blue/black wire goes to the tach.

The blue wire (originally) went to the distributor.

John

quote:

The John Haas controller is great, but... it can't replace a coil, voltage regulator or solenoid.

True Rocky!
Coil - He's already got the necessary MSD coil - no need to buy another one.
Voltage Regulator - I forgot to mention that I have a GM 12Si alternator. All idiot lights work, internally regulated, but I still have the voltage regulator installed against the firewall, just bypassed.
Solenoid - I also have a PMGR starter from DB Electric, which is a great and inexpensive upgrade. Again though, I haven't removed my external solenoid. It's just bypassed per the wiring instructions from DB Electric. I also put one of these in my 66 GT Mustang.

I was looking for PMGR starter for a friend's 1970 Mach I with a 351C. Couldn't find one on the DB Electric website. Not sure if they carry them anymore.

DB has them.
DB Electrical
664 Eastern Star Rd, Kingsport, TN 37663
Phone---(423) 477-2242
Hours: Open today · 8AM–5PM

Call them. You will need to know if the Mustang is auto or manual.

Great products and super nice.

A question I should ask then is Tach adaptors....

Which one? I've seen that MSD have several different options or models; is there one that people here already know works?

I just installed a MSD distributer, digital 6AL box and to make the tach work, MSD tach adapter PN 8920.