Trunioun bearing

The platform that the trunion mounts to should be level, but I would be a little surprised if it is all that critical. If you are grinding in every gear, it sounds to me like you are not getting enough clutch disengagement. (I see you already addressed that). Maybe you need to lube the shaft at the trunion to allow the shaft to move far enough in both directions to allow full gear mesh? This doesn't sound like a solution but it might be helpful in solving the problem, you might remove the shift gate and see if that allows you to move the lever a little further in both directions to get your gear without grinding?
Art

I chased the same problems after my ZF was rebuilt. When I replaced the Tri-union I noticed that the shift shaft was bent quite a lot. I got a new one. This may not be the cause of your grinding though. I ended up getting a long throw slave cylinder and steel line. After a lot of careful bleeding, the trans shifts fine.
Good luck and don't give up.
Mooso

Thanks for the replys!

My clutch is releasing properly. At first I was only getting a grind into second and third. It was worse after the car was driven for a while and was well warmed up. Now that I have replaced the trunion it grinds into EVERY gear when downshifting. I know that even a slight bend in the shift linkage can really throw things off. I had to do a lot of adjusting after I installed the new bearing to get it to shift at all! I think I need to get under there and see if I can figure out where it was originally -there is a little support brace that looks like it should be welded to the frame that is broke free. Someone must have used it to pry on for some reason. The engine was supposedly rebuilt before I got it so it may have happened when that was done (who knows).

I am really getting frustrated with this problem. I am almost ready to sell it and look for a different car!

I am really getting frustrated with this problem. I am almost ready to sell it and look for a different car![/QUOTE]
Don't sell the car! This too shall pass It seems that with that broken weld at the mounting bracket, the trunion could be moving which may be reducing the range in your shift linkage. This may be keeping you from going all the way into all the gears? When you get that welded up, and adjust the linkage, I wouldn't be surprised to see your problem go away.
Art

Dreamin,

I found an old mail list post that may be of help here. Note the comments about the splines! Even the jpeg's are still online! One is below for reference.

Did you get the problem solved? If so, what was the solution?
Art

Problem is still there. I got under there and bent the mount around til it looked like it was where it was supposed to be. Had to do quite a bit of adjusting to the linkage to get it back to shifting but I still have a grind into second gear and sometimes third. I now also have a fuel leak from the carb -have to address that probelem first. Anyone know if adjusting the trunion up or down would have any affect? There sure is a lot of threads on that sucker for the size of the mount. I tried to put it close to the height of the one I removed.
I emailed the builder and his feeling is that I may not have total clutch disengagement -I am going to follow up on that more.

quote:

his feeling is that I may not have total clutch disengagement -I am going to follow up on that more.

Okay, get a helper in the car and have them depress the clutch pedal to the floor. Get out your set of feeler gauges and find the one for 30/1000.

Through the bellhousing inspection window, you should be able to get the feeler gauge in between either the clutch and flywheel or clutch and pressure plate. It may take a thin blade screw driver to seperate them. You should have at least the 30/1000 or so of a gap if you are getting a good clutch disengagement. Any less than that and you know where to start working.

Hang in there. Hopefully it is just a series of adjustments - instead of bad synchros.

Larry

If you just got your ZF rebuilt, it seems to me that the rebuilder should be willing to offer advice on getting it to shift. Also, if you used a Pantera specific clutch, the vendor should be willing to help too.
I paid well north of $4000 to get my ZF done and believe me, I wasn't shy about asking questions when it came time to put it in.
I'd start ringing their phones off the hook. Don't feel like you have to figure it out all by yourself.
Mooso.

...I have Designed and Machined Trunnion bearings with Greasable/Replacable Bronze Inserts mounted in Stainless Steel. There Must be a 'Flexable' allowance for the Torquing of the Engine and the just plain Bouncing around of everyday driving. I am also working on a 'Three Piece' Bronze Insert Trunnion that would allow Installation without the need to disconnect the 'Shifter Shaft'. But, it turns out the end product is Too Expensive to Market. My Point is; There is a REASON why the Original trunnion is 'suspended' in a Bed of Rubber! So it can Flex with the movement of the Engine and transaxle! Maybe your engine and Trans are mounted so rigidly that they don't move when torqued. But, if not; When Your Trunnion is replaced with a More Rigid 'Heim' Joint, even though the Heim is obviously a 'Ball' Swivel and Slip joint, there is No Give 'Laterally'. So something else has to give or do the flexing. Perhaps the Rods and forks in the Shifter box and Transaxle itself; and up front in the Shift Lever Mechanism. Something we must think about when attempting to tighten up any loose rattles or excessive play, at that point...

...In My opinion I DO NOT believe that Your Grinding problem is a result of a misadjusted shifter rod!! I DO believe the problem arrises from the Engine 'Torque' NOT fully Disengaging from the Transaxle. This WILL Happen even if the 'Clutch Hydraulic System' is operating at 100%; IF the Pilot Bearing is Too Tight, Dry of Lubrication and on the way to 'Freezing Up'. One last trick I would try is: BEFORE starting the engine, Put the Trans into gear, any gear; Have the parking Break ON, Then start the engine, Depress the Clutch Pedal ALL the way to the Floor, and Hold it there!! Now give it a 'Little' Gas, if You feel a 'Pulling' on the drivetrain of any kind; either Your Clutch is out of adjustment and do the Measurement Larry F. advised You about. OR the Pilot Bearing is Binding just enough to rotate the internals of the transaxle cause that annoying grind. Just My experience with these Fine machines, These Beauties are by far 'Worth' any effort it takes to keep them running smooth and reliable! Good-Luck with it!!!...

Marlin, then you're no fan of the Hiem Joint tri-unions marketed by some vendors? Would you say it is acceptable, or is it likely to damage more expensive bits down the road? Would you recommend replacing my "hi-tech" tri-union with an original style...or is it going to be OK in a street car?
Thanks, Mooso.

quote:

no fan of the Hiem Joint tri-unions marketed by some vendors

True, as Marlin stated, no lateral movement with the heim joint trunion. However, I know that my 2511 has run with Dennis Q's heim conversion for about 25K miles now with no issues. I think the cabin shifter mechanism and the u-joints in the snake-like shaft assembly probably have enough play to compensate for engine torque movement.

The Dennis Q. heim conversion is really pretty simple. Large heim joint, shift rod removed with a tube welded over the original rod shaft in the area of the trunion, and that tube turned on a lathe to match the I.D. of the heim.

Larry

I also have Deenis Q's Trunion bearing complete set up.
Great piece of work and no issues after 2 years and 20,000 miles.

I would check the slave throw, 3/4 to 1", and the gap between the flywheel and the clutch disc to make sure your at .40,000 at least to be sure proper disengagement is happening first.
If this is not happening, bleed the clutch several times, if your still not getting the throw, replace the slave and then the master if need be to get the proper throw.

Also, as Dennis will tell you, you may have to oblong the Trunioun bearing mounting hole to get the proper alinement which is very important.

Like I said, I have Dennis Q's complete shifter linkage set up now for 2 years and 20,000 miles and I have not had a problen with the shifter linkage or alinement ever since.

I also replaced the salve and master as well.

How I adjust mine is I loosen the Trunioun bearing. Then I have someone move the shifter from inside the car from gear to gear. From under the car I look for the center position where it clears the fender well and the bell housing and presents no binding, and seems to want to center itself. Once this position is found, I tighten it down. From this point, I adjust the linkage, right/left & forward and back.

Smooth as silk.

quote:

Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...In My opinion I DO NOT believe that Your Grinding problem is a result of a misadjusted shifter rod!! I DO believe the problem arrises from the Engine 'Torque' NOT fully Disengaging from the Transaxle. This WILL Happen even if the 'Clutch Hydraulic System' is operating at 100%; IF the Pilot Bearing is Too Tight, Dry of Lubrication and on the way to 'Freezing Up'. One last trick I would try is: BEFORE starting the engine, Put the Trans into gear, any gear; Have the parking Break ON, Then start the engine, Depress the Clutch Pedal ALL the way to the Floor, and Hold it there!! Now give it a 'Little' Gas, if You feel a 'Pulling' on the drivetrain of any kind; either Your Clutch is out of adjustment and do the Measurement Larry F. advised You about. OR the Pilot Bearing is Binding just enough to rotate the internals of the transaxle cause that annoying grind. Just My experience with these Fine machines, These Beauties are by far 'Worth' any effort it takes to keep them running smooth and reliable! Good-Luck with it!!!...

...A correction in my advice please! About testing the disengagement of the clutch. Should read in order of "Put the Transaxle in Gear, Depress the clutch Pedal all the way to the floor, THEN Start the Engine!". My Apologies for the Mistake...

...To those who have had the Heim Joint Trunnion in their cars for thousands of miles, I would say that You have Proven over time, the design does work! Enough said...

I was finally able to spend a LITTLE time with the car this weekend! My rebuilt carb had some issues and took up most of my time. I did however dig out some feeler guages and had my wife depress the clutch. My largest feeler guage is a .024 so I combined it with a .021 and it went with ease. I think it is working fine! I didn't get to drive it any due to my carb problems. Did you know if you forget the gasket on the "economizer valve" in a Holley you can actually get raw gas to RUN out of your headers??