A Pantera Registry?

quote:

Originally posted by ParaPantera:
Are we as a group ready to initiate an Official registry?

Yes! It should include photographs of the vehicle, the ability to submit updates online, and access (both submission and view) should NOT be limited to members of any particular club (PI or POCA). However, I would be willing to pay a nominal fee to download a copy or have access to the online viewer where I could conceivably print my own copy.

Just my 2-cents!
Garth

Greetings all,

It's been a long time since I contributed to this forum but here goes.

Some of you will recall that at the start of the year I attempted to get a DT Registry off the ground on QV500.com. I was prepared to (and did) put the hours in for the good of our favourite marque and I think the early results were a success.

However, I was not prepared for the degree of bullshit and personal grief running such a system entailed. Some people will always want to criticise than contribute and when things started getting nasty (on this forum no less) I reluctantly decided not to bother publically chasing information and instead just do everything as and when off my own back. I was accused on several occasions of being a thief and a danger to the De Tomaso marque, I was insulted in a wholly unacceptable manner on several occasions and that proved to be the final straw. My threads were continually hijacked and this led to me withdrawing from contributing to PI because of the wholly unsatisfactory way in which the saga was dealt with. The entire situation has left a very sour taste in my mouth. You have been warned...

Best,

Ben Tyer
'66 Vallelunga Fantuzzi Spyder VL1609
'69 103 Formula 2

[QUOTE]Originally posted by george pence:
...I've thought about offering such a service via PI, but because there are several "registries" being operated by private individuals, I didn't want to step on any toes, muscle in on someones territory, so I've kept quiet.

Perhaps you can include those as the basis for the PI Registry, just cut and paste to the PI web page?

Hi Ben,

I agree with you.
It's too bad, but there are some "dubious" people around. I would use an other word, but it isn't allowed here.

Have fun with your cars.
Franz

quote:

4) It probably will be a complete waste of my time and money

I would disagree.Your information and anyone elses would be used for the "offical" regestry.Anyone contributing to the registery should get some sort of recognition.Although it will take a great deal of time and work,in the long run,pantera owners will benifit.

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
furthermore some owners will not participate, period! regardless if an organization backs the effort or not!

I for one am not interested in participating till one comes through as "The reference".

I think the real shortcoming here is one person trying to find all the details. I think the registry should be set up so the details come to it. A valid owner should be issued a login. The login would allow that owner to input details and photos as he likes. I believe the registry owner or group can provide general details and some specifics about all cars but the individual history should come from the owner in his own words. People can dispute issues in open forum, take it at face value or whatever.

The registry owner should provide a medium people can log past and current info about the car. The registry owner should not carry the heat for what some one else's submits. If some one says "My 71" is a GT5 and everyone says we all know it ain't, the info will be public. When the car sells, the previous owner looses his login and if the new owner want's to make contributions he can be issued a continuation; not to change what was written before him..That stays...But to add to it. He could even make entry's such as "Previous owner thought it was a GT5 but he was also taking some fine medication! It is not!"

Having info to start from is more important some times then the 100 accuracy. I think you will find the accuracy will improve over time will improve which is the advantage of open information. We are a small group.

I don't think the owner of a registry coming up with details as he see's them will work. I think it will be one sided an will limit the information. Being one sided doesn't mean it's wrong but it will forever be refuted.

I agree with Comp's post. I too would love to have an online, interactive registry where the owner could update and upload information. Sadley, this would have to be a pay-to-join registry to keep the bored 15 year olds from just signing up under John Doe's then wreaking havoc.

At the moment we have two membership dues type of club's, POCA and P.I. Could either of these structure such a registry in a way that membership allows login to the registry for viewing and perhaps adding comments (i.e. I used to own car #XXXXX), but the detailed information may be edited only by the current registered owner. This would require that each owner have a unique login allowing them to edit data for their car/cars.

Now how do we focus on the issue, and as a group initiate a REAL registry? Either that or we could just sit around, point fingers at others, and hope a registry just magicially appears one day.

I could see where you could chose to make some items public and some items only public to members. If it was POCA or PI, they could alocate some small portion of the dues to running it. Once set up it should run itself to some extent. At the same time, a small amount of proof would be required. Lack of proof could always be disputed. It would not be a self sign in; you would have to submit something for verification; even if that info was not public.

Gary

Yes, it would be possible to set up the PI web site to require log-in to access certain areas.

George I think one of the best benifits would be buying and selling cars. You know how many vin and tag issues come up with these cars. To have a print out by some an "Official group" would certainly be helpful when the officer comes by.

Gary

Ok, how long before PI can have this up and running?

One of the functions of a Registrar is to report to the Registry accurate information about a particular car.
Sometimes information about a car is not something that the current owner would want know.
A car that was wrecked, a car that was rebodied or a gruesome event associated with that particular car such as a murder, are some of the negatives that come to mind.
Owners have thier own positions to protect. Independent Registrars shouldn't need to nor should they have an axe to grind.
It could be a bad pratice to have the inmates run the assilum.

Greg,

Doing "this" is too vague.

If PI is going to pay a web designer the money to overhaul the web site, we have to provide the designer more specific instructions than "do this".

So a much more concrete idea of what is wanted must be hammered out. I'm willing to hammer out the design privately amongst the interested parties. BUT, first I would like to see a lot more interest than just the 7 or so people who have posted positively in this topic. Isn't that fair?

I just want to make sure everyone understands, I am for this idea, and have been so for a long time. I want to make sure that we are not stepping on the toes of Ben, Peter, Kjell, Ron, yourself, and any other resgistry owners. And I want to know there is a value amongst the Pantera community to do this, which is why I would like to read a little more positive feedback. I may decide to institute this, even if the feedback isn't there, simply because I believe it needs to be done.

Once we get that far, I'll be looking for a volunteer member of PI to be the keeper of the registry. Then we'll need to hammer out the design. All this before we actually contact a web designer.

So registry owners, can we work together on this?

your friend on the DTBB

The accuracy of what is written can be supplimented by general car info supplied by the registry itself. "Acording to factory documents the following gts were produced".

I have a GT5 body on 1905 which is WELL DONE. I have no idea who the owner was that had all the work done. It is believed to be a Hall Pantera job. I would love to open up an old file where the owner had written "Conversion done at Hall Winter of 19xx. Here are before and after photos". If I list my 434 conversion, wouldn't some one like to see that info 40 years down the road?

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:


So registry owners, can we work together on this?

your friend on the DTBB

George, you can count me in for help where needed.

Ron

I think it is a very good idea and I think that it should be internet based.
I don't see a need for a printed hard copy at this point although I personally have no objections to that either.
I think that this is an oportunity for the Detomaso Community as a whole that should not be passed by.
It certainly cannot hurt the cars. Perhaps a Registered Pantera will help the values because of the documentation. I hope so.
What would be the harm in owning a valuable car?
Last point, if you happen to notice the Shelby Registry, it is a kind of Shelby American Encyclopedia.
It explains the cars to the novice. It tells stories of the developement, it builds upon the "legend".
It is a pedegre. A pedegre is a documented family story.
All of the Detomasos have the things legends are made of. The story needs to be told and supported.

Doug, well said but I do think there is a need for at least a serial number/ownership hard copy with proper credentials. I think it would be helpful for licensing issues where things come into question.

Gary

There is so little profit in hard copies that it is considered a loss leader before it is even completed.
Perhaps that should be put in the hands of PI. It probably wouldn't hurt to have a nice cover with PI in the title being advertised by Motorbooks.
Maybe it could be said that what is good for PI is good for the Pantera community?

Oh I don't think so Doug, with todays printers and punch binders they could be printed as requested without too much cost. If it is club affilated, it could also be a portion of a once a year issue without any problem. I see possibilities not barriers.

quote:

I have a GT5 body on 1905 which is WELL DONE. I have no idea who the owner was that had all the work done. It is believed to be a Hall Pantera job. I would love to open up an old file where the owner had written "Conversion done at Hall Winter of 19xx. Here are before and after photos". If I list my 434 conversion, wouldn't some one like to see that info 40 years down the road?

Would it be possible to get information from the vendors?They have a vast amount of information in their records.Maybe even get them involved in the registery.Then it could be an all pantera thing.It would be nice to get us all working together,because in the end,there is benifit for all.Now, if that is possibe,I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by jwr2968:

quote:

I have a GT5 body on 1905 which is WELL DONE. I have no idea who the owner was that had all the work done. It is believed to be a Hall Pantera job. I would love to open up an old file where the owner had written "Conversion done at Hall Winter of 19xx. Here are before and after photos". If I list my 434 conversion, wouldn't some one like to see that info 40 years down the road?

Would it be possible to get information from the vendors?They have a vast amount of information in their records.Maybe even get them involved in the registery.Then it could be an all pantera thing.It would be nice to get us all working together,because in the end,there is benifit for all.Now, if that is possibe,I don't know.

I have e-mailed HP a couple of times with no response. I figure they are busy with other things going on.

quote:

Originally posted by jwr2968:

Would it be possible to get information from the vendors?

Call Hall Pantera and ask if they know if they did the work.
Gary answers the email. He has been ill.

Considering all the mistakes publish, I agree with you that the best thing was to stop

quote:

I have e-mailed HP a couple of times with no response. I figure they are busy with other things going on

Yes Gary,but all things that are worth it take time.

quote:

Originally posted by Olczyk:
Considering all the mistakes publish, I agree with you that the best thing was to stop

Good that we have one, that knows all the history. LOL!!!

I have documentation on my car since 1977.In 1977 my car was owned by John Jamison from Jamison Custom Corvette of Charleston S.C.Anyone from that area ever heard of him?Had a phone # but,now,is out of service.Don't know anything about my car before then.

quote:

Originally posted by jwr2968:

quote:

I have e-mailed HP a couple of times with no response. I figure they are busy with other things going on

Yes Gary,but all things that are worth it take time.

I thought maybe if I got a chance to visit his place some time I might be able to bend his ear. Timing and tack is everything some times.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
One of the functions of a Registrar is to report to the Registry accurate information about a particular car.
Sometimes information about a car is not something that the current owner would want know.
A car that was wrecked, a car that was rebodied or a gruesome event associated with that particular car such as a murder, are some of the negatives that come to mind.
Owners have thier own positions to protect. Independent Registrars shouldn't need to nor should they have an axe to grind.
It could be a bad pratice to have the inmates run the assilum.

Your post is very intelligent, you clearly understand that a registry is only good if accurate, but how can you be sure that the infos is accurate if theses come from the owner ?
Me, I only concentrate on the racing De Tomaso ( about 50 cars ) and is very very difficult to trace histories and this take a long long time...
Now for 9000 cars will take years and a lots of money...

quote:

Originally posted by pantera874:

quote:

Originally posted by Olczyk:
Considering all the mistakes publish, I agree with you that the best thing was to stop

Good that we have one, that knows all the history. LOL!!!

Thank you for your support, but I feel that your post is too much. I m not Super man, I only known about 50 De Tomaso, which is already a lots for me. Anyway, thank you very much again for your support

quote:

I thought maybe if I got a chance to visit his place some time I might be able to bend his ear. Timing and tack is everything some times.

Thats exactly right.They mostly have better things to do.

how can you be sure that the infos is accurate if theses come from the owner ?
/QUOTE]

A Registrar has to be educated about the vehicles he is handling. Some things won't be known or discovered until enough technical data is collected from all.
Some things are going to be obvious. If a person says that they own an original '71 pushbutton GT5s or and original 68 Pantera, the Registrar should realize that it is likely not true.
It is more difficult if a person states that they have an original factory race car. That CAN be very difficult to prove,
The Shelby Registry took all information that was submitted to it.
Many times questionable information was a technical or typo error by the owner.
Sometimes it indicated a problem such as the serial number was missing because it was a recovered wreck and the serial number was destroyed.
Some times stollen cars were recovered years if not decades latter.
In questions were the owner claimed that it was the only one made by the factory, such as say a factory targa roof, the Registry would report the car as a "claimed factory targa roof" not discrediting the car but not legitamizing it either.

In spec'ing the new POCA web site, we've include plans for a registry. It may be a lot more complicated than it looks. First, it must be staffed with qualified experts to judge the accuracy of the submissions. With the Pantera and its many variants, that ain't easy. Second it has to be structured to capture that info in a consistent manner so that important identifying information is entered.

Take the information first. Take all that you can get.
Time will be necessary for the accuracy. Years and years of time.

quote:

Take the information first. Take all that you can get.
Time will be necessary for the accuracy. Years and years of time

That is good advice.It won't happen over night,or over weeks,or over months.It takes time to authenticate.It would be a work in progress.

excellent idea,i belong to the boss registry,which recives lots and lots of praise for its structor and cntectexs and covers all the basices,from vin,no's to owner,to stolen cars to tech.info,parts and cars for sale,check it out pleasen i think you'll be impress.www.boss registry.com les

quote:

Originally posted by pantera874:
It wasn't a support it was a WARNING !

Roland, thank you again, you are so nice but like I ve told you, I dopn t known everythings and if you really want, go to the factory and scan all the files of all the cars, then put them on the web with free access.

agene i'm sorry but have to disagree,every verifion of a pantera is the member's job,not the registor job! it belongs to you,the potenial registery places what he has on a form and the members(you),pick it apart or congratulate him on his pantera.on the boss registry those guys can really be brutal,but to think one person needs to know everything,thats what your there for as a group you guys know every little thing and trick,and supply advise about pantera's,just make up a form the owner is to fill out,with the info.on the pantera and about himself and were(generally he lives) and post with a picture if possible.name,compt.name,state,city,occuption,age,job title, e-mail address pantera:what been done to it and what your plans on doing,mileage,privious owners(if remembers) date you registered with form,all the registors job is to list them by date and vin# in order along with the form he filled out.ex:les thayer,LT.boss,lesthayer@charter.net,wi.madison,retired.your pantera,vin.no.,color(org),new purchase,resto.plans:road race,drag race,shows,cruisies,just fun. simple,les.

quote:

www.boss registry.com les

Boss 302 or 429 registry?