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A veteran's view

4nford4nford"Live wrong and Perspire"
Someone sent me this. An amazing man with a straightforward point of view:

This venerable and much honored WW II vet is well known in Hawaii
for his seventy-plus years of service to patriotic organizations and causes
all over the country. A humble man without a political bone in his body,
he has never spoken out before about a government official, until now.
He dictated this letter to a friend, signed it and mailed it to the president.

Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate. Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.

So here goes.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.


You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
" We're no longer a Christian nation"
" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even
announced to the world," America is mean-
spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching
that nonsense to 23 generations of our
war dead buried all over the globe who
died for no other reason than to free a
whole lot of strangers from tyranny and hopelessness.)


I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War? I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.

Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue . You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was putting up a fight? You don't mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president. You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy. That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.


And I sure as hell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle.

Sincerely,
Harold B. Estes

When a 95 year old hero of the "the Greatest Generation"
stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it
to him to send his words to as many Americans as
we can. Please pass it on.

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sickcatsickcatMember
Its a view from 1 mans eye's, we all seem to forget, that in this country that has all race's, all served during our darkest hours of world events and many although they honorably served were not treated well. lets not be such hypocrites and pretend that it is not so. We have many skeletons that we the US of A are not proud of and because of that and our President being of a race that we Have Not treated fairly, is only looking at our country from a different perspective and pointing out our short comings.

Our President is looking and talking from a different perspective and because of that we assume the worst, Give him a chance, after all George W pretty much handed him a bucket of "SHIT".
plt-1plt-1Member
I was just thinking the same thing when I noticed your reply..lol.. Don't make it so easy for me Larry... Paul, Tampa, Florida. Cat #4201... There ya go Larry. Next subject??... Any liberal position you have and I will show that it is hypocrital and Liberals almost certainly have no credibility on the subject. Any topic, come on... Please don't count off for spelling... I went to a lefty public school... lol.. Paul, Tampa...
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Paul,

When you attempt to set down the debate rules by saying:
quote:
Try to stick to the factual, intelect side of the issue

And label your opinions as:
quote:
nothin' personal


But nonetheless started off with these gems:

quote:
dumb ass lefties (have no) honor and integrity

quote:
lefties are(not)good Americans


It would seem any efforts I could make to refute your beliefs would be a waste of my time.

But I will make one observation and pose one question to you-

I have never, nor will I ever, purchase a foreign-name automobile (save the Pantera Wink)

I believe the second (after our homes) largest purchase most of us ever make should see that money going to a firm with headquarters here in the USA.

I've posed this question to many. I've heard all the usual excuses, but I don't care what bad experience you've had with your Ford-GM-Mopar. I don't care about your views on value versus quality. I don't care about the foreign-made content of a Ford-GM-Mopar vehicle.

While the above issues may have valid talking points, the bottom line is this:

For your county, the best outcome for your car buying dollars is to keep those dollars here at home. We ask our soldiers to sacrifice their lives, why won't our citizens at least pledge to contribute their dollars?

So Paul, since you are obviously not a Liberal and thus by default must be a "Good American", have you always put your car-buying dollars where your mouth is?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Larry
plt-1plt-1Member
Larry, Thank you for responding. As to the issue of personal slights- I really was refering to "an unarmed man" as being more personal than a generalization. But, piont well taken. Indeed you are correct that I am not a liberal unless the subject was wildlife, then I could be considered a moderate. So, just clarify your position, (even though you contradicted yourself in the first sentence witch kinda' makes you sound hypocrtical and this whole "car for your country" thing seem a little self serving, in an attempt to bolster your positon. whew ) OK, your saying your only a good American if you buy American Cars???.. Is that all you have Larry???... Do you hold these parameters trus in all aspcts of your life ( See Integrity )... Can you admit that you don't really hold your self to the standard you would hold others ( see Honor)... I'm not really sure what piont your making??.. But, I have both Chevy and a toyo. But, I don't see the intellect in your piont? Why is this a dumb as thing??... Do you have another position a bit heavier??...or we can continue this one if you help me... Thanks for responding...
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Paul,

quote:
But, I have both Chevy and a toyo.

That Toyota money went to Toyota headquarters in Japan. Thus your money helped support the economy of Japan, not the nation you are so proud of.

I thought the point I was making was pretty clear:

Keeping your car buying money here in the USA helps the USA economy. Sending it overseas helps that overseas country's economy. Case closed.

quote:
Can you admit that you don't really hold your self to the standard you would hold others

Is this in reference to a 37 year old car, sold by Ford through LM dealers, with profits going to Dearborn? That purchase money of 1972 stayed home, and so did my 2002 purchase money. The standard of keeping my car purchase money here in the USA remains intact.
quote:
Do you have another position a bit heavier??

If the economic health of the USA is not a 'heavy' enough position to discuss in terms of being a "Good American", especially in light of our current economy, just what pray tell is of more importance?

Larry
plt-1plt-1Member
Well Larry... My piont is that the same can be said about my toyo??.. I bought it at an american dealership, from an American saleman, 15 years ago?.. It would be fine w/me if it were never imported... I really think you are reaching on this one... How about this, what was your position on the deficit during the last admin?... What was your position on Haliburton when aledged to have been connected to the last admin... It just seems to me that libs seem to accept behaivior for themselves that they do not accept in others... Like your Italian car for instance. The fact that you have an imported car pretty much removes any credibility you might have had on the subject, and makes your statement look hypocritical and self serving??... You know, the whole selective outrage thing. It's just not a good example... Try again, I'll wait
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
We can always count on you Dennis! Big Grin

Nice posts Andy!

Welcome to the Pub Harry, thread-drifts allowed!

As far as the economics of your purchases go, it can get pretty grey (or gray?). Is a US-built Toyota any worse than a Korean-built Chevy Aveo? Buying pretty much anything at Wal*Mart results in a lot of $$ going to China. It's a global market and it's not possible to avoid that reality even with the best intentions. Have you tried to purchase a Made-in-USA TV lately? Cell-phone? DVD player? housewares? Even IF the average north American (and I include Canadians here) would work cheaply enough to make many of those items affordable, we wouldn't want the environmental implications of many of the factories on our soil. I think that as long as most of us (yes, I include my hypocritical self here) insist on over-consumption and living beyond our means (not just financially), we're ultimately doomed. But, if Nostradamus or the Mayans were right, who cares anyway!

Here's some more leftist fuel for the fire:
http://sosvids.s3.amazonaws.com/StoryOfStuff.mov

Now I'm gonna go have a nice domestic beer and calm myself down.

Mark
plt-1plt-1Member
Larry, Please try not to just dismiss the issue by saying personal things like "you just don't get it"... I'm sure I don't get it??... Well Larry, do you shop at walmart??.. Do you give your money to the red commies..lol.. Really, you have not bolstered your position in any meaningful way??.. "Follow the money"... "you just don't get it"... Should I follow the money with this admin??.. or acorn??.. or wallmart??.. Again, you really are not making a great argument for liberalism. Shine the same light on all things, judge all things the same way. BTW Larry, I heard it's illeagal to burn wood in your fireplace in CA.. Is that true??
plt-1plt-1Member
Really you guys... I don't want to start any trouble. Larry has helped me in the past and I won't hesitate to return the favor some time. But, many lefty people depend heavily in my view, to the fact that their positions will be accepted without question. When intellectually challenged ( I certainly am not the guy for that job) it seems there is really nothing or little there?? I welcome a friendly debate by all to try to sway me away from traditional American values and explain to me why liberal progessive is better??.. I'm just tired of "one liner this" and "one liner that"... It's easy to be a wolf among sheep, Lets see you libs jump in with the wolves.... I still maintain, no liberal position can withstand five questions before it is shown to be hypocritical, non credible or to have previously failed. Please edgumicate me....
accobraaccobraMember
Politics is such a waste of time ... the Idealogical left and right wing position have swayed so far off course that they are all tangled up in Bullshi%. We need lefty - politcal reform but we also need righty - conservative spending. We are in trouble because both sides are shovelling it in their pockets and taking care of their own. If it was so easy the HEALTH CARE debate would be a done deal .. but even the DEM's will not let it pass and they are the majority. Proves my point ... they are all tangled up in Bullshi%. ... thats where this post ...went ..LOL

ROn
davidbdavidbMember
That’s right, Ron.

It is a very complex issue that can be owned by lefties and righties alike. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 95 yr old veteran or anything he is saying. God bless him. But short snips and sound bites, although they do give us shivers, usually oversimplify what is really a very complex problem.

It’s hard to imagine that any true American President or administration or politician alive today can or should really pay attention only to America, to the detriment of the rest of the world and the billions that inhabit it.

It has nothing to do with language, race, religion, color, lifestyle or political leaning. We can’t simply concentrate only on what’s good for us – in a vacuum – because such short term thinking will ultimately get us into trouble. There is ample evidence of this in the past 2000 or so years of history.

There is nothing un-American in trying stuff out and considering options that benefit the rest of the planet too. It is precisely this kind of inventiveness that has made us the most influential and most emulated society.

And another thing. Unless you are an American Indian or Eskimo, where do you think we all came from? We are the descendants, in one way or another, of those who came from all the other countries that some people think we shouldn’t care about now. So actually, caring for the rest of the globe is really caring for our long lost relatives. A very proud and all-American trait we shouldn’t deny ourselves.

If we could all just look down from a few hundred miles up in the sky, we’d see that we are all in it together. And if we acted like we knew this, America and the rest of the world would be a better place.

Ok. I’m going to hug a tree.

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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
BTW Larry, I heard it's illegal to burn wood in your fireplace in CA.. Is that true??

Only if you're a Conservative and are watching Fox News. LOL

Seriously, you have heard correctly.

Not sure of all the spots this may be true, but I know I live in such a spot. Central Valley has the potential of making the LA basin smog experience look like just a minor-league effort.

Predominate winds are from up north, pushing everything south to the mountains that block off the bottom of the valley. No place to clean out things. Small particulates are the real bad-boy in the mix, and wood burning really adds to this mix. There is an Air Resources Board that, based on current air quality measurements and projected weather, post daily the yea or nay for that day regarding whether we can legally burn wood in our fireplaces.

Restricting wood burning is only part of the regulations in place to try and keep things under control.

Not too much of a real issue for us flatlanders in the cities, but the folks up in the hills often have no central heating, and rely on one fireplace insert to heat the whole home.

Regular statistics for around the Fresno county area have at least 1 out of 3 kids suffering from asthma. The problem is real, the potential for it to get worse is real.

So the restrictions may seem outlandish, but are based on real concerns.

Larry
4nford4nford"Live wrong and Perspire"
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
We can always count on you Dennis! Big Grin

Nice posts Andy!

Welcome to the Pub Harry, thread-drifts allowed!

As far as the economics of your purchases go, it can get pretty grey (or gray?). Is a US-built Toyota any worse than a Korean-built Chevy Aveo? Buying pretty much anything at Wal*Mart results in a lot of $$ going to China. It's a global market and it's not possible to avoid that reality even with the best intentions. Have you tried to purchase a Made-in-USA TV lately? Cell-phone? DVD player? housewares? Even IF the average north American (and I include Canadians here) would work cheaply enough to make many of those items affordable, we wouldn't want the environmental implications of many of the factories on our soil. I think that as long as most of us (yes, I include my hypocritical self here) insist on over-consumption and living beyond our means (not just financially), we're ultimately doomed. But, if Nostradamus or the Mayans were right, who cares anyway!

Here's some more leftist fuel for the fire:
http://sosvids.s3.amazonaws.com/StoryOfStuff.mov

Now I'm gonna go have a nice domestic beer and calm myself down.

Mark


Actually, it's a team effort. I post, Larry comments and everyone gets wound up! It's our way to get the board active. Good work Larry!
O osofastMember
quote:
Actually, it's a team effort. I post, Larry comments and everyone gets wound up! It's our way to get the board active. Good work Larry!

Thanks guys I check in almost daily ....and lately the board has been really dead.

quote:
If it was so easy the HEALTH CARE debate would be a done deal ..

So true...I watched a special last week on the healthest nation in the world (Japan)the government totally control the heath care system. From the rates charged to the...well everything.
But my point is the costs people see for medical care is so cheap...$95 for a MRI, the average time in a doctors office is less than 20 minutes. People stop into the doctors office just to get there blood pressure check( Thats a on average for the nation of 4 minutes to get this check done) If a doctor or group of doctors decide they want to get greedy and overcharge for a procedure to make money, the government will lower the amount they can charge the next year for a penalty...thats a nationwide penalty.
maybe the US government is using the wrong model???
Jeff
cybomancybomanMember
quote:
Originally posted by OSOFAST:
quote:
If it was so easy the HEALTH CARE debate would be a done deal ..

So true...I watched a special last week on the healthest nation in the world (Japan)the government totally control the heath care system. From the rates charged to the...well everything.
But my point is the costs people see for medical care is so cheap...$95 for a MRI, the average time in a doctors office is less than 20 minutes. People stop into the doctors office just to get there blood pressure check( Thats a on average for the nation of 4 minutes to get this check done) If a doctor or group of doctors decide they want to get greedy and overcharge for a procedure to make money, the government will lower the amount they can charge the next year for a penalty...thats a nationwide penalty.
maybe the US government is using the wrong model???
Jeff

The ironic part about that is we set Japan up with our capitalists systems after WWII. It looks like they "did what we said, and not what we did"!

Michael
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
Since we've moved on to health care (now this should get some sparks flying)...

How is it possible that the US health care costs are almost DOUBLE per capita when compared to virtually ANY 1st-world country? Is it POSSIBLE that there is a better, more efficient way to manage health care than to leave it to the private sector? I'm a fervent capitalist (and independent business owner), but even I can see that paying a huge amount to create a lot of rich healthcare administrators doesn't seem like it would be the best way. Isn't it normally the case that when you have the largest market share your prices are lower? Keep in mind that many of the countries that pay less per capita are providing excellent (or perhaps somewhat less) care to ALL their citizens, not just the ones who have a great corporate plan.

OK, my flame suit is on now. Big Grin

Mark
hustlerhustlerMember
Great de-railment, I'll help. I agree and disagree with some of the comments in the letter. Globalization will take a lot of time because of the political, religious, and ethical barriers we have to pass through. Obama thinks he is going to jumpstart this as the new global leader, but only conveys that he is incredibly naive when it comes to diplomacy. Seems he's just enjoying a nice little world tour before his 4 years is out at this point. It appears he doesn't understand how to use any leverage to gain commitments from foreign nations and expects the united states to carry the burden for being the global watchdog. China enjoys improving its nation with little responsibility to the world as a collective.

Iran will get nukes because the UN can't even agree on when to take a shit, let alone bilateral sanctions. Chinese business is too heavily entrenched in Iran for them to step up and be a global police watchdog. They just don't care, it's all about money, not ethical obligations.

Just watch, after China gets enough stolen technology, they will either boot out multinational corporations or drive them out with dumping, and everyone will be whining about China at the WTO lol. Just as the Western Powers sphere of influence has affected other regions, China's will continue to grow. Except it will be a mix of communism and capitalism. It will be an interesting journey for Gen X'ers as the world changes and people start making themselves accountable and stop blaming history for all of their problems, assuming we can do that. We need some real leaders with vision to step up though, and not puppets who pander to the uneducated like Obama, using false promises, and playing the blame game. Yeah most people realize Bush put us in the hole fighting two wars that will ultimately leave the region in the same state it was before (hating america regardless). We know Obama got handed shit. We knew whoever took over was going to get shit. But we don't need to hear how all Obama's false promises that got him voted in are the fault of Bush, because that is complete utter bullshit. The only thing Obama is educated in is being a professional politician. The degree in manipulating people to get what you want. I really have no faith in his ability to really calculate the implications his reaching domestic policies will have on american taxpayers for years to come. He's taking a big gamble on this healthcare legislation, and regardless of the result he and the rest of congress will be sitting pretty with their fine benefits payed for by the wonderful american taxpayers. /rant
robertvegasrobertvegasMember
I rarely chime in on political issues, but this thread has caught my attention. My post is not directed toward anyone that has commented.

Whether it be the global economy or health care, I think the problem is selfishness. From both sides.

I know it is hard for the left and right to work together when they are separated by different ideology, but I feel they are now using that as an excuse. Many politicians have simply stopped caring about us. There is no reason why each side can't bend on one issue in order to push forward on another issue. It is all about winning, and money, and reelection, but rarely about helping, representing or even doing what is right.

I would say "vote them all out", but all we will be presented with at election time is more of the same. I have given up on the carrier politicians, but not on Obama.

Even though I am relatively conservative on most issues, and Obama isn't my guy, I think he must want to do the right thing. If for no other reason than to meet his goal of being the next Lincoln. I am a small business owner (small design firm, and the t-shirt company) and I must admit things have been rough. I have laid off half my staff, and moved to smaller office space. I have cut services and saved money where I could. I may not be Microsoft, or a big bank, but I hope politicians start caring about me, because there are a lot of businesses like mine out there. Don't bother blaming it on Bush, or the Democrat congress, because blame doesn't matter to us, The People. I don't want Obama to fail, I want him to kick butt, get congress in line and help us.

For the record, I own the Pantera, a Porsche and a VW. They were all purchased used, so I think all my money stayed in the US. :-)

- Robert
George PGeorge PAdmin.
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quote:

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The subject of Dennis' thread was the comments by the President and the old soldier's viewpoint. A discussion of the Presidents comments or the soldier's viewpoint regarding them would have been very mature and healthy. The goal should be to share thoughts and learn, not to insult the intelligence of another human being, not to make someone else look stupid. To turn this into a left verses right debate is against the terms of service. To refer to the liberal & democratic members of this community as "dumb ass" will never be tolerated. Nobody joined the forums expecting to ever receive such treatment here. It is the policy of the forums that every member here, regardless of political view point is equally intelligent and deserving of respect. If a member cannot abide by the spirit of that statement while they visit here, they should consider finding a forum that is a better match for them.

I want to thank Sick Cat for standing back & not engaging when he was flammed for his comment. That is appreciated Mark.

Since this thread was derailed so early, I'm gonna lock it up. I invite everyone to review the terms of service.

George
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