Adding 10"x15" to the rear

The best size for the front, in a BFG Radial T/A, is 215/60-15. Anything wider gets too tall. It will work on an 8" wide wheel but it's not ideal.

This is a start. There are a multitude of posts regarding your questions. May be easier to do a search on this forum.

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...heel-and-tire-survey

IMHO, as your future plans include upgrading to larger sized replicas, it would seem a rather unnecessary and ....large.... expense to obtain, restore as needed, 15 inch wheels and tires.

The cost of the 15 inch set will undoubtably be much more than the cost for the replicas

If your finances are not a concern, then go for it.

Larry

As Larry mentioned original 10" Campi's are pricey IF you can find them. Last I saw they were around $1500 apiece.

I'd like to find a set of originals but there are none for sale that I know of.

Since I am forced to look at clones, I need to make sure I am getting wheels for a narrow body car. I appreciate the chart below, but with out a reference drawing it only implies a wheel center line and suggests a positive off-set of 13mm, or an "estimated" 150.5mm from the inside rim edge to the bolt face.

Being new to the Pantera world, I don't know if campagnolo ever made a 10"x15" wheel for the narrow body cars, and then made a different off-set wheel for the  later flared GTS cars.  Anybody know?

Thanks to all!

yes Camp did make a 10x15 that fits the narrow body car.  Like it was stated above they are very expensive.  The last set I sold 10 years ago I got $2,800.  Now they are at least double that.

If you really need this I suggest you ask one of the members to measure the backspacing of a factory 10x15 narrow body for you and that should get you there.

For the benefit of all, would one of our esteemed members please measure an original 10"x15" campagnolo wheel made for the narrow body Pantera? Ideally this would include, the overall width of the wheel rim from outside edge to outside edge and the inside/backside distance from the inside wheel edge to the  wheels bolt face. Very hard to get accurate measurements with a mounted tire, so estimates might have to do. If someone has a bare wheel to measure that would be great!

Thanks again to all! 

Congratulations and welcome to Pantera ownership!

The Marvic wheels are a direct copy of originals down to being sand cast magnesium. The Roin are aluminum and I believe to original specs. You will spend roughly the same for Marvic as a 40 year old original set with unknown history and condition. The Campi wheels came in variants through the years many owners don't even realize they have mismatched wheels. You might want to consider purchasing a full set of 8's and 10's.

There's a great campi wheel article written by Mike Drew. I think available on the POCA site, you should consider joining, the access to documentation and old magazines, newsletters is worth the price alone.

'Clone's' are more what I would refer to as aftermarket aluminum wheels typically in 17" to provide a wider tire choice. If you really want this look then I'd bypass the 15" altogether.

PS. I think you will be bitterly disappointed in BFG's as a tire choice.

Julian

I second Joules's opinion that you will be disappointed with the BFG's.  I had a set on the back of my fastback.  They were great with the old low powered engine.  The new stroker engine made the car unsafe to drive due to lack of traction.  I recently installed drag radials and boy what a difference.  The car tracks straight and is much safer to drive.  That being said, if you have any sort of power over the stock engine I don't think you will achieve very good traction with the BFG's.  I run Kumo 315/35/17 on the rear of my pantera.  The traction is very good except for when its cold outside and the tires are cold.  Then I have to be careful coming out of turns.

The only rational reason to add wider wheels & tires to a Pantera is to enhance cornering traction. It is unreasonably expensive just for posturing at doughnut shops. If you come across a pair of magnesium 10" x 15" Campagnolo wheels, be aware that the 'GTS' referred to in their description is a narrow body Euro-sold Pantera essentially identical to the cars sold by Ford in the U.S.  DeTomaso was empowered by contract with Ford to sell Panteras everywhere in the World EXCEPT in North America. He chose to advertise all his narrow-body cars as 'Pantera GTS', up through about 1989. The Euro GTS could be factory-optioned up to a model sold there as the 'GTS/Gr-3'; a license-able semi-street-racer used in lower echelon International racing & hill climbing; a true Italian hot-rod, kind of like a real Shelby GT350 Mustang in the U.S..

To further confuse things, there were 138 North American cars built 1973-1974 as 'GTS' that used some of the cosmetic attachments available in Europe from DeTomaso, but none of the performance features. For instance, 10" rear wheels and ventilated brake rotors were not offered by Ford in the U.S. Those few cars are the only Panteras that display 'GT' in the alphanumeric serial number.

One of the performance parts available in Europe thru the '70s were 10" x 15" Campagnolo wheels with 285-50 x 15 Pirelli tires (widest size available at the time; 295s and 305s came later), the original 8" rear wheels being moved to the front. Along with 10" wide rear wheels were a larger dia rear 'GTS' anti-sway bar and rebuildable adjustable damping Koni shocks. Some cars' rear uprights used a double-row inner ball bearing with the 10" wheels. This is not necessary for street use but adding the rest of the parts mentioned is a very good idea!  Most regular Panteras in good condition will exceed 160 mph; the Euro GTS/Gr-3 is substantially faster and has better handling. There was once a 12 pg Factory Option GTS Parts List available. Equivalents of all these old parts are available today through various Pantera vendors.

Balanced to the larger rear tires, 245-50 x 15" front tires are the widest practical tires that will fit without substantial body mods. Even then, small hammer-clearancing will be needed on most Pantera front fenders, especially if the coil-over spacers are removed (used to raise the cars for DOT headlight & front bumper height requirements- no longer enforced), and if more caster is added to front wheel alignment for high speed stability. IMHO, 245-50 fronts & 295-50 rears (along with other parts) perfectly balance the car for 'vigorous' street and light track driving. But beware- upgrading a Pantera is a $lippery $lope to step on!

So that 295/50-15 tire is 26.6" dia. with a stock ZF gearing 3200 rpm is 85 mph, change the 5th ratio to a 0.642 and you'd be going 93 mph, the 0.609 and you'd be at 99 mph!

The stock 0.846 4th and 0.705 5th aren't really far enough apart, it stands out when you look at a graphical representation of shift points and rpm drop, the tall 5th really does make for a great overdrive, if you have taller tires all the better.

So there are different offsets (backspace) on the 10" wheels?

I don't know about the original wheels, but in the aftermarket Marvic makes one with -8.7mm off-set and Roin makes one with -12.3mm offset. Not a big difference, but they are not the same.

The only thing that there is probably more controversy or even disagreement on then tires is a camshaft?

If you are outdriving BFG's on the street then probably the car shouldn't even be on the street or you should be personally restricted to just driving a race car on a race track, period.

I'd recommend 225-50-15's on the front even with removed spring spacers.

I've got Pirelli P7's on my car. If you want to talk about a crap, slick, hard running tire, look no further. Under 40 degrees F, they turn into banana skins. You can spin them like slicks doing a water burn out.

That has to be the worst overpriced tire on the planet.

Avons are probably going to be the best performing tires but one of the more expensive.

I have no idea what you would need to have on the car in Europe to be legal to go a zillion miles an hour on any road under any conditions.

I mean like if you work two miles from home, you definitely NEED to go 200 mph at the very least, right?

I should point out that before the advent of the V and W tires, the BFG's were being used often as "wet racing tires" here by more then a few race teams.

That maybe they are a little slick in the wet is simply an indication that in the rain, YOU NEED TO SLOW DOWN!

YIKES! How did you guys ever get drivers licenses? Do you have some sort of "legacy" consideration over there that they automatically have to give you a license because your parents had them?

Thanks to all for your knowledge and thoughts! I'm now satisfied with the off-set on the available 10"x15" wheels in the aftermarket, and the BFG tire sizes for the front. All should fit the car well., and will be a fun upgrade.

Thanks again!

I am running 215/60-15 and 295/50-15 front and rear BFG tires on 8" and 10" rims, which I think is what you are after.  I like the stock appearing stance, and the 10” rims fill-out the rear wheel wells nicely.  The BFGs are perfectly suitable for the street, are readily available as a set and won’t break the bank.  If you want to achieve a classic look and have no illusions that you are driving a race car, I recommend them.  The road to more and more extreme chassis and braking modifications often starts with large rims and sticky tires, not that there is anything wrong with that  You can always swap-out rims and speed rated tires for track days.

My car is a 74L with no body or clearance modifications; there is no issue with tire clearance running these sizes.

bigblockfan, I agree with all your points! Thanks for posting your tire sizes and the picture! I'm running 205/60 BFG's on 7" on the front and they just look a bit too small. The 225/60's rubbed and I over-corrected to 205's. When the 10" rears arrive I'll move the 8" to the front and get some 215's.

By the way, I'm a big block fan too:

@fordismyboss posted:

bigblockfan, I agree with all your points! Thanks for posting your tire sizes and the picture! I'm running 205/60 BFG's on 7" on the front and they just look a bit too small. The 225/60's rubbed and I over-corrected to 205's. When the 10" rears arrive I'll move the 8" to the front and get some 215's.

By the way, I'm a big block fan too:

Before I went to 17s-18s I ran BFGs 225/50 on 15x7s and 305/50 on 15x8 with out any rubbing issues on My 73. Not sure BFG makes the 305s any long?

No, they don't make those sizes anymore. Yes, many limitations with BFG's, but I used to run them back-in-the-day and I want that raised white letter look.

I'll also get a set of 17" Campy clones and run Pirelli or Michelin after having fun with the 15" set-up.

I have a set just sitting around.  I would be open to selling the four matching ones as a set...8's &10's.  Make me a reasonable offer if interested.