Barn Pantera worth?

Man, sad to see a Pantera in that shape! I know others will chime in, is there a asking price? When trying figure cost to repair, what ever $$$ amount you come up with Double it? Looks like there is lots to redo as in everything. As for 30/35k there are some nice drivers out there. Take your time an look at all of them you can. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, I just think for 30/35K you could find a nice driver you could at least drive while make changes to your personal taste.
Good Luck
Keep us informed

Possibly you can find some local Pantera folks that can take a look at the car. I am not an expert, but even if you are going to do a lot of the work yourself you can easily drop $25K + on this car. And as Cuvee mentioned you can usually double your costs with un expected repairs.
Good Luck and welcome.

I'm with Cuvee,

The car is worth saving, but it will be a lot of hours and several fists full of money to do it.

I would say it's probably a $15-$20K car maximum.

Cooling system: $1.5K
Exhaust: $1K
Engine rebuild: $3—10K
Trans: $3—5K (plus 6 months wait)
Windshield: <$1K
Steering wheel: nice non-stock $300 (stock rarely available)
Carpet: $600—$1K
Repaint: $4—10K
All the stuff you don't know about yet: $5K Trust me, there will be LOTS of stuff that you can't see yet on a car that has been sitting that long in a barn.

Hours: estimate 1000 if you do most of it yourself and want a really nice car at the end and are really handy mechanically.

It'll be a great way to spend your time and just think of the money you'll save not going to movies, restaurants, vacations etc...

I hope you go for it, but DO NOT pay $30K for it. I would offer $12K and promise that it will re-live it's former glory as your mom's cousin would want. I doubt if on the open market it would get past the mid-to-high teens as-is.

Good luck!

You say you want to restore this car to a $30-35K level, which as Cuvee says gives you quite a lot of Pantera on the open market at the moment.

In my humble opinion this car needs a complete and total tear down and reassembly. That is the only way you are going to be sure to get a roadworthy Pantera at the end of you quest. The pictures paint a sad story of neglect and don't tell what's underneath, but I see a lot of rust issues lurking in there, especially after being locked up in MA for 25 yrs. The brakes will be shot as will many other parts. All bushings and hoses should be automatically replaced.

The question I would ask is do you truly want a project Pantera for what it is? i.e. a hobby with the satisfaction of rebuilding a piece of history. Do you have the inclination, time, patience and space to rebuild this car? If the answers above are all a resounding 'YES' then go for it and good luck, but don't spend time counting the $$ you spend, because it is a hobby and not an investment for financial gain.

If on the other hand you are the type that is itching to get in and drive a Pantera, then despite the family connection and whether or not you get a good deal I would recommend you just pass it up no matter what the price, take your $$ and buy that 30-35KK Pantera that you can jump in and drive today.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Be very careful. I bought a car in good shape and fixed a lot of things that AREN'T on your list, but will be eventually. They are superficial compared to the car you are looking at.

I spent $15,000 on:

Check motor compression (perfect, runs great)
Motor tune up (new plugs etc.)
New distributor, cap, rotor
New carburetor
New electric fuel pump
Check ZF (already safety wired)
Change all fluids
New hoses
New filters
New fuel lines
New belt
Remove, clean and lube seat rails
Front and back wheel alignment
Add steering lock (front tires rubbing)
Check all tires for leaks and rebalance (need new tires)
New tires (expensive for a widebody)
Fix minor fluid leaks
Weld plates to fix prior towing damage
Replace rear engine lid rubber seal – adjust latch
Fix small dent – top driver-side fender
Fix front air dam cracks – blend paint
Flush evaporator and expansion valve on AC
Two new 1350 cfm fans and new relay
New stainless coolant pipes
New thermostat
New water pump
New battery
Clean and tighten all fuses
New flasher switch (so turn signals work)
New alternator and voltage regulator
Get headlights to open (and aim lights)
Get horn to work
Get AC fan switch to work
Pay extra for wild motor to pass smog
Window tint
Put original seats back in

I appologize for the three or four times I have posted this list, but I am trying to do the same favor that others did for me when I was thinking about getting a car that needed serious work. Because I'm not a mechanic I couldn't do the work myself, so the Pantera community kept me from getting in way over my head, and I am eternally grateful.

I bought a good car for $35K (got a good price because the guy's wife didn't know he had the car for four years and he was having a hard time selling it) and put $15K into it - and it still needs a lot of little things.

R.

quote:

Originally posted by Cuvee:
Man, sad to see a Pantera in that shape!

Thanks all for your opinions.

Curvee I couldn't have have said it better. Shuch a shame. The car was bought new by a kid in the USAF. My mom's cousin (also in the USAF) bought it 6 mos. later because the orig. owner was getting sent overseas. The car was never treated like a Pantera. It is fairly obvious that it was treated as "just a car" by a kid who didn't really care about it.

The car has some sentimental value to me in that when I was 9 I got a ride in this car and remember it vividly some 35 ys later. My Uncle bought the car in 1980 & moved it to Mass. with hopes of restoring it someday. I always expressed an interest in the car feeling confident that he'd never get the time to restore it. He recently sold his large property, has no place left to store it and knows that if there's any hope at all of the car staying in the family it's with me. I'm fairly mecnanical & have dabbled with Camaro's & Chevelles (I know, ick! Chevys!) for years so I know well that if I come up with an estimated restoration cost I need to double that!

I told my Uncle that I'd look the car over & make him an offer. He's mentioned $15K which even before I started looking at the car I felt was high but I know I don't know Panteras that well and need to seek advice from those that do. Unfortunately if we can come to an agreement I know that it will be a few years & fist fulls of dollars before I will be able to put the car on the road.

I mainly want other Pantera owners' opinions on it's value as it sits so I don't over pay for the car. Honestly if I had the $35K in my pocket to spend on a car I know that I'd need to weigh the sentimentality vs. the practicality of the deal.
Thanks and keep the opinions coming.

RobertVegas is right on the money.I had a similiar experience and bought what was a solid car and did the same thing RV did. In the end I have a really nice driver but not a show car. Good Luck!

I'm thinking I would offer $10,000 however it still would not be a great investment, and most cars are not. You would be way better off buying a running car that has been updated dollar for dollar.

But I can relate with the feelings that you have for this car and only recommend that you get under that car with an ice pick and check the frame and body in all the typical known rust locations. Major rust repairs would make this car a parts car unless you have the ability and time to do the repairs yourself.

Visit the Pantera Place for great information on corrosion.
http://www.panteraplace.com/page57.htm

keep in mind if you bought it and restored it to it's former glory, while it will cost more than a driver pantera, you will have a brand new car, that won't need touching, so while you will not profit from it, you will be proud of what you bought, and to me THAT is the investment. Also this way you can do it the way you like.

I believe there are really two answers to your questions of value.

You’ve taken a very practical approach by trying to back into price by subtracting the major costs from your targeted $30-$35k. IMO, with this approach, the car is worth $10k max and even at this price, it assumes you will do the vast majority of the work yourself, the sheet metal is as solid as you suggest, and whole bunch of other optimistic assumptions. There’s usually only one way you can miss on estimating value with this approach because there is always more effort needed then you can see on a car such as this. I can see from the pictures that the front valance looks to be rotted, which is fairly typical, but as has been stated, a car in this condition needs every functional system in the drive train, suspension, brakes, and cooling system pulled down to full state of disassembly and subsequently restored or replaced in order to be a safe and reliable driver. The interior is there but likely long gone as the odor would remind you everytime you sat down in the car. Any evidence of rodent damage? Once you go as far as this, you may as well consider full restoration. Invite a local Pantera expert to see the car and I suspect you will conclude your uncle would have to give the car to you in order for you to have a shot at achieving your sunk cost goal. If you’re broadly skilled in auto restoration and don’t value your time, perhaps a different story.

The other answer to value is selling the car at auction (such as ebay) as there will always be an overly optimistic prospective buyer, or someone with the skill and time but not the scratch, that will pay $15k or more for that car. Sadly, from a monetary perspective, the maximum value is likely as a parts car, which would be a shame but it’s just a facts of life statement. What price do you assign to the sentimental value? Compared to buying a $30-$35k Pantera, I would guess sentimentality to be at least $10k, either at your cost or your uncles. How bad does your uncle need the money or desire the car to stay in the family?

In the end, Pantera ownership is for those who admire the car and not for the brokers and opportunists. I actually like it that way because you consistently find a whole different group of people than the Barret Jackson crowd; real car guys. Want to join the club?

Good luck,
Kelly

As far as I'm concerned if there would be any sentimentality attached to this car by your uncle, why is it in this condition?? When you care about something you look after it. Not more than 10k and if he really does care, he will let you have it. Rob6145

The is another thing to keep in mind:

When you buy a old car and has put a lot of time restoring it, you know what you got in the end! Buying a car in the $ 30.000 range is not an guarantee for a problem -free Pantera!

There is a lot of old cars with some really bad work on them..

quote:

Originally posted by Odin:
When you buy a old car and has put a lot of time restoring it, you know what you got in the end! Buying a car in the $ 30.000 range is not an guarantee for a problem -free Pantera!

There is a lot of old cars with some really bad work on them..

Good point Odin. I am very aware that buying a $30K car could very well mean $30K up front and possibly (& likely) many problems to sort out at an additional cost.

If I can buy the car reasonable & make it a hobby more than a project I can achieve a few goals.
1.) Keep the car in the family & make Uncle smile.
2.) Enjoy the "hobby" of the restoration and be proud of the finished car.
3.) In the end have a car that I know and has no hidden problems.
4.) Own, drive and keep a car that is for the "Real Car Guys" as Panterror puts it.

quote:

Originally posted by rob6145:
why is it in this condition?? When you care about something you look after it.

Rob,
My uncle got the car in this condition. I feel he rescued it from being crushed. Can you imagine the toll of another 10 yrs of abuse from the previous owner would have taken? It would have been long gone by today.

Though he never had the time to do anything with the car, he kept it on life support so to speak!

quote:

If I can buy the car reasonable & make it a hobby more than a project I can achieve a few goals.
1.) Keep the car in the family & make Uncle smile.
2.) Enjoy the "hobby" of the restoration and be proud of the finished car.
3.) In the end have a car that I know and has no hidden problems.
4.) Own, drive and keep a car that is for the "Real Car Guys" as Panterror puts it.

Now you're talking. Now after your induction to the club is completed, we'll talk about addiction counseling

If you could get it for 10K it would be a great start for a ground up restoration. Any more I think the cost over sentimental value would fade, It really needs everything gone threw.

Good Luck , Mark

Anything can be done! I think what everyone is thinking in the back of there head is that we all would hate to see anyone head in to a Project this big, needing everything gone though and get discouraged half way with nickel-dime stuff (read $100 stuff or more)! Then there is the time element, what should ONLY take a week takes a month, if it should take a month plan on two-three! Hell, look at the guys that sent there Deck shocks for rebuilding! Two to three months.
What ever you decide, we will all be here with encouragement!

I'll second that, The Pantera ownership is a priveledge,and a restored pantera will be a great personal achievement.
And the guys on these forums, are a great wealth of information and help.
I couldn't have done it without them

In a nutshell, I think this car is an excellent candidate for a complete restoration, providing there is no rust in the rear frame rails or suspension support structure. Jack up the back of the car and use a hammer and Phillips screw driver to pound the lower suspension support tubes and the webbing between them to check for rust. Also pound the the screwdriver into the underside of the frame rails. You should hear a solid metallic sound, and the screwdriver should NOT move the steel or go through it. Most of the rust starts on the inside and is not visible from the outside. That's why you need to use a hammer and screwdriver. If the steel gives or the screw driver goes through, then you have rust, and it's an expensive proposition to fix it.

Check out these albums for some examples of what I'm talking about:
http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd303/garth66/2006-0...ro%20eBay%20Pantera/
http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd303/garth66/2006-1...n%20Mateo%20Pantera/

Not sure where you.re at in MA but if you're anywhere near Tyngsboro you should contact Pat Mical of Performance Auto Technology. He's an amazing resource for us NE pantera people. You can look him up on the web or I've got two #'s.

978 649 2211 or 978 758 6023. I believe he'd come out and look at it for you.

I second your suggestion larryw. Pat has been a tremendous resource for me and helped when I was looking at my car.

quote:

Originally posted by sgarrett:
I second your suggestion larryw. Pat has been a tremendous resource for me and helped when I was looking at my car.

I triple (treble?) the suggestion for Pat Mical. NO WAY you can go wrong there. www.patsauto.com is the site and his phone number is buried on there somewhere. Tell him his pals made you call him.

He's a frighteningly honest realist. He makes dreamers wake up from the "low budget high reward nonsense", but puts them right back into the dream state when they see what he can do with a car. I've lived it and LOVE my car as a result.

To your original question - you've gotten great advice here already; $10grand will barely keep you 'safe' in the investment but give you an education and a cool car as a bonus. Have fun, keep us posted.