Barrett-Jackson Auction

Barrett-Jackson customers have gone nuts for American muscle cars in the last few years. Baby Boomer nostalgia, income, and an endless array of option combinations have resulted in an endless number of documented "rare" vehicles to talk yourself into as a "solid investment".
Then you have the "name builder" hot rod nut that wants bragging rights to owning a magazine car...and now a TV car. "Yep...I own the Boyd Alumo-Lead-Lincoln from the second season of American Hot Rod. Only paid $437,000 at that Barrett Jackson thing. Got it from my computer one afternoon. Hell, if I'd been there I prob'ly would have been on TV myself!"
It's not the place for real antiques and exotics anymore. The announcers even rip exotics every time they come up. "That Ferrari styling has gotten pretty dated, Bob. Shore don't sound like a Big Block. And here's a Pantera, Bob. What do you make of this thing? Not really a muscle car...ha...ha...ha...not really an exotic...ha...ha...ha...gonna be pretty hard to sell this one for what the owner has spent on it." "Oh, yeah...ha...ha...ha."
I used to love to watch that auction. Beautiful, respectifully restored historic automobiles and rare exotic super cars whose manufacturers were stretching the limits of design and performance with extrodinary and exquisite engineering.
Now it's "big block this and rare package that and look at that Boydster shine."
Don't waste your time looking for any exotic trends from these guys. If anything, they're keeping prices down.
B-J has become a big BJ.
Mooso.

Well put Mooso! The last time I turned of BJ was when that pocked marked face 20 something kid paid 2 million for a 70 Cuda hemi. I felt sorry for him. He was too young to have earned that money...he must have fell ass first into it....easy come ...easy go.

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And here's a Pantera, Bob. What do you make of this thing? Not really a muscle car...ha...ha...ha...not really an exotic...ha...ha...ha..."

Their loss...is our gain!

Josh

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Originally posted by JK:

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And here's a Pantera, Bob. What do you make of this thing? Not really a muscle car...ha...ha...ha...not really an exotic...ha...ha...ha..."

Their loss...is our gain!

Josh

Panteras have not been discovered yet, or should I say rediscovered?

There were some early indications that there was some up movement in them.
Recent asking prices have been reduced on some very prime cars. As an owner that is not incouraging.

The 427TP Quella car is a pretty good example of what the market is. That's a car that cost $200,000 to build and only sold for around $50,000.

A couple of the PI cars have been reduced. These are not strong indicators for "investing" in a Pantera at the moment.

Personally I consider a car a solid investment if the ratio of the cost of a professional restoration is about equal to the market value. Unfortunately it isn't even close.

The Barett-Jackson web page would indicate that few Panteras have been auctioned there. No one has a particularly good argument as to why.

A lot of the BJ results don't make sense. The $2m Cuda, the $1.1m Chevelle, 427 Cobras street cars only reaching $200,000, 289's only reaching $150,000.

None of those numbers are market trends.

Since I own a Pantera I am hoping that the car reaches into six figures. Since it isn't quite there yet, I'd say this is a fantastic opportunity now to by one for under $50,000.

I would add that I wouldn't be interested in selling now for twice the current prices.
For all of those potential buyers who are reading this I say TS. Go find your bargain Pantera. You are going to find out what the meaning of an exotic really is in restoration.
Have fun, hope you have a lot of equaty.

There's an old article on the first Pantera that refers to it as the new Cobra. They must have changed their minds or Shelby persuaded them not to use the name. Can you imagine what these things would cost now if they had been Cobras and Shelby had put together a race team with them? Geez...they would be between one and two hundred grand, I'm sure.
I wanted one forever and followed the early stock body prices for years. They stayed stalled between 20 and 30 grand for ten to fifteen years. Now the same car brings 35 to 45 grand. I'm glad I got in when I did. I've always thought these cars were vastly underpriced. Never really understood the quarter mile mentality. Fun, but too limited. Give me a car that handles and takes you somewhere, any day. A sunny Colorado day cruising in the Rocky Mountains will make a believer out of you!
Mooso.

I agree with ya' Moose, although I've got a couple of Shelbys too. The Pantera is drastically underpriced, unexplicably.

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I've always thought these cars were vastly underpriced

I just don't think they've been discovered yet.It's going to take someone big,like Jay Leno or some other movie star to give it a name.

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Originally posted by jwr2968:

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I've always thought these cars were vastly underpriced

I just don't think they've been discovered yet.It's going to take someone big,like Jay Leno or some other movie star to give it a name.

A movie like "Gone in 60 seconds" wouldn't hurt.
Don't we have any movie moguls on this board?

Wouldn't it make a difference if you owned the car as a vehicle for personal pleasure versus an investment? On the outside looking in, I'm hoping to get into one before they really take off. But once I have ownership, then a high market value will just be a bonus of ownership, not a requirement. I'm looking for a car as a source of pleasure, not for its investment potential. I think in many ways Barrett-Jackson has done a bigger disservice to "car people" than it has helped; those who have desireable cars now have a lucrative investment. But for those who don't they'll now find it hard to enter the hobby at all, and the cars that could be enjoyed by those who would really appreciate them will be rotting in the garage of those who have no real interest in the vehicle but for its buy low, sell high potential.

CJJTULSA...you're my kind of guy! The whole reason to get into a Pantera is the fun factor. Not for the investment. I told my wife "When you're driving this thing you need to smile all the time...let 'em know that life is good and you're enjoying every minute of it!" No "too cool face" unless you're concentrating on that next corner!
I think the investment thing will definately come around again some day. The street dragster and show rod syndrome will morph into desire for real road machines and the classic exotics will take off again. I mean, how much fun is it to drive a car that is so overworked that you can't get it more than a few miles from your house? How much fun is it to polish more than you drive? How much fun is it to hang out at the Sonic on Friday night because that's as far as you're willing to drive your "Investment"?
We have a freshly paved, extremely winding canyon road just 30 minutes from our house. At the top of the canyon is a small resort town. Not much is better than pushing that road early on a Saturday morning...getting breakfast on a terrace with the smell of evergreens, a cool mountain breeze, and the rushing water of a clear creek...then pushing back down the canyon...all before the land barge's (RV's) alarm clocks go off.
You know, I've never wondered how much fun I'm missing at the Sonic.
Mooso.

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Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
The 427TP Quella car is a pretty good example of what the market is. That's a car that cost $200,000 to build and only sold for around $50,000.

I watch BJ from time to time when I really want to get steamed about prices of the 'Cuda's and Mustangs.
The buying frenzy is amazing when "cloned" bigblock cars start selling for more than documented original cars.
Most Panteras ony seem to be going for 3-4 times their original purchase price new, to me this is a good thing. I've always wanted one, ut even with the "bargain" prices compared to other colectables it has taken me over 20 years to get in a position to be able to get one.
I think the prices will start to climb, but for me that is not realy why I bought mine. I love the car for what it is, a beutifull design and a kick in the a** to drive. Our Panteras, really, any classic should be bought for it's personnal enjoyment value, if the prices on them happen to climb just consider it an added bonus.
Jeff

Of course you buy the car for the enjoyment of owning it.
Of course one can define that anyway they choose.
Of course we want to get in on the ground floor.
Why would anyone want to sell for less then was in it?
You bought a classic because it doesn't appreciate.
4DB, that is a great vehicle. One of the "neatest" cars I have come across in a long, long time. I sincerly said before that I am very envious of it's new owner.
There is a local guy here that likes to make a point of going to car shows with his kinda ratty 67 GT500.
He has a poster on an easil that states that he paid $800 for the car.
He has this aditude that everybody else is, umm, "screwd up" and paid way too much and is not smart like him. What is the plea in law, "no contest"?
I've seen him a few times and got friendlier with him.
He told me that everyone was stupid and overpaid.
I asked him if he was ever interested in selling to ask me, I might be interested. Particularly since he was going to be this one man against the world in the effort to drive prices down.
Well he did ask, and said he wanted $180,000 for it. It was cheap because it needed paint.
Hell, I would have given him $1000 for it and he could have shown that the car appreciated.
Now none of you need to point out to me that none of this makes any sense at all.
Did he buy it to drive the prices down and changed his mind?
Does he just like to rub s... in everyones face?
Let me state it to you all this way, there are none of US that won't want top dollar for the car when you go to sell it.
The cost of repair of just about any kind of serious fender bender on this car is $100000. Price the parts. You don't find many used parts in junk yards for these things.
Possibly the only car with a worse ratio is the Mangusta.
A Ford GT is safer to drive on the street.
So why did I write this, I don't know I forgot again. Does anybody rember the point? I don't.

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The cost of repair of just about any kind of serious fender bender on this car is $100000

Not quite that bad. State Farm shelled out, without any hassle I might add, about $35K for my 2511 off-road adventure. Chassis tweaked, wasted fender, bumper, grill, valance, r&p, tires, full repaint. Details in the webshot pix.

Larry

That's interesting. I would think that is a total loss at that amount on a non-classic policy.
The insurance company here will establish a replacement value of the car first.
They will find the three lowest price cars they can find advertised for sale anywhere in the US and average the prices.
As we all can see, it isn't to hard to find three cars at $30000 or under for sale.
Then if the repair cost is over 70% of that average number the car is a total loss.
If it is your collision you are claiming it on, the car is gone. They take it and give you the money plus the salvage.
I would think that they would claim that the replacement value would be in the $30,000 range?
If that was my car, with Allstate, on my collision coverage, it would have been totalled out at about $26,500.
Does State Farm offer stated value? Allstate doesn't. I have Hagerty on my three classics, which include the Pantera.
It is another negative aspect of a low value on a Pantera. A higher "value" would help.
Interesting, very interesting.

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Does State Farm offer stated value?

Yep. That is what I have. I need to up the stated value though. It has been almost ten years and the value has gone up a skoosh. I need to remember to do that.

I recived my Hagarty policy today. $45,000 stated agreed value, no mileage restrictions.....$330 annual premium. I feel better now!

You either have to have Agreed Value or a Stated Value. It can't be both.

Make sure it is Agreed Value or you will not get the full amount.

Just as a side note, I pay $220 for an agreed value of $35,000 on my DeLorean from American Collectors. Food for thought and am actually changing it to full replacement value after the Concours Im entering next month, it actually turns 25 and is supposed to be worth abit more. Hopefully first place would help some too

Thanks RRS, I looked...it is agreed. You see how just one word changes everything. Insurance companies scare me. Thanks

I'm agreed value, but I'm going to up it from $50 to $75 I think.
I'm close to the 427TP Quella car that 4DB has as far as "invisable mods" go. A total would be a big ouch right now.

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Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
Thanks RRS, I looked...it is agreed. You see how just one word changes everything. Insurance companies scare me. Thanks

But which word LPB? Yes or no?

This $35000 fenderbender was kind of a "minor" fender bender. What is a front clip worth?
This was just a fender and a bottom nose skin. Geeze!