Barrett Jackson predictions

My quess is there will be more than a few unhappy sellers.

Go to enough Circuses and eventually you will get stepped on by an elephant...

There are less cars for sale so maybe that will drive the bidding up.

I don't think that BJ is immune from the economy but by the same token these buyers are not your average people next door types. At least not in my neighborhood.

I'm waiting for the day when the Pantera is discovered.

I know we probably beat ths to death before... but I couple things puzzle me.

One is why the P car value is like one of the only muscle cars to not climb to outrageous prices.

Two is its really a great car with lotsa potential? So why is the demand not greater ?

Three every time I talk to an admirer either at a car show or else where. Its usually an older person who couldnt afford this car new because they were too expensive back then .. more then the Corvette of its day ... an now they can afford it ... so why is the demand not greater ?

Barrett Jackson is like the WWF ... most of it is staged .. he pays people to buy them cars at outrageous prices.

Ron

I think that most people would view it as an exotic. I believe that people group them with the Ferrari and thus the addiage that I can afford to buy one but not to own one.

Muscle cars are in demand.

Just because you wanted something when you were younger doesn't mean that you still want it now. I don't want a pony anymore.

I think that the Pantera concept was right on for it's time but not now. People are driving around in suv's and things like the Element.

That will be the dream car of the future. Scary if you ask me.

I'll be watching the auction Saturday around 5 when the B-702 goes up. Built by Randy Grubb, I met him at the 2006 Fresno Autorama where he was showing his first car, the Jay Leno aluminum Tank Car. I had on a Pantera shirt, he had just bought one and it went from there. He was at the 2006 Fun Rally, ran his black car on the track and became track addicted. He sold the Pantera and just sorted out his new CAV GT40.

He showed the unfinished B-702 at the 2007 Autorama, and this is probably as close as I will ever get to driving such a vehicle.

Larry

Goodmorning,
Regarding BJ auctions, I believe he has helped destroy the affordability of the muscle car hobby agian, hobby of the average guy. There is a large group attempting to start a class action suit for fraud etc. against Greg J. for intentionally, fraudulantly inflating the value of muscle cars at his auctions. He got caught.
Sorry to ramble, I ve collected cars since I was 16. At 44 I have had some fun cars come and go and my kids love them, 9 and 11yrs old,they will have very hard time ever abtaining one because it has become "Big Business" for the wealthy, not a hobby.
Personally, I do not care what sells at BJ's for how much, I cannot. Not when I know what he has done, still does to falsely inflate value.
He and the sellers have pigeons in the crowd, watch them, you will see how they bait a drunk rich person to pay more than market value. I know this because I know one of the pigeons.

Pantera pricing.
I have read many articles over the years and recently in the local paper they did one on BJ,s, that is muscle cars are soft, real soft, almost crashed in value, except the true rare ones, hemi this hemi that, 428CJ mach's etc.
they continued on that EXOTICS are one the rise and fast, this concurs with what all of us have been saying, exotics will go up, they are truely rare as apposed to a million camaros and mustangs produced, no offense to any owners,
Sorry again for rambling

Daniel

Cars that have true historic value, like Packards and Duesenburgs will go way higher, maybe not at BJ, but in general. That is because the dollar is sinking and true collector cars, rare and historic collectibles, are like hedgeing against inflation. Just like gold hitting a historic high of $900 an once. Gold didn't get rarer, it just holds its value against the falling dollar. Cars that people would have bought by borrowing against their home equity however will plummet. I predict the Pantera will drop accordingly as it was the only affordable exotic around and a lot of guys will have to sell them off in the coming recesion. Including me. I got laid off yesterday and although I will try and hang on to my beuty, if it comes between it and buying food, food will win out.

DeTom,

I'm truly sorry to hear you got laid off, I pray and hope you will find new employment quickly.

I think what might hold the Pantera back from being as valuable as a "classic muscle" car, may be the fact that a DeTomaso is more difficult to repair and parts are on average, more expensive. Lets face it, open the hood on a 69 Camaro to replace a water pump or do a minor tune up, is a piece of cake. Also, climbing into the Pantera, requires a sincere effort. Its not an effortless exercise for the average american.
What collectors fail to realize, and what I have always known, the Pantera is the best of both worlds. Italian styling...american DEPENDABLE power. For a little extra work to repair...your driving a car most onlookers envy.
Current value?...A Pantera will hold its own easily...and increase in the market as time goes on.
Also...if a hit movie were to use a Pantera.....you can bet values will go up overnight!

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
I got laid off yesterday and although I will try and hang on to my beuty, if it comes between it and buying food, food will win out.

I am sorry to hear that DT. I certainly hope it doesn't come to selling the Pantera.
I would eat the children first.

Incase you haven't looked, we are already in a recession. Of course the immigrants are doing better then ever. Illegals even better because they don't pay taxes. Just the Americans are on the street.

FYI, I got fired a year ago December 22. They said we have to let you go. I said Merry Christmas.

DeTom...
Sorry to hear you about getting laid off! I was laid off three months ago. Company down sizing. Keep your head up something will pop up!
Good Luck

I'm truly very saddened to hear about everyone's difficulties, I wish you all the best.

DT sorry to hear about your difficulties ... but better days are coming.

In my business HVAC we are slow also .. but the good news for Americans is .. all the big Heating and AC manufacturers that moved to Mexico are now experiencing ... the fact that in Mexico work is not that important .. the quailty of the product .. inculding completing a unit ..not to have warranty issues , showing up on time in the am to get a piece of equipemnt out the order to fill an order, leaving early and not completing a piece of equipment, and the turn over rate of employees then retraining new ones to do a factory job, then it takes 3 times as long to pruduce a product because of all this in Mexico.

So NAFTA wasnt so successful. The big Co's are rethinking the Big Move to Mexico.

Its also said that when this War ends there will be the largest labor shortage since WW 2.

So keep your head up and vote to end the WAR ...period ..bring the dollars back to the USA and let them kill each other over their. There are other countries that are closer and with with firing range. Let them protect them selves.

Sorry went off on a tangent there.

Ron

Guys, I appreciate the sympathy and outpouring of well wishes. I think I will be ok and I shouldn't be at all surprised since I was employed in residential water heaters and housing is at an all time low. I apologise for highjacking the thread but was just using my situation as an example of what might cause the Pantera to not go up in value as much as it should. I guess I could have used the example of ageing Pantera owners getting old infirmed and passing on to the other side, but since that hasn't happened to me yet I didn't use that example. I had no idea that there were folks on this board in the same boat I was in, but you give good advice. We will all find employment if we so desire. I wish I could think of a big idea that I could come up with that I could earn a living at without being dependent on other businesses for my welfare. I know there is something, but I just haven't thought of it yet.
Once again, thank you all so very much for being there for me.

Actually, we don't care about you. We just don't want you to get rid of your car!



Just kidding you know!

DETOM, i'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, but i'm a FIRM BELIEVER that things happen for a reason !!, i'm sure BETTER things are coming your way......................GOOD LUCK....DAVE

I'm sorry to hear about your situation DeTom. I was laid off 4 months ago. I was a construction superintendent for a residential builder. Almost a month later to the day I started my new much better job. I even turned down two pretty good offers. The point is: try not to get down. Something new and better is around the corner. Don't be afraid to call on friends and family and ask if they know anyone. Get your unemployment benefits. Its yours, you paid it in. Look to the public sector. That's where I wound up.

Keep your chin up my friend. We will be praying for you.

DT, Sorry to hear about that something better will show up for you, just thank god your not in Michigan we are in a one state recession.

quote:

So NAFTA wasnt so successful. The big Co's are rethinking the Big Move to Mexico.

AC Thats why they want to move to Korea or China. Mexico was a bust!

And for BJ did you see where BJ and that judge settled?? The judge issued a written retraction to his claims and now BJ is ready to continue its high quality services to its clients!
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Joe6pack:
I'm sorry to hear about your situation DeTom. I was laid off 4 months ago. I was a construction superintendent for a residential builder. Almost a month later to the day I started my new much better job. I even turned down two pretty good offers. The point is: try not to get down. Something new and better is around the corner. Don't be afraid to call on friends and family and ask if they know anyone. Get your unemployment benefits. Its yours, you paid it in. Look to the public sector. That's where I wound up.

Keep your chin up my friend. We will be praying for you.

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate it. I know these things happen. I wasn't trying to bum everyone out. I am going to do my darndest to hang on to my car, but I also know some of the things life sends your way is beyond ones control. I believe in Jesus so I am not down at all. No matter what happens I always have him.

Dethom, You just got an awarwd last year for the development that got your company bought out. Now the new guys dump you? You gotta look for a recession proof job. The paint and body business is booming. Look what I am about to finish the paint on. 70 Superbird, the wing is signed by Mr Petty himself.

another pic

quote:

Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
Dethom, You just got an awarwd last year for the development that got your company bought out. Now the new guys dump you? You gotta look for a recession proof job. The paint and body business is booming. Look what I am about to finish the paint on. 70 Superbird, the wing is signed by Mr Petty himself.

Yep, just before Christmas they threw a dinner party for me and the boys who made it happen. I wish I could do stuff like you Bill, but you are an artist and I am nothing but an engineer. If I thought for a new york nano-second I had any talent at all I would be down on your doorstep in two shakes of a lambs tail.

Bill,
where ya been? long time since you've posted.
welcome back.
Glenn
www.panteraguy.com

Holy cow, hijack much?

I'm just the finish painter...the car is rebuilt... new quartrs...pans... very nice..I'm not going to make it my problm to assemblr the car.. but the paint will be first class!

Barrett-Jackson is a marketing machine. Any auction house over the last few hundred years (one of the oldest forms of commerce is the public outcry for cash/trade for merchantible goods) would've been happy to have had a quarter the success in their history as BJ has in the last 4 years.

SpeedVision/SpeedChannel launched a 'live' spectator curiosity into a living spectacle. Craig Jackson probably has more attorneys than 'plants' in the crowd running up bids, so I think the machine is bigger than the manipulation needed to fuel it. They're onto more 'defensible' discourses now:

The stupid 'clone' market; the 'recreation' market; the 'continuation' market; and more recently the 'twin' (sequential serial #s or matching sets)are all obsene in our eyes as "car guys." Yet among the monied, liquored, and looking for 15 seconds of TV fame, they're circus oddities that MUST have some value or 14 other idiots wouldn't be bidding too!

The game of musical (or muscular?) chairs will end. All over-fueled, over-hyped markets do. As one lone voice, it is not Craig Jackson's doing any more than Michael Milliken created the junk bond market (though villified for same). It is a certain quality called 'greed' among sellers and buyers (each swapping roles as oft as the dollar value increases to suit them).

I've been part of it, watched it in some horror, and lamented getting out too soon. Yes, greed strikes us all. BJ is the kindling; SpeedChannel the fuel; greed the match.

A spectator sport indeed.

True to the original thread question: Prices for REAL LIVE LEGITIMATE VALIDATED RARE (L88s, Hemi B bodies and converts, etc, etc) and desirable muscle cars will be flat. Middle of the road stuff (the 'normal' big blocks) will fall. Entry level stuff likely non existent (to cut the numbers as one poster already said and wisely so).

If a Pantera shows up, I'll be standing up, cheering, hoping it pulls money to the rafters.

I see two reasons why a Pantera will never be in the league of other "exotics".

1) Limited upgrades. No higher HP motors, transmission, or options. Only upgrades are in models (ie GTS, GT5-S [and those cars command a premium] etc)

2)No standard of the marque. We all love P cars because of their uniqueness. They are customized to our tastes. Premium prices are paid only for top stock examples of the marque. Anyone want to return their car to original showroom stock?

Look at any auction house. The selling point for the auctioneer is the combination of rarity of options and condition of the car from stock.

When my son and I went to the Concorso Italiano this past year we walked over a hill and, I kid you not, it was a sea of Farrari Red. They were all the same. 308, 328, Mondials, Dinos they all looked the same. Totally opposite at the Pantera paddock. Different colors, styles, and not one looked like another.

Besides prices can't go up til I buy one..........

Hey DeTom: I am in the same boat. Was layed off 8 months ago as a medical diagnostics lab sales person. Most would think no probs, getting a job but it takes time even here in Phoenix! I am living the american dream, working at costco for 11 bucks an hr now part time 20 hours a week while my wife supports the family & I have a college degree & 25 years selling experience to Dr's & Phd's. Go figure I would have better off working as an illegal and not paying taxes or for our medical benefits - saving lots of money over the years and showing up at my Local Hospital Emergency room for medical treatment for my stuffy nose & cold like some of our more under the radar folks do all the time while your & my tax dollars pay for the free ride for free medical help & free education for the children of illegals & any other handouts our goverment can think of for free! FYI unemployment insurance runs about 240 bucks per week for the top rate = $6.00 an hour so in my book something is wrong when I pay the amount I use to in taxes! Perhaps the 33 million Illegals going back home may create more jobs for all us unemployed folks from the bottom up as they say! Ok I get off my high horse! Living just 2 miles from the Barrett Jackson Circus. I begin to wonder about the bids this year and the true cars versus the re-creation cars. The recreations & the supposed one of one cars that are custom are starting to bug me as to their true collectability or is it pure hype as many suggested. I believe the latter as per hype. Auburn cords, dusenburgs, stanley steamer, early Jaguars, those are the true collectables with provanance as one would say. Sorry about the spelling I was only a c student in Sociology.

John

John

Please stay on your horse! Keep up the good word!

Here in Mexifornia it's just as bad! 25 years of working hard and the state lets you have $240 a week of your money that you paid in! It make you wonder what we pay these clowns in office for? I'm tired of paying taxes that pay for health care for illegals! I can't afford to pay for my own health care!
If you come to the USA, to better yourself, do it the RIGHT way, the LEGAL way, pay your fair share of taxes AND pay for your own health care.

Just watched a 1971 J Code Torino Cobra hit the $100,000 mark. Nice looking car...was a benchseat car. Had a shaker and louvers. This is one of my favorite body styles Im so glad they are starting to really bring some fair value. But I have noticed that the auction prices have been very flat or below for this year.
Heres my old GT.

I was surprised at the 56 Nomad at only $54K and the 65 Vette Roadster at $40k. Both very low for the car.

Torino's are insane. Too bad you can't put enough meat in the back to hook up the 429. Nice smoke show though!!!

Miles...Off set wheels! Granted I cut the rear on my chero, but had 4 inches to the spring perches!

Nice rides Jeff!!!