My alt is not putting out enough amps to run my systems. Can anyone recomend the best upgrade components? Internal/external regulator, Jegs?..Summit?.. Etc..???.. Thanks for any help or advice...
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One option is an 80 amp alternator from a 1988 Thunderbird with the 3.8L V-6. It bolts right in. It has an internal regulator, so you have to do some rewiring. I was afraid to go any higher output than that - I don't think I want 125 or more amps going through a 35 year old wiring harness. It has worked for me now for three years and never had a dead battery. -Steve
I used a 90 amp from a Ford Aerostar. Same bolt spacing as the original alternator. Just need to swap pulleys. Internal regulator that is easy to hook up. Plenty of power even with both fans running, lights on, and AC on.
Hi amp alts for older Fords are normally rated at 100 amps or 140 amps. Your oem alt was rated 65 amps I believe. So the 100 amp replacement alt has 50% more capacity than the oem alt. As Dave has written, his 90 amp alt provides plenty of current for dual fans, headlights & a/c running all at the same time.
Most Pantera vendors offer a 100 amp alternator. Ford alternators are 3 wire versions, GM alternators are available as 1 wire versions. There is a definite disadvantage to the way 1 wire alternators sense voltage for voltage regulation, so 3 wire alternators are normally recommended. The 1 wire alts are preferred by the hot rod guys, they are cosmetically advantageous for show cars, trailer queens, etc, because there is less wiring cluttering up the engine bay. This is a moot point in a Pantera, even a Pantera show car, because nobody can see the front of the motor anyway.
The case of your older oem alternator is known as the 1G case. The 1G case is available in two sizes, a small case and a large case. Your oem Mustang alternator is a small case alternator. It was originally available in amp ratings of 35 to 65 amps. Kits are available to increase the rating of this alternator to 80 amps. Later versions of the 1G small case alternator with integral voltage regulators were available with higher amp ratings, such as Dave's Aerostar alt with a 90 amp rating. I suspect the reason why the Pantera vendors only offer a 100 amp alt, the 140 amp alt is most likely a large case alternator.
Ford alternator mounting 30 years ago was straight forward, the alternator had a low "pivot" mount (designed for a through bolt) and an upper "ear" tab (with a threaded boss). The clocking of that tab varied from model to model too, but it was easy to rotate the front casting of the alternator in relation to the rear casting and change the clocking as needed.
Modern Ford alternators are designed for fixed mounting, the cases are much different than those of the older alternators. The cases are available in two series, the 3G case and the 6G case. The 3G & 6G alternators are also available in two case sizes (i.e. small & large). A 3G or 6G large case alternator can be rated up to 200 amps, but they won't work in your Pantera. Your choices are confined to the alternators with the old 1G style case.
You also questioned which style of voltage regualtor to use, I don't think you'll have the option of specifying where the voltage regualtor is mounted (remote on the firewall or integral to the alt), all the high current alts have integral voltage regualtors. If you end up purchasing an alternator designed for a remote mounted voltage regulator (80 amp rating), just make sure you install a modern solid state voltage regulator on your firewall, that's what's most important.
cowboy from hell
Most Pantera vendors offer a 100 amp alternator. Ford alternators are 3 wire versions, GM alternators are available as 1 wire versions. There is a definite disadvantage to the way 1 wire alternators sense voltage for voltage regulation, so 3 wire alternators are normally recommended. The 1 wire alts are preferred by the hot rod guys, they are cosmetically advantageous for show cars, trailer queens, etc, because there is less wiring cluttering up the engine bay. This is a moot point in a Pantera, even a Pantera show car, because nobody can see the front of the motor anyway.
The case of your older oem alternator is known as the 1G case. The 1G case is available in two sizes, a small case and a large case. Your oem Mustang alternator is a small case alternator. It was originally available in amp ratings of 35 to 65 amps. Kits are available to increase the rating of this alternator to 80 amps. Later versions of the 1G small case alternator with integral voltage regulators were available with higher amp ratings, such as Dave's Aerostar alt with a 90 amp rating. I suspect the reason why the Pantera vendors only offer a 100 amp alt, the 140 amp alt is most likely a large case alternator.
Ford alternator mounting 30 years ago was straight forward, the alternator had a low "pivot" mount (designed for a through bolt) and an upper "ear" tab (with a threaded boss). The clocking of that tab varied from model to model too, but it was easy to rotate the front casting of the alternator in relation to the rear casting and change the clocking as needed.
Modern Ford alternators are designed for fixed mounting, the cases are much different than those of the older alternators. The cases are available in two series, the 3G case and the 6G case. The 3G & 6G alternators are also available in two case sizes (i.e. small & large). A 3G or 6G large case alternator can be rated up to 200 amps, but they won't work in your Pantera. Your choices are confined to the alternators with the old 1G style case.
You also questioned which style of voltage regualtor to use, I don't think you'll have the option of specifying where the voltage regualtor is mounted (remote on the firewall or integral to the alt), all the high current alts have integral voltage regualtors. If you end up purchasing an alternator designed for a remote mounted voltage regulator (80 amp rating), just make sure you install a modern solid state voltage regulator on your firewall, that's what's most important.
cowboy from hell
Well,... I guess that covers it. Thank you, you are indeed a jedi master, that is just the information I needed!
I'm curious what the connectors on the back of the alternators were like for the 1988 Thunderbird with the 3.8L V-6 and the 90 amp from a Ford Aerostar. Were there three poles like our original alternators, or did they have plug receptacles which required you to modify your wiring?
Georege - Do you know if the 100amp alternator offered by PIM is internally regulated and if it has 3 poles on the back side for the wiring? It was on their website 3 weeks ago, but I can't find it anymore. Thanks!
Georege - Do you know if the 100amp alternator offered by PIM is internally regulated and if it has 3 poles on the back side for the wiring? It was on their website 3 weeks ago, but I can't find it anymore. Thanks!
The T-Bird alternator uses a push-in connector. Turns out that the original factory connectors had melt-down problems, so all the auto parts stores sell replacement plugs with pigtails. A few butt splices with heat shrink, and away you go. I also like internal regulators because you can get rid of the external one by the starter solenoid, which helps clean up that corner a bit. I think the Aerostar alternator is similar. -Steve
quote:Originally posted by garth66:
...Do you know if the 100amp alternator offered by PIM is internally regulated and if it has 3 poles on the back side for the wiring...
To the best of my knowledge, the max rating of the externally regulated alternators is 80 amps. Since the PI Motorsports alt is rated for 100 amps, I would assume it has an "integral" voltage regulator. Not necessarily "internal". This means it does not have the 3 terminal wiring like the oem alt, it has one of two possible plug-in connectors. Like Steve wrote, its very easy to splice the connector into the oem wiring harness.
cowboy from hell
The 90 amp alternator I used has the standard screw stud for the high current wire, and a push in connector for the other two wires. One wire is sense and goes to the battery. The other is the field and goes to the generator light. Very easy to hook up. You dont need the old external regulator and by just a little wire splicing of about 18 inch wires, you can hook up to the yellow and blue wires on the old regulator. The yellow is the voltage sense, and the blue is the gen light. Just get a small chunk of harness from the junk yard for the small wires. The connector has a third wire, but it plugs back into another location on the alternator. I have included a pic of my install.
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That set up looks good... I think I will try that... Thanks Dave!...
I installed a Tuff Stuff 100 AMP remanufactured alternator I picked off of eBay and new HD NAPA external regulator. A simple R&R with no wiring mods except that I bridged the amp meter with a few strands of wire to allow some of the current to bypass the gauge just as a precautionary measure. All working great since '94.
http://www.tuffstuffperformance.com/products/part.asp?partid=139
Ron
#3336
http://www.tuffstuffperformance.com/products/part.asp?partid=139
Ron
#3336
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quote:Originally posted by PLT-1:
...I have a real mental block about wiring, I'm intimidated by it for some reason... I am thinking of going with the GM 100 amp alt... When switching to a single wire alt, what should I do with these five wires from the regulator??...
Before choosing a one wire alternator, read this article. http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml
Don't be afraid of using a one-wire alternator, you can still hook up and use the alternator light. I got this alternator from Summit.
You can also get more information here:
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You can also get more information here:
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quote:Originally posted by PLT-1:
...I have a real mental block about wiring, I'm intimidated by it for some reason... I am thinking of going with the GM 100 amp alt... When switching to a single wire alt, what should I do with these five wires from the regulator??...
If you are intimidated by wiring, why do you choose to install a GM alt that requires modifying the wiring? My advice, go the same route Ron (rlee63a4) chose, install a rebuilt Ford alt with a 100 amp kit installed, and a new solid state voltage regualtor. You won't have to give the wiring one thought, just plug and play.
Good post Ron, I wasn't aware there were 100 amp kits for the 70's vintage small case Ford alts. That really looks like the best approach for folks who prefer to keep the wiring stock, for whatever reason that may be.
My original thinking was to just run down to NAPA and grab an alt/reg and slap it in.. Now I think I will just grab a Ford 100 amp w/external... But who has them??..Who has the 100 amp Ford case w/ext. regulator?...
NAPA solid state voltage regulator part number is VR440SB. Paid ~$10.
Thats what I needed.. Thanks you guys!!...there must have been six or seven different VR's in the napa book, that web site and p/n is the answer.. Thanks...
Just a quick update, I grabbed an HDVR and a 100 amp from tuff stuff and all is well. The guys at Tuff Stuff treated me great and I will do biz w/them again. Bud at Tuff Stuff helped me and the customer service was outstanding!.... Thanks to Bud and thanks to you guys for helping me out!!...
GM version: Large bearings for high V-belt tension. (serpentine belts have lower tension, smaller front bearings)Efficient blower impeller, Internal regulator, three wires, compatible with Pantera wiring, including light. Minor modifications are needed to fit and different spacers.
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Jon,
Nice looking installation. Looks like a good economical alternative. What's the amp rating? What's the part number or application. Thanks.
Dan
Nice looking installation. Looks like a good economical alternative. What's the amp rating? What's the part number or application. Thanks.
Dan
Dan, This GM alternator is the 12SI series began service in 1983 GM products and use metric hardware for mounting. Weight 11.2 lbs. After-market version in excess of 140 Amps and chrome versions.
I have had mine in operation for 6 years, no problems.
P/N 1101307, 66 Amps, 23 Amps@1600RPM
P/N 1101345, 78 Amps, 23 Amps@1600RPM
P/N 1101308, 94 Amps, 32 Amps@1600RPM
I have had mine in operation for 6 years, no problems.
P/N 1101307, 66 Amps, 23 Amps@1600RPM
P/N 1101345, 78 Amps, 23 Amps@1600RPM
P/N 1101308, 94 Amps, 32 Amps@1600RPM
Thanks Jon. Dan
I would like to amend my afore mentioned statement concerning the "outstanding customer service" at Tuffstuff. I had a QC question about the alt they sent me, specifically it would not send current through my system... When I reinstalled my 60 amp there was no problem. So after installing, reinstalling, ohming, etc.. I decided to send the tuff stuff unit back for testing... It's been a long time???... I have heard a few lame reasons why they havn't turned the unit around?.. They can't seem to communicate internally the status of the alt?.. They have yet to return three promised call backs??... I intend on letting them keep the alt and starting over... Any suggestions on an external 100 amp???.. The good news; My wife and I working as a team can now do an alt change on a Pantera "turn key to turn key" in about 8 minutes.. A P/N for a three wire 100 amp or equivlent that I might be able to use at my local parts store would be great?.. Thanks for any help or advice...