How much interior head room can be gained by removing the seat rails and bolting the seat directly to the floor?
Steve
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Not much. The stock seats are not flat on the bottom. They are rounded.
They have little cast zinc/aluminum spacers on them at the corners to keep the seat high enough so the seat can be moved. They are almost touching the floor already at the low point.
You need to lower the floor pans to get more head room and you need to space the pedals forward for more leg room.
They have little cast zinc/aluminum spacers on them at the corners to keep the seat high enough so the seat can be moved. They are almost touching the floor already at the low point.
You need to lower the floor pans to get more head room and you need to space the pedals forward for more leg room.
I suppose having the dropped pans installed runs alot of money?
Anyone tried this before?
Anyone tried this before?
quote:Originally posted by gandalfthegray:
I suppose having the dropped pans installed runs alot of money?
Anyone tried this before?
I've got them. I bought them from Hall and installed them myself.
I think they cost $300 from Hall.
You need a welding device and a sawzall.
The pans are available premade from just about every Pantera vendor that I see.
Basically you cut out yours and weld in the new ones.
They don't come with any reinforcing so you need to add some channel steel under the seat bolts to reinforce them.
You could probably fabricate your own pans since they are 90 degree bends on the sides and 45 front and back.
don't forget to add a couple hundred bucks for new carpet.
Gary #06984
Gary #06984
I may have to look into it, I can't stand my hair rubbing the headliner!
I'll probably just talk to Jerry at PI.
Thanks
I'll probably just talk to Jerry at PI.
Thanks
quote:Originally posted by gandalfthegray:
I may have to look into it, I can't stand my hair rubbing the headliner!
I'll probably just talk to Jerry at PI.
Thanks
To answer your original question, if you drop the pans 2" you gain 2" of head room.
With the stock seat tracks I had to shim them back up an inch so I can see over the steering wheel. Incidentally, I'm not a Munchkin either, try 6'2" and right now about 210#.
It didn't fix the leg room problem. I had to space the pedals forward just under 2" (1-7/8" to be exact).
Now my right leg has nearly two inches under the rim of the steering wheel.
Also, to solve the too low sitting position, I put in power seat tracks which go all the way back on both sides because of the engine bubble is gone too. They are modified from my Taurus SHO and have power lumbar, height and rake adjustment as well as fore and aft.
I never get out of the garage. I just play with all the power accessories I put in the car.
Saves a lot on gas.
It also makes a huge difference if you plan on doing any track events. With a helmet on I had no room, and I have a 4-point roll bar. I used to have to cant my head to one side and scoot down in the seat to wear the helmet. Now with the dropped floor pans, I can drive with comfort.
Less costly to ball peen a bubble into the roof above your head.
Easy fix, install a "Gurney Bubble". LOL
Good luck..
Good luck..
All that work! Why don't you just shave your head? Sorry I couldn't help myself.
I installed the pans from Marino Perna. As I understand it these were designed
by Kirk Evans and he makes them in a couple of diffrent drops. Mine were the
larger drop (about 3 inches at the rear and maybe half that at the front).
You can see the angle of pans here:
http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album03/pantera_at_bodyshop_005
These are the big pans that cut into both the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger seats and permits the seats
to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of
the original pan reinforcements. The pans are flanged on two sides. After
removing the carpet, we made a tape line around the perimeter to use as a
guide. A cut-off wheel was used to get started then we switched to a Sawzall.
After cutting out the floor with the Sawzall, we had to trim it in a couple of
spots then the pans dropped right in place. I cleaned all the areas to be
welded with a die grinder and rotary wire brush wheel to ensure a clean weld.
After a bit of hammering, we welded along the entire perimeter of the pan.
You'll need a helper to hold the pan edge flush with the surrounding floor.
The front edge of the pan is shaped so it can be welded to cap off the (now
open) forward section of the longitudinal brace. We capped that off, peened
the leading edge over to form a better welding surface and made filler pieces
(patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's
a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller ones both
inside the passenger compartment and underneath)). On the bottom side, we
made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
frame rails. Oddly, the aft portion of pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.
Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan. Under
load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the entire length
and it became very rigid. The pans come with a pair (per side) of very stiff
U-channels that are welded to the floor of the pans, stiffening the pan
bottoms and providing a place to bolt the seats to. Without these stiffeners,
the pans would "oil can" under a heavy load but with them in every thing is
quite stiff. The pans themselves are of a heavier guage metal than the
original floor. With every seam welded and the pans tied into the original
frame stiffeners, it doesn't look like I've lost much, if anything, in the
way of rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground
with no sag so it seems quite stiff. Since you weld in the rails, you can
position them a little closer to the centerline for better alignment with
the steering wheel but this will be limited by the widh of the seat you use.
One other thing to note. If you have your headliner in (mine is out), the
welder would likely leave smoke stains unless you cover it. We covered the
doors and dash and disconnected a few wires to the gauge console to swing
it out of the way while welding. You may also want to cover the windshield
since the grinding and welding sparks can imbed themselves into glass. Also,
on the bottom side of the welds, you'll need to fill in some gaps with seam
sealer. I ended up stripping the floor to bare metal and re-painting it. On
the bottom, I stripped off all the old undercoating, painted it and
re-undercoated.
The engine and transaxle are still out of the car so I'm not sure what the
final ground clearance hit will be but I'm 6'5" and 255 lbs and needed all
the drop I could get. I think the ground clearance on the road will be
acceptable but putting the car on a trailer could be tricky. I sat in the
car to steer and brake when we rolled the car off the trailer and was told
there wasn't much clearance. With the engine and transaxle back in, it will
likely be low enough to scrape. The ramps on that particular trailer are
fairly short and I think my buddy Eric's trailer has longer ramps plus he
keeps a set of boards to make the approach angle even shallower so hopefully
I'll be okay there.
Dan Jones
by Kirk Evans and he makes them in a couple of diffrent drops. Mine were the
larger drop (about 3 inches at the rear and maybe half that at the front).
You can see the angle of pans here:
http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album03/pantera_at_bodyshop_005
These are the big pans that cut into both the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger seats and permits the seats
to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of
the original pan reinforcements. The pans are flanged on two sides. After
removing the carpet, we made a tape line around the perimeter to use as a
guide. A cut-off wheel was used to get started then we switched to a Sawzall.
After cutting out the floor with the Sawzall, we had to trim it in a couple of
spots then the pans dropped right in place. I cleaned all the areas to be
welded with a die grinder and rotary wire brush wheel to ensure a clean weld.
After a bit of hammering, we welded along the entire perimeter of the pan.
You'll need a helper to hold the pan edge flush with the surrounding floor.
The front edge of the pan is shaped so it can be welded to cap off the (now
open) forward section of the longitudinal brace. We capped that off, peened
the leading edge over to form a better welding surface and made filler pieces
(patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's
a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller ones both
inside the passenger compartment and underneath)). On the bottom side, we
made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
frame rails. Oddly, the aft portion of pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.
Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan. Under
load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the entire length
and it became very rigid. The pans come with a pair (per side) of very stiff
U-channels that are welded to the floor of the pans, stiffening the pan
bottoms and providing a place to bolt the seats to. Without these stiffeners,
the pans would "oil can" under a heavy load but with them in every thing is
quite stiff. The pans themselves are of a heavier guage metal than the
original floor. With every seam welded and the pans tied into the original
frame stiffeners, it doesn't look like I've lost much, if anything, in the
way of rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground
with no sag so it seems quite stiff. Since you weld in the rails, you can
position them a little closer to the centerline for better alignment with
the steering wheel but this will be limited by the widh of the seat you use.
One other thing to note. If you have your headliner in (mine is out), the
welder would likely leave smoke stains unless you cover it. We covered the
doors and dash and disconnected a few wires to the gauge console to swing
it out of the way while welding. You may also want to cover the windshield
since the grinding and welding sparks can imbed themselves into glass. Also,
on the bottom side of the welds, you'll need to fill in some gaps with seam
sealer. I ended up stripping the floor to bare metal and re-painting it. On
the bottom, I stripped off all the old undercoating, painted it and
re-undercoated.
The engine and transaxle are still out of the car so I'm not sure what the
final ground clearance hit will be but I'm 6'5" and 255 lbs and needed all
the drop I could get. I think the ground clearance on the road will be
acceptable but putting the car on a trailer could be tricky. I sat in the
car to steer and brake when we rolled the car off the trailer and was told
there wasn't much clearance. With the engine and transaxle back in, it will
likely be low enough to scrape. The ramps on that particular trailer are
fairly short and I think my buddy Eric's trailer has longer ramps plus he
keeps a set of boards to make the approach angle even shallower so hopefully
I'll be okay there.
Dan Jones
The underside of the dropped pan is by far the closest point to the ground.
I reinforced my pans with 3/4 x 1/2 x 1/8 c channels longitudinally.
This way they stiffen and act as a mini skid.
It was either that or wear steel lined Fruit of the Looms.
I found the seat uncomfortably low with the full pan.
The power seat tracks that went in reuslted in about a 3/4 inch final drop.
For me that is fine.
The leg room was not really addressed with the drop unless I sat strait up all the time.
The locating of the pedal mounting plate forward is what fixed the leg room for me.
The cabin of the Pantera is large compared to the Mangusta. That car has very serious issues with finding more room.
I reinforced my pans with 3/4 x 1/2 x 1/8 c channels longitudinally.
This way they stiffen and act as a mini skid.
It was either that or wear steel lined Fruit of the Looms.
I found the seat uncomfortably low with the full pan.
The power seat tracks that went in reuslted in about a 3/4 inch final drop.
For me that is fine.
The leg room was not really addressed with the drop unless I sat strait up all the time.
The locating of the pedal mounting plate forward is what fixed the leg room for me.
The cabin of the Pantera is large compared to the Mangusta. That car has very serious issues with finding more room.
I am building my own drop floors. I am using Kirk Evans angled design idea. I made them out of 16gauge sheetmetal bent on a brake and beadrolled.Then I welded 1/4 thick square tabs that I tapped for the seat tracks. Pans are extreamly rigid. Seats are some radically modified 86 Dodge Daytona seats purchased at JY for $30pair. The total drop at rear is 1 1/2 lower than factory pan. I am 6'but a lot of my height is from the waist up.
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Dropping the pans is a job...if you want to do it correctly. I too bought the Kirk Evans pans and have not yet installed them (and may not). I needed to get the car ready for a track event. I have the Gary Herrig C4 Corvette seats, bolted to the floor with the spring bottom removed. Just enough room for my 6'-2" 200 lb frame to fit in. I bought a Sparco Sprint seat for the driver's side in solid black ($269) and bolted it to the floor. Now I can fit WITH my helmet on. The seat is super-supportive and is only a little more difficult to get in and out of. Plus, it blends nicely with the interior. You DO have to consider the reduced clearance when you drop the pans.
Swen
Swen
There is reduced clearance true, but it seems to manifest itself mostly on short sharply angled ramps like on a trailer.
My GTS chin spoiler gives me much more grief then the pans do on the street.
My GTS chin spoiler gives me much more grief then the pans do on the street.
Funny,
so far, the ONLY place where I have had problems with the center of my Pantera hanging up on a roadway, is the driveway entering the center where PI Motorsports is located!
Like Doug wrote, the majority of the time, my front spoiler will grind a bit when entering a steep driveway. It bothered me the first time it happened, but after I put a few cracks in it, it doesn't matter anymore!
your friend on the DTBB
so far, the ONLY place where I have had problems with the center of my Pantera hanging up on a roadway, is the driveway entering the center where PI Motorsports is located!
Like Doug wrote, the majority of the time, my front spoiler will grind a bit when entering a steep driveway. It bothered me the first time it happened, but after I put a few cracks in it, it doesn't matter anymore!
your friend on the DTBB
quote:My GTS chin spoiler gives me much more grief then the pans do on the street.
Despite what one vendor told me, there is more than one way to mount the GTS spoiler. Right way, and wrong way.
The wrong way was how I found it mounted when I picked up 2511 after the accident repairs. About 3 1/2" clearance and scraping on every curb within eyesight.
I luckily had photos of the original mounting by Dennis Quella and remounted in that manner giving me about 5" clearance.
Dennis sells this spoiler in brittle, crack-prone fiberglass and also flexible, bendable ABS plastic which is quite forgiving of driveway encounters. Only about $100.
Larry
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