Electric Window Problem

Don't think it's the gears. Does'nt really grind. When the window hits it's point where it doesn't want to go any further, It is a click. Like the motor is locking up or something is locking it up and doesn't have enough strength to push the window up of down. I notice even when hand cranking it there is an area where it gets real hard and then gets easier again.

If I get to know this car any better, it may as well be my wife.

Thanks for the inpute.

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Originally posted by Mark:
It sounds like your window regulator is missing some gears (clicking noise more like grinding?). If it was the motor it would not make it up 1/2 way. The best thing to do is take the regulator and motor out. Yeah it's a pain in the a** but you get to know your car better..!

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[This message has been edited by Cozman (edited 06-23-2003).]

You might be interested in this:
http://www.panteraplace.com/page164.htm

The original Todd Reid article is in the SpaceCity Panteras site at: http://www.geocities.com/pocascp/Technical/Pantera_Window_Motors_Replacement.htm

Just try adjusting all the variable adjustments accessible after you take off the door panel. Your nylon gear is not broken because you can 'crank' it up and down. You're hitting a spot of 'resitance' that can be adjust out.

You can shim in or out the 'verical' slider bar. You can take the play out of the four wheels that go up and down on the slider bar. You can adjust the bottom of the window, tilt up or down or level or pushed to top or bottom. Make sure no 'cat whisker' channelling is loose and jamming.

I suggest doing each variable one at at time, optimizing each, before proceeding to the next variable.

If I have to take out the regulator, I'm going with the Aerostar set up Jim refered to in panteraplace.com.

Thanks Jim & Ron. I will look into this tomorrow. The wife (real one)is getting jelious.
I appreciate your help ! Thank you !

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Originally posted by ron norman:
Just try adjusting all the variable adjustments accessible after you take off the door panel. Your nylon gear is not broken because you can 'crank' it up and down. You're hitting a spot of 'resitance' that can be adjust out.

You can shim in or out the 'verical' slider bar. You can take the play out of the four wheels that go up and down on the slider bar. You can adjust the bottom of the window, tilt up or down or level or pushed to top or bottom. Make sure no 'cat whisker' channelling is loose and jamming.

I suggest doing each variable one at at time, optimizing each, before proceeding to the next variable.

If I have to take out the regulator, I'm going with the Aerostar set up Jim refered to in panteraplace.com.

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I just received my new window motor Friday and was gonna put it in after a weekend cruise, so I was motivated. After about four (4) hours of adjusting all kinds of things I can tell you my conclusions.

1) The curvature of the window frame by the door handle is not quite exactly like the curvature of the glass. The glass pushes hard on the outside of the curve at mid way when the glass is fully up. This is the area of resistance. Can't really do anything about that. Once the window gets down about 4", it really zips up or down with speed. It slows drastically at that same spot going up also.
2) The slider bar is not exactly parallel to the guides containing the weatherstrip in the front or rear & can't be adjusted enough.
3) The motor has less power as it gets hotter from going up & down, during testing.

My optimum adjustment:

1) Leave a little play on the 4 wheels that go up & down the slider bar.
2) 1 or 2 washers behind the slider bar at the top seem to angle the glass more in the direction of the guides containing the weatherstrip.
3) I just removed the bolt holding the buttom of the guide altogether and this let it sort of float and gave the window the best speed improvement. It can be removed or reinstalled without even taking the door panel off, so this can be a 2 minute test to see if it helps.
4) One of the 'S' brackets holding the catwhiskers on the bottom horizontal car door was rubbing on the glass, so it got removed and flattened some.
5) The contacts on the electric motor were cleaned and the connectors were tightened a little with some long nose pliers before puhing them back on.

I think the only real solution is the Space Cities Pantera Club design with Aerostar motors. I think that guy really worked on his solution and polished his results up real well, so thanks for the great Pantera Attitude, we sort of share the same problems and solutions. Thanks.

My final set up to get the passenger side window functioning at optimum speed was to put the bolt back in at the bottom of the slider, leave a little play in the bottom right wheel that goes up the slider, and put three washers under the bolt that holds the slider bar to the top frame of the door sheet metal.

The window slides in the front channel, like my driver side window. It was catching on the 'U' shaped rubber with felt that runs up from the back of the door by the door handle. It was folding that over and getting stuck, so I devised a way to adjust the window angle to match the angle of the channel at that location. The cat whiskers at the bottom of the window, on the outside were lifted up with a screwdriver, and I used a #6x3/8 zinc phillips screw to adjust the cat whiskers to push the window in towards the channel, then screwed the new cat whiskers back in place over the top of the phillips #6x3/8 screw, which acted as an adjustment screw (and I had to adjust it a few times). Passenger side window speed: 5 seconds down, 6 seconds up. Driver side window speed: 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. Why is this? Other Pantera guys can't even use the passenger side window. Why always the passenger side window?

Anyway, now I gotta figure out why the passenger side door lock doesn't operate from the outside. I like to let my lady in first! All the heavy guage wire is attached to those little clips on the end and are functioning. I think I'm gonna have to completely dissassemble the lock mechanism itself.

Good luck Cozman! Hope I saved yuou some time. Got me motivated to get it done, but I'm gonna go back later and do the Aerostar motors upgrade.

Thanks Ron. It's great having you do yours and give me something to go on. I am going to tear into mine tomorrow as soon as I figure out why all my lights stop working tonight. But that's the next topic. :-))

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Originally posted by ron norman:
My final set up to get the passenger side window functioning at optimum speed was to put the bolt back in at the bottom of the slider, leave a little play in the bottom right wheel that goes up the slider, and put three washers under the bolt that holds the slider bar to the top frame of the door sheet metal.

The window slides in the front channel, like my driver side window. It was catching on the 'U' shaped rubber with felt that runs up from the back of the door by the door handle. It was folding that over and getting stuck, so I devised a way to adjust the window angle to match the angle of the channel at that location. The cat whiskers at the bottom of the window, on the outside were lifted up with a screwdriver, and I used a #6x3/8 zinc phillips screw to adjust the cat whiskers to push the window in towards the channel, then screwed the new cat whiskers back in place over the top of the phillips #6x3/8 screw, which acted as an adjustment screw (and I had to adjust it a few times). Passenger side window speed: 5 seconds down, 6 seconds up. Driver side window speed: 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. Why is this? Other Pantera guys can't even use the passenger side window. Why always the passenger side window?

Anyway, now I gotta figure out why the passenger side door lock doesn't operate from the outside. I like to let my lady in first! All the heavy guage wire is attached to those little clips on the end and are functioning. I think I'm gonna have to completely dissassemble the lock mechanism itself.

Good luck Cozman! Hope I saved yuou some time. Got me motivated to get it done, but I'm gonna go back later and do the Aerostar motors upgrade.

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Cozman, I bought my Pantera on 5/9/03 and drove it home on 5/16/03. It's gonna have everything fixed that need fixing, but it's pretty much working fine, now. So, sounds like I'm only 6 weeks ahead of you, driving it around and all, sorting out problems. I'll help whenever and however I can. Gonna put in new A-arm and Sway Bar Bushings pretty soon. Gonna have a mechanic friend help me though. Gotta check all the bearings at the same time and may put in Timken roller bearings, a buzz phrase I heard from a local 'Pantera Guy'

Someday, you'll help me, I think we share a common project/hobby!

Check my Post regarding your Headlights! Hope that helps you too! Ciao, arrivaderci!

You bet, Thanks Ron.

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Originally posted by ron norman:
Cozman, I bought my Pantera on 5/9/03 and drove it home on 5/16/03. It's gonna have everything fixed that need fixing, but it's pretty much working fine, now. So, sounds like I'm only 6 weeks ahead of you, driving it around and all, sorting out problems. I'll help whenever and however I can. Gonna put in new A-arm and Sway Bar Bushings pretty soon. Gonna have a mechanic friend help me though. Gotta check all the bearings at the same time and may put in Timken roller bearings, a buzz phrase I heard from a local 'Pantera Guy'

Someday, you'll help me, I think we share a common project/hobby!

Check my Post regarding your Headlights! Hope that helps you too! Ciao, arrivaderci!

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I decided to put my 'new' window motor in since I already had the door panel off anyway. It as not that difficult, took 1 hr 15 min, total. Results: 4 seonds down, 5 seconds up, cutting 1 sec off both directions!

First, the 'new' motor is a used motor from eBay, $40 or $50, not worth it considering the cost to do the Aerostar motors from a salvage yard, but a lot easier, and I don't have a grinding wheel with stand in my garage. So, a bolt on job, I'll chalk up to experience and tinkering. It does shave some time off, maybe a 'real' new motor would work even better. I was more hopeful, because when I spun the shaft of the old vs. 'new' there was a lot more resistance from the magnets and shaft, i.e., the 'new' motor jerked alot more, where the old motor spun more freely. And it did work a little better. Good enough for a long while, Aerostar motors are now way down the list of projects.

Second, a few tips for removal/installation of the Regulator.
1) The screw at the long arm (12" +/-) and the short arm (4" +/1) is not gonna come off and doesn't need to.
2) I used a thin rope, clothes line rope, to hold the window in the up position, Tied from the rear view mirro, through the cat whisker, under the window, over the top of the window, back down through the cat whiskers, through the door frame, and tied to the door lock. Perfect, can raise or lower easily.
3) Mark the wires connected to the motor "Top" and "Bottom" remove wires. Remove the 4 bolts holding the Regulator assy in place. Remove the top bolt holding the Guide bar and the bottom one under the door, and slide this bar out with the Regulator still in the door.
4) Fold the assy that attaches to the window back under to the shortest length, closest to the Regulator, after removing the window screws, and window from assy.
5) Slide it all out by through the longest opening by the rear of door jam, bottom right. No sweat, but no paint to worry about scatching, which was good, scatched some tar off.
6) Regulator motor is easy to take off, you'll see. Check your nylon gear while your this deep in enemy territory. Get the Brass Gears if there are any stress fractures radiating from the middle shaft.
7) If you get the motor in 180 degrees wrong, no worries, I did that, no clearance problems, so don't have to do it again.
8) Almost everything is 10mm, I like that.

Feel better that I did this, could do it again in 45 min., after door panel is removed. Not so bad after all. No major tools needed.

It was suggested that the passenger side window may not have the correct curvature spec'd out and manufactured on the passender side window. That could be the logical explanation why so many Panteras have a very slow moving passenger side window!

That solution appeals to me even more than having the cat whiskers push on the window to guide it into the channel track closest to the door handle. Further evidence supports this hypothesis: (1) when I tested my 'new' window motor without the window, it was dragging at certain places during the arc. WITHOUT THE WINDOW. (2) when I tried optimizing the window speed adjusting all the variables, and let the guide bar 'float' with the bottom bolt removed, the guide bar moved a considerable distance, at the loose end, where the bolt was disconnected at the bottom. Back and forth at the bottom, as the window went up and down. Ame thing happened wneh I anchored the bottom of the Guide bar and let the top float. It moved at least 0.5". This is the cause & effect of the resistance. It just makes sense.

Suggested remedy: Remove the guide bars on both the L & R windows, set them on the table and see if the arc is the same. Got a bigger project going now, but I'll report my findings later as I get back to this if no one else experiments with this and informs us.

all this got me to thinking. so off to the garage with a stop watch. Both left and right windows are very close at 3 sec up and almost 3 sec down. Now to get the car from 0 to 60 mph flat. getting closer.
Todd # 3620
PS. ain't life funner with a pantera..
makes one ponder how the other people live?

I'm an attorney and hear about peoples' problems all day long. In my free time, all I care about since I got my Pantera is my Pantera's problems. Pantera Guys seem to get a kick out of every aspect of their Pantera. I guess I fantasize I'm a Pantera Factory Mechanic when I'm working on it, a Factory Pantera Race Driver when I'm Driving it, a Factory Representative when I'm stepping out of it and people flock up to me to ask questions, and it goes on and on. And I love every aspect of it. I'd never want a Ferrari because only factory Ferrari parts fit, the people are way different, and don't work on their cars. And the performance modifications will come later, since I just got this Beast. The day will NEVER come, when it's done! Are you the guy who wrote the article for installing Aerostar motors? I think I can understand that guy pretty well.... We would REALLY Get A Kick talking about Panteras!! And I'm sure we would both learn something. 0 - 60mph? Is that in 1st gear or 1st and 2nd gear? Or just 2nd gear? Ha, ha, ha. Gotta try that!!!

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Originally posted by ron norman:
0 - 60mph? Is that in 1st gear or 1st and 2nd gear? Or just 2nd gear? Ha, ha, ha. Gotta try that!!!

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That's 1st gear territory, while you're on your way to 130mph in 2nd gear!

Yes, that's me. I did have some help from a pantera dude name Dick Koch. I did the mod to solve a problam I had in rebuilding my pantera in a box, that I got from a guy that took it all apart. With only one motor working and in a up-grade state of mind I went looking for a beter mouse trap. Only now I have a broke rocker. So no pantera for a week or two for me.
Can someone please do the math for me? 335/35/17 on the rear with the stock gearing. What is the mph at 8,000 RPM? In 1st, 2nd,and so on?
Thanks Todd #3620

Thanks for writing that article for all of us to do to our Panteras. I'm gonna do that Aerostar modification at some near future time.

My Pantera is on jack stands now with new A-Arm bushings going in. (everyone else calls them Control Arms.) So I can't do the math for the 8,000 rpm in each gear right now.

What is the diameter of your wheel/tire combination in the rear. I'm running 15" stock Campagnolos, but if the diameter is the same, I'll get you the 8,000 rpm/speed equivalent @8,000 rpm in each gear, in about 2 to 3 weeks, if no one else does 1st.

May 1973 MOTOR TREND Magazine reports, on page 126, that the 1973 Pantera has the following specifications:

1st: 41 mph @ 5,000 rpm
2nd: 62 mph @ 5,000 rpm
3rd: 87 mph @ 5,000 rpm
4th: 108 mph @ 5,000 rpm
5th: 131.5 mph @ 5,000 rpm

So, at 8,000 rpm:

1st: 65.6 mph
2nd: 99.2 mph
3rd: 139.2 mph
4th: 172.8 mph
5th: 209.6 mph

This is with Tire Size: H60x15, original tires in the rear. I do not know how that compares to the diameter of your rear wheel/tire size, but I'm guessing add or subtract 5-10% to the mph's for each gear. I'd have to get out the old Calculus and College Algebra books to add or subtract the radius/diameter difference and 'do the math'.

Close enough answer for you? The answer is doggone fast!