Electronic Paddle Shifting ZF 5 & 6 Speeds

Hi again Lloyd and followers of this topic. Here's research product for your eyes only. See this link or do an internet search with the words "electronic shifting paddle shifter" to get results:

http://websearcht.cs.com/wm/search?query=electronic+shifting+paddle+shifter&fromPage=WMTSuggestion

Go carts have electronic paddle shifters avaiable for purchase already, motorcycles are getting electronic paddle shifting.... (synopsis)

I was watching the Formula One season opener and a program preceeding it called F-1 Decade on Speed channel this weekend. The 1995 Gran Prix was re-broadcast in part. A driver in the 1995 race was suffering from pain and numbness in his shoulder and the commentator was saying that it was making it difficult for him to shift gears. Thus, 1995 F-1's didn't have electronic paddle shifting. I think it's only about 5 year old technology. Patent protection only lasts 20 years, and may be avoidable if independently developed, but I don't know about this legal issue.... I say that because it's being offered for go-carts, so maybe they pay royalties? I don't know, but I know it's coming. If they pay royalties, the royalty fee must be pretty reasonable. Any licensing possibilities there that the go-cart crowd came up with? Maybe they invented it?

Please excuse me for dreaming on your PIBB Forum, but I'm visualizing a very top end Pantera with a 351-Windsor at 427 cid, stroker, efi, etc., performance upgrades not complicated by smog and emissions laws due to 1971-74 vintage. This Pantera has a computerized electronic paddle shift 6-speed ZF and beats almost anything but the Saleen, with maybe 0 to 60 in the 3.2 second range.

If you watch the programs this weekend, you'll see the Formula One 'rules change' part of the story for changes from the 2004 to 2005 season. This is relevant to the dream Pantera I'm imagining because it shows how the ground effects work for the rear of the car. The rear wheel area has air deflectors which trail off the rear of the bodywork and go almost to the edge of the rear wheel. This is an essential issue for matching performance of the top end exotics avaiable today. 230 mph requires upgraged technology theory and design, which is avaiable for your viewing pleasure on Speed channel during this upcoming F-1 season. (Next rcae is in two weeks in Malaysia.)

It seems possible to offer such ground effects for the Pantera, doesn't it? Then, with the best brakes and 'load levelling' i.e. 'active suspension' or tunable suspension, and hydraulic or air adjustable shocks, to lower it for the track or open road top speed event, or raise it for trips around town or entering the driveway, gives the vehicle best g-force loadings for high speed stabilty, cornering, accelerating and stopping stability or parcticality. Safety and performance....

Only a final, sort of unorganized thought, I think it most marketable and valuable to have a paddle shifting ZF that has a feature where it can be electronically and manually operated with the stock gears shift lever or with electronic paddle mode. (The gear selector would probably stay in neutral position during paddle shift mode.) A downside to electronic shifting I noticed during the F-1 event was the engine must be operating to change gears. (An early retiree of the event had to have the corner workers engage the back-up neutral switch to rol him off the side of the track.) So, I was thinking it would be nice to be able to manually engage the ZF in a garage environment or roadside emergency, or puch a switch in the interior and change modes during everyday driving.

Maybe some of these parts are available already. Heck, I don't know. But I'd search robotics suppliers and aircraft suppliers too to see what is comercially avaiable already. Lots of learning, lots of cool info to look at and think about. I'm sure I'll think of something else to tell you later. Or you can tell me to forget it, but I won't be discouraged until then. In which case, I guess I'd have to figure it out myself.... Adios, VFI

Oops, looks like BMW has had electronic paddle shifting available on production vehicles since 1999, and this 2001 article about BMW's second generation paddle shifting system looks authoritative and comprehensive. So, it seems like ZF and BMW already have two things in common, German origin. Maybe BMW's technology is adaptable? I'd love to be able to be able to have it, sometime in the future, when I win the lottery.... Guess I'm just thinking out loud and already years behind some folks on the learning curve of paddle shifting. The schematics or diagrams look fairly involved, but it's already available, which means someone is probably already experimenting with parts they've obtained. Hmmm, when they figure it out, and get a kit into production, sure hope they educate me a little more. My Wish List to make me put a little more effort into the 9 to 5 part of life....
http://www.bmwcca.org/Roundel/2001/11/SMG.shtml

Hi Lloyd,
I'm watching Speed TV and there's Rally racing on. The commercial came on and I have to ask you, can you please write an article.

These Rally cars, Subaru, Mazda, Peugot, etc., all have the paddle shifting. I'd love to see a spy photo of the shift mechanism. Can you explain this electronic paddle shifting stuff to us a little?

I can search on-line auto magazines and see if there's any pictures online, etc., like to use with permission. If you want.

You could copyright it and say "used with permission of PI/POCA" or however you wanted to do it. Then you could shop the article "for the normal contributing writer fee", and maybe get it published in Road and Track, Motor Trend, etc. Maybe get paid, also good to have hanging on the wall...a copy of the article in these magazines, like behind the counter on above your desk..

All really interesting stuff to learn about, for all car enthusiasts. There's got to be an article in a magazine already, like for background research, not written in the same format, and not plaigeristic, just cool stuff to read up on. Thanks. Ron

Hey Lloyd, I'm thinking get the BMW Model Number, go to the dealer, have the parts guy pull up the page with all the parts to the paddle shifting system, take a few notes, try to get a web address for the parts like on-line spec sheet, tech info, draw out a schematic for us and read a few of the other articles about the six speed paddle shifting car's mechanicals, functions, etc. Then write the story.

Maybe you want to co-author an article with me, or maybe you want to say: "go ahead and write the article, I'll read it with interest."

I think we'd get credibility saying reprinted with perission of Pantera International, for example.

Adios amigo, Ron

p.s. If this stuff is top secret, tell me not to talk about it.

Years ago I was thinking of becoming a patent attorney, so I went to the university library and started reading some patents. I found myself reading patents having to do with cars and engines. They really explained the theory of operation clearly and had schematics and diagrams that laid things out in a very easy to understand format. Then I started thinking 'this would be the way to do it. Watch patents that were just expiring, then there's no patent protection and the market is wide open for competition. This would be the beginning of business opportunities. Corporations must be thinking like this too.'

Patents are written, then a little time goes by, then products appear. Then more time goes by and patent licensing begins and more applications appear with products from different companies being offered.

This paddle shifting stroy should probably begin with the patent. Just lay it out, give the credit and date for the patent. The wise reader says 'that means this patent expires on this date, 20 years later' and starts thinking about his plan. Sound exploitive, but that's the way it is. It's not exploitive to haul your chips off the table when you win, it's just the rules of play.

Maybe I need to spend a few hours in the library again, locate the electronic shifting transmission patent, and start the story there....

Maybe the patent has already expired.

I was watching the Barrett-Jackson Auction and one of the 'rods had a 'typewriter' push-button gear selector mounted on the dashboard. I remember those push-button transmission gear selectors on dashboards of some factory cars in the 50's or 60's. Maybe the patent is already expired and the doors are wide open! That would be the easiest way to figure out how these electronic 'paddle shifting' transmissions work, and explain it to the readers, who, if they are like me, are interested to know more about this topic.

Hey Lloyd, sorry to use your Forum to be thinking out loud. Please bear with me, we may be onto something here. Just need to think a little more clearly and in a structured kind of way to get to the result.... Ron

For an inexpensive ZF Lab set-up, I'd substitute one of the old 'typewriter' push button electrical switches for 'the steering wheel'. The 'paddle shifters' are just the typwriter buttons. R, N, 1, 2, 3 buttons. Then just work on those gears on the lab ZF for now.
Add in 4 and 5 buttons later.

The main focus is a ZF compatable, hydrulic operation shift mechanism. I wonder if one of the old typewriter transmissions had a shift mechanism that can generate some ideas.

Expense control is using as many old, easily obtainable parts as possible: electric to hydraulc switch/valves and that kind of stuff. From the junk yard, as much as possible.

Let's see what else. Shift speed can be quickened by timing the clutch in out with the 'computer' and that's something to work on. The computer simply tells the switches and hydraulics what to do. The computer inputs for making that decision are rpm's and speed. There might be something already available to do these operations. I'm out of ideas on this section of the development.

Optimization can come later. Simply solve refinements of the paddle shifter later. The components of the overall task divided so none holds up development in the other areas of development. And done as simply and economically as possible.

As I use this forum as an R&D note book....

My buddy said the Buick Road Master's typewriter shifting buttons actually pushed cables to actuate the automatic transmission.

Not much help for this topic. Info gathering phase continues.

There is no good way to get the stock ZF to paddle shift,BECAUSE the synchro ring is not a triple cone ring, witch you need to slow the inertia of the gear down to allow the sliding sleeve to engauge the gear for a quick shift. Not to cut this short but if you don't have the right synchro rings it won't happen, bottom line.

Thank you for thinking about it and responding, Lloyd. I'm disappointed. I'm impressed by the explanation. Life goes on. Great work getting the 6 speed ZF functional and on the Ford GT. Thanks again, Ron

Lloyd,

Can the right synchros be made for the ZF to paddle shift?

Michael

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox.htm

Good luck getting that one to fit.

We built Dereks ZF about 9 years ago, he added the air shifter but still has the same problem of a single cone synchro ring, that still grinds at shift because one ring can't slow the gear down fast to engauge at the speed you need for the squential set up, Howstuffworks.com is a great way to see how a dog ring box in a race car works, (dog rings are a 6 cog ring that not synchro)

I did an internet search using the exact words: "triple cone ring" and came up with a few hits, including a technical article in a Corvette or GM or hot rod magazine. I tried to look it up again, but their website only let me read the article once, then after that the link to the article wouldn't link me to it, instead I got a pop-up which told me how to subscribe.

This article explained how and why, with photos, for several pages, the procedure for updating a Corvette 6 speed manual transmission with "triple cone rings". I wanted to post a link to this article in this post, but couldn't.

The article explained why one transmission was a poor candidate for the triple cone rings and their different than stock, project tranny was suitable for upgrading. It explained how triple cone rings work, how they "installed the parts" to way, way over simplify this technical article.

If my wallet was so fat I had to put it on a diet, I'd say, "Hey Lloyd, can you ask the guy who wrote the article if he can machine and modify some suitable, off-the-shelf triple cone rings, so they'll work with my ZF? Like here's the situation, dimensions and specs?"

The article's author has a transmission shop and contact info in his article.... But then... my wallet ain't so fat, and I ain't askin'! I'm just watching and learning, for now. Very kool to learn about it! Yahooo, Buckaroo! If my wallet suddenly won't fit in my wallet anymore, I'll be askin' though!