Does anybody have a handle on the consequences of the law in California, should you replace your engine, even in a smog testing exempt car, should a cop take a critical look? The rumor I hear is not good.
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quote:
Originally posted by phill1:
Does anybody have a handle on the consequences of the law in California, should you replace your engine, even in a smog testing exempt car, should a cop take a critical look? The rumor I hear is not good.
I am not sure of the consequences with engine mods, but at any car show I go to, I see 700+ HP engines and all kinds of body mods and the cars have fresh registration tags. However, if you get stopped, Gum Shoes and Flat Foots of course have to site some type of vehicle code violation, and then it is probably up to the Judge. There are all kinds of modified show cars out there absent wipers, bumpers, signals, etc. But ss for the real consequences, I would suspect the state codes would site something to the effect of fines. And believe me, CA has a good list of codes to look at.
Simple answer to your question, is I don't know the consequences. However, here are the vehicle codes in which we good taxpaying CA residents love so much.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=veh&codebody=&hits=20
You forgot to mention our modified Headlights! Marlin.
STEP AWAY FROM THE CAR!!!! HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE UM!
YOUR TAIL LIGHTS ARE ON FUNNY.........YOUR BUMPER IS UP
SIDE DOWN...................YOUR GONNA BE HAVING COFFEE WITH
MARTHA STEWART SOON ...... JACKO!!
Poor Phill 1. He asks a reasonable question, then look what happens. Won't see that on a Ferrari web board. Pantera owners are a different breed, and thank God for that! He does have a good point however. We all see the 700+ HP cars at car shows with huge blowers sticking out of the cut out hood (non Pantera), and yet they have fresh registration tags (in CA anyway).
I suppose that sometimes you just have to take things into your own hands with these matters. This is how I showed up in court for having no wiper blades:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/97287519/123422042GNJmiL
I suppose that sometimes you just have to take things into your own hands with these matters. This is how I showed up in court for having no wiper blades:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/97287519/123422042GNJmiL
I have since made a couple of calls to CARB, and Emissions labs trying to find out why a stock GT5-S is prohibited from being registered in CA. Basically, it is because you would have to pass the CA emissions requirements for the year of your car. While the Amerisport emissions stuff as new would pass Federal regs (possibly to CA standards also)it would be hard to replicate today. So the alternative seems in essence to be, complete engine and related systems replacement. You'd likely have to go to a EFI system and add cats and so forth.
The next part is the bombshell. The CARB guy says that any police officer, who chooses to and looks at your engine can write you a fix it ticket if he has a reasonable belief the engine is not stock. What is involved in such a ticket? Replace your engine and related componets to OEM standards, emission exempt or not. It seems overly harsh to me. Does anybody know if this is true?
The next part is the bombshell. The CARB guy says that any police officer, who chooses to and looks at your engine can write you a fix it ticket if he has a reasonable belief the engine is not stock. What is involved in such a ticket? Replace your engine and related componets to OEM standards, emission exempt or not. It seems overly harsh to me. Does anybody know if this is true?
Well you know sum times during an Inspection we have found a Box of Donuts in the trunk..........
These people are free to go!....Sorry our Mistake!
quote:
Originally posted by phill1:
The next part is the bombshell. The CARB guy says that any police officer, who chooses to and looks at your engine can write you a fix it ticket if he has a reasonable belief the engine is not stock. What is involved in such a ticket? Replace your engine and related componets to OEM standards, emission exempt or not. It seems overly harsh to me. Does anybody know if this is true?[/B]
That's sad about a real GT5S and the CA regs. In relation to the issue of being stopped by a local Gum Shoe and he writes a fix it ticket, I believe there still must be a vehicle code citation number for this. This ain't like Dirty Harry where any Flat Foot can just issue a ticket without a citation tied to it. If you find a citation code in the CA code link above, then I suppose you could get that particular ticket, especially if you draw attention to yourself by reving the engine next to them at a stop light.
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
You forgot to mention our modified Headlights! Marlin.
Oops, sorry, I also forgot to mention the lack of ugly front license plate either, and also exceeding decibles at the exhaust pipe when wakeing neighbors at 5:30 AM. But at least we have no damn smog inspection requirement though!!!
I received an answer from the CA CARB people today regarding two owner scenarios. It seems engine modifications are covered under CA code VC 27156. Below are the two scenarios and the CARB board reply.
Scenarios:
Dear Sir or Madame:
My question is what specific CA code(s) controls the following scenarios.
Also, what, if any, are the consequences to a vehicle owner in the scenario.
What if any corrections might need to be made? Under what conditions could
or would a police officer have the right to inspect and cite if able, the
owner of such a modified vehicle? Are these potential enforcements (if any)
common or basically ignored by officers?
Example:
Scenario #1 Mr. Jones has a vehicle manufactured between 1971 and 1974 legally sold
new in CA. Scenario #2 A gray market car not sold new in CA, registered in another
state manufactured between 1986 and 1989.
In both cases the owner decides to remove his OEM engine and replace it with
a 500hp hot rod engine with no attempt to maintain any original emission
equipment. Since he is smog testing exempt he feels he has no potential
adverse consequences with this modification.
#2 Grey market car, legally registered in another state intended for CA.
Can the car be registered in CA and under what conditions.
I am under the impression that owner #1 is in violation of the CA law and
returning the engine to OEM specifications would be required.
Could you please advise me on this matter.
CARB REPLY
California Vehicle Code Section 27156 applies to all vehicles subject to either CARB or US EPA certification regardless of whether they are tested under the current Smog Check program or not. Over the years there have been several changes to California's Smog check program, but no changes has been made to VC 27156. Since car #1 was CA certified it must maintain its original emissions control system or follow the requirements for Executive Order modifications or the current engine change policy to remain in compliance with VC 27156. Vehicles receiving citations under this VC code section must be cleared by a state referee test station regardless of the model year of the vehicle.
As for car #2, CA Health and Safety Code section 44202 requires all 1975 and newer Direct Import (greymarket) vehicles to obtain a CA Certificate of Conformance at a CA certified lab in order to be registered in California. Since this is a performance based requirement, the engine the vehicle owner chooses to use in the vehicle is not an issue since the test will prove compliance (or failure) with the emission standard for the year of the vehicle. It is in the owners best interest to select an engine and emission control system capable of meeting the standard and that is durable. This is because once the vehicle passes the Direct Import (lab test) the selected engine and emissions control system becomes the "certification package" that must be maintained, and is prohibited from being modified as with any other CA certified vehicle. In other words the "hot rod" engine can be used in the greymarket vehicle provided the end result is a vehicle which passes the direct import standards for the model year for the vehicle.
As for the issues and policies regarding enforcement of emissions regulations on individually owned and operated vehicles outside of the regular smog check program I would recommend contacting the California Highway Patrol or your local police department. Should you have any questions or need additional assistance please contact us at (800) 242-4450.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: engine replacement
From: "Percy Hill"
Scenarios:
Dear Sir or Madame:
My question is what specific CA code(s) controls the following scenarios.
Also, what, if any, are the consequences to a vehicle owner in the scenario.
What if any corrections might need to be made? Under what conditions could
or would a police officer have the right to inspect and cite if able, the
owner of such a modified vehicle? Are these potential enforcements (if any)
common or basically ignored by officers?
Example:
Scenario #1 Mr. Jones has a vehicle manufactured between 1971 and 1974 legally sold
new in CA. Scenario #2 A gray market car not sold new in CA, registered in another
state manufactured between 1986 and 1989.
In both cases the owner decides to remove his OEM engine and replace it with
a 500hp hot rod engine with no attempt to maintain any original emission
equipment. Since he is smog testing exempt he feels he has no potential
adverse consequences with this modification.
#2 Grey market car, legally registered in another state intended for CA.
Can the car be registered in CA and under what conditions.
I am under the impression that owner #1 is in violation of the CA law and
returning the engine to OEM specifications would be required.
Could you please advise me on this matter.
CARB REPLY
California Vehicle Code Section 27156 applies to all vehicles subject to either CARB or US EPA certification regardless of whether they are tested under the current Smog Check program or not. Over the years there have been several changes to California's Smog check program, but no changes has been made to VC 27156. Since car #1 was CA certified it must maintain its original emissions control system or follow the requirements for Executive Order modifications or the current engine change policy to remain in compliance with VC 27156. Vehicles receiving citations under this VC code section must be cleared by a state referee test station regardless of the model year of the vehicle.
As for car #2, CA Health and Safety Code section 44202 requires all 1975 and newer Direct Import (greymarket) vehicles to obtain a CA Certificate of Conformance at a CA certified lab in order to be registered in California. Since this is a performance based requirement, the engine the vehicle owner chooses to use in the vehicle is not an issue since the test will prove compliance (or failure) with the emission standard for the year of the vehicle. It is in the owners best interest to select an engine and emission control system capable of meeting the standard and that is durable. This is because once the vehicle passes the Direct Import (lab test) the selected engine and emissions control system becomes the "certification package" that must be maintained, and is prohibited from being modified as with any other CA certified vehicle. In other words the "hot rod" engine can be used in the greymarket vehicle provided the end result is a vehicle which passes the direct import standards for the model year for the vehicle.
As for the issues and policies regarding enforcement of emissions regulations on individually owned and operated vehicles outside of the regular smog check program I would recommend contacting the California Highway Patrol or your local police department. Should you have any questions or need additional assistance please contact us at (800) 242-4450.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: engine replacement
From: "Percy Hill"
Thank God I don't live in California, we in Florida may not get elections right but at least they don't screw with our cars like that. I may someday get in trouble for lack of windshield wipers and substitution of PIAA quad driving lights for my headlight system, but I can always change those if I had to.
thank GOD Florida got the elections right because I would have banned the car all together and we
ALL would be walking! (read my book)
[This message has been edited by RoBeRt (edited 03-12-2004).]
My sugestion would be to move from California. How can the government continue to do the things they do and expect people to continue living there?
Gary
Gary
I'm not saying we got the election wrong, we were just the laughing stock of the nation due to our "hanging chads" and other such nonsense.
quote:
Originally posted by gow589:
My sugestion would be to move from California. How can the government continue to do the things they do and expect people to continue living there?
Gary
Yes, although the CA laws are stupid, there are still a few benefits left to keep some of us here, like the weather, beach, thongs at the beach, and nice clean/dry Panteras (even if they have to sit in the garage like trophies).
Seems like changing your engine is like rolling the dice. The odds are probably good that you won't get pulled over unless you were doing something stupid to offend a Gume Shoe, but as Clint says..."do you feel lucky...punk"
Below is CA Vehicle Code 27156 link that is referenced in the post above, just one of 42,277 CA Vehicle Codes. As mentioned above, seems to pertain mostly to smog equipment only, and not modifications to the actual engine. However, throwing in a 408 aluminum block and hooking up all the required devices may not work too well...hee, hee, hee.
All you other non-CA boys, watch your legislation and legislators in other states, as 42,277+ vehicle codes could some day come your way. CA is the leader in this type of crap, and others often look to what CA is doing to create their own laws to make their own jobs more secure with additional laws that need government people to enforce them.
Happy motoring & watch your rear view mirror! Even with a 408 block, it is difficult to outrun a Flat Foot helicopter.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=27001-28000&file=27150-27159
All you other non-CA boys, watch your legislation and legislators in other states, as 42,277+ vehicle codes could some day come your way. CA is the leader in this type of crap, and others often look to what CA is doing to create their own laws to make their own jobs more secure with additional laws that need government people to enforce them.
Happy motoring & watch your rear view mirror! Even with a 408 block, it is difficult to outrun a Flat Foot helicopter.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=27001-28000&file=27150-27159
Did some stinkin smog law just pass here in CA this month so that we have to smog our cars again?