Well I got to be like the other 74,000 workers and had to walk off the job today at 11:00AM, our union leaders have declared a strike and just pray for all of us. I hope the lord will take care of us.
Jeff
Original Post
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Good luck Jeff. I hope you can make GM see the error of its ways.
Jeffs...
I hope thing work out for you! I was laid off two weeks ago(no union behind me)I used to belong to union in another field.
I always wonder how quick the negotiations would go IF the UNION REPS. DID NOT GET PAID while YOU are on strike? (with NO pay)
OK, I got my flame suit on!
Good Luck
I hope thing work out for you! I was laid off two weeks ago(no union behind me)I used to belong to union in another field.
I always wonder how quick the negotiations would go IF the UNION REPS. DID NOT GET PAID while YOU are on strike? (with NO pay)
OK, I got my flame suit on!
Good Luck
Jeff my thoughts are with you and your wife.
with care, George
with care, George
quote:I always wonder how quick the negotiations would go IF the UNION REPS. DID NOT GET PAID while YOU are on strike? (with NO pay)
Curt,
Why only wonder about the paid Union Reps?? How about the management side, too?
But basically, one SHOULD get paid when one works. Having sat on Union/Management committees, I can tell you finding the common ground is not as easy as outsiders would think it should be.
When someone badmouths Unions, I often want to ask if they, or spouse, family, children or their parents enjoy, or enjoyed, employment that provides:
-Safe and sanitary working conditions
-Heat in Winter and cooling in Summer
-honest accounting of hours worked and wages earned
-forty hour workweeks
-vacations - paid or not
-sick leave
-holiday pay
-retirement benefits
-health care benefits
-dental benefits
-employee discounts
NONE of the above would be willingly given by most, if not all, employers.
The only reason any of us, union members or not, now enjoy these benefits of employment is because your grandparents fought to organize unions, or went on strike, and in some cases gave their lives to better their family's lives.
Over the years, the benefits earned by Unions have moved into non-union jobs, but most non-union workers never seem to realize this is why THEY have the benefits they take for granted.
When all the Unions are busted, and all the worker-protecting laws are abolished or ignored - something many Free Capitalism Supporters are wishing for - how long do you think the benefits American workers take for granted will continue to be provided by their 'compassionate" employers?
Look around you - it is happening NOW.
And you may be next....
Jeff - hang Tough, and hang Proud. Your battle is honorable!! It isn't the workers that have brought GM down - it is management, and we ALL know that.
Larry - Proud Union member since 1985
International Brotherhood Of Electrical Workers
I.B.E.W Local # 100 - Fresno, California
Journeyman Inside Wireman
My 2 cents.
I;m an Union Employer and a 4th Generation Union Member. Its a fact that the Non Union workers salaries are guaged on the Union Rates.
With thats said Unions get a bad name with the Dead Wood that sits around drinking coffee and producing a poor product which only amounts to about 15% of the members. I often wonder when I drive by an non union office building how much dead wood is inside .. but I dont have to go inside because they are all standing outside smoking cigarettes .. LOL
Never the less the USA has the highest GNP in the world .. I know is dwindling .. but it isnt due to UNIONS... although the Colleges are brain washing or young of that fact. Its due to the BIG BUSINESS making more and more profits and pissing it away investing in over seas.
I sit on a negociating commitee and I fight the battle where its due and never to put someone out of work ... there is a happy medium and the workers deserve to make a honest living .. and the BOSS deserves to make a profit ... but beware ... the immigrants of today are becoming citizens, our young college people are finding that the UNION job pays better then and office jobs, and we are headed into the largest LABOR SHORTAGE since WW2. As soon as this war is over the AMERICAN WORKER in the next 10 years will gain the upper hand. And China also has a Labor Shortage ..so they have met there maker.
JEFF HANG IN THERE ..BELIEVE ME ITS NOT ABOUT THE UNION DELEGATES GETTING PAID HIS SALARY WHILE YOUR OUT ... ITS ABOUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SALARIES .. LOSE THIS BATTLE AND YOU WILL LOSE 20 YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR WHAT YOU HAVE. BEST OF LUCK.
Ron
I;m an Union Employer and a 4th Generation Union Member. Its a fact that the Non Union workers salaries are guaged on the Union Rates.
With thats said Unions get a bad name with the Dead Wood that sits around drinking coffee and producing a poor product which only amounts to about 15% of the members. I often wonder when I drive by an non union office building how much dead wood is inside .. but I dont have to go inside because they are all standing outside smoking cigarettes .. LOL
Never the less the USA has the highest GNP in the world .. I know is dwindling .. but it isnt due to UNIONS... although the Colleges are brain washing or young of that fact. Its due to the BIG BUSINESS making more and more profits and pissing it away investing in over seas.
I sit on a negociating commitee and I fight the battle where its due and never to put someone out of work ... there is a happy medium and the workers deserve to make a honest living .. and the BOSS deserves to make a profit ... but beware ... the immigrants of today are becoming citizens, our young college people are finding that the UNION job pays better then and office jobs, and we are headed into the largest LABOR SHORTAGE since WW2. As soon as this war is over the AMERICAN WORKER in the next 10 years will gain the upper hand. And China also has a Labor Shortage ..so they have met there maker.
JEFF HANG IN THERE ..BELIEVE ME ITS NOT ABOUT THE UNION DELEGATES GETTING PAID HIS SALARY WHILE YOUR OUT ... ITS ABOUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SALARIES .. LOSE THIS BATTLE AND YOU WILL LOSE 20 YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR WHAT YOU HAVE. BEST OF LUCK.
Ron
Thanks so much everyone. Ron and Larry I agree whole heartily, the working class in this country is on a very sad downward spiral. DELPHI gets a judge to agree to $14 a hour for its workers while higher ups get million dollar bonuses. Companies close there doors to send the plants to China or whoever is the lowest price, be it enviromental, safety, or wages.
Now the persons who all want to drive the middle class into oblivian now want to let Mexican trucks and drivers into this country. That will lead to outright safety deaths from sharing the roads with these trucks. All the while the drivers are earning maybe $2 a hour. Where to you think the high paid truckers are going to be?? I hope the Teamsters can stop this outlandish display of pure UNAMERICAN GREED.
Ron Geltifinger said it so true today while he was giving his news conference: GM wants it there way. Doesnt matter if they are stoned wrong or not. That is the attitude I deal with everday at work. THAT is why the auto industry is in such a sad state. One quick example. I was told to hang a package hoist onto a post crane setup. The beam is rated for 200 lbs. The hoist was rated for 500lbs. Can you see a problem here?? The higher ups just told the supervisors to get it done!! Now I am Nationally Certified to Inspect and work on cranes. I refused to do this for the obvious safety violations that were present. My supervisor told me that there was nothing wrong and to do the job. I informed him that he did not have the experiance or training to make me. I informed our plants designated crane eng and he told me to stick to my guns. Which I have. For you that do not know. Anyone who works on or installs a crane that is unsafe. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for it...meaning if someone were to die I could and more then likly end up in jail AND sued in civil court for negligence. Well Ive stood on this soap box long enough. I do respect all of you guys saying these kind and encouraging words. My family and I thank you.
Jeff
Now the persons who all want to drive the middle class into oblivian now want to let Mexican trucks and drivers into this country. That will lead to outright safety deaths from sharing the roads with these trucks. All the while the drivers are earning maybe $2 a hour. Where to you think the high paid truckers are going to be?? I hope the Teamsters can stop this outlandish display of pure UNAMERICAN GREED.
Ron Geltifinger said it so true today while he was giving his news conference: GM wants it there way. Doesnt matter if they are stoned wrong or not. That is the attitude I deal with everday at work. THAT is why the auto industry is in such a sad state. One quick example. I was told to hang a package hoist onto a post crane setup. The beam is rated for 200 lbs. The hoist was rated for 500lbs. Can you see a problem here?? The higher ups just told the supervisors to get it done!! Now I am Nationally Certified to Inspect and work on cranes. I refused to do this for the obvious safety violations that were present. My supervisor told me that there was nothing wrong and to do the job. I informed him that he did not have the experiance or training to make me. I informed our plants designated crane eng and he told me to stick to my guns. Which I have. For you that do not know. Anyone who works on or installs a crane that is unsafe. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for it...meaning if someone were to die I could and more then likly end up in jail AND sued in civil court for negligence. Well Ive stood on this soap box long enough. I do respect all of you guys saying these kind and encouraging words. My family and I thank you.
Jeff
quote:Anyone who works on or installs a crane that is unsafe. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for it...meaning if someone were to die I could and more then likly end up in jail AND sued in civil court for negligence. Well Ive stood on this soap box long enough. Jeff
Well said, Jeff. The view from the soapbox is better than the one between bars - either real or imagined. Doing what's right always wins (in the spiritual reward even if nowhere else) but I know being right doesn't pay the mortgage. Life is indeed a balance of conflict and resolution, the practical and the ideal sometimes at odds.
Your request for prayer is a good one. This situation may be designed for you to take a different road. The company I'd poured my heart into for 8 years got sold to some people who - in my estimation - didn't care. Further, not a dime of the 7 figures paid for the company came my way, though repeatedly indicated it would.
The wake up call rang loudly in my life.
Things have worked out career-wise since then, but most assuredly the initial fear to step away, and the confidence for having done so was the larger lesson. Sorry to get preachy, but I felt your "breadwinner" concerns for your family, especially at the oft uncontrollable hands of others, and it's a detached feeling.
You clearly have priorities in order. Search your soul for where they're leading you, and IF in another direction, you just may look back on this hardship as a disguised blessing.
Give me your address in a PM and I'll send you a book worth reading, "The 4 Hour WorkWeek" by Timothy Ferris. The title is possibly not your goal, but the information inside is priceless, eye-opening and encouraging. In the meantime, reading Job and his challenges should make your burden seem light!
With an aligned heart and mind, it'll work out Jeff. Always does.
My prayers are with you, JeffS.
Michael
Michael
The Kansas City Fairfax plant is the closest thing to me that is affected & I have a lot of friends in KC that are employed there. My thoughts are with you & all the other families involved and hope a settlement can be reached ASAP. Take Care & Good Luck!
Best of luck Jeff! Keep us posted.
-William
-William
Wish you the best Jeff! Hope things are worked out soon!
Curt,
Why only wonder about the paid Union Reps?? How about the management side, too?
But basically, one SHOULD get paid when one works. Having sat on Union/Management committees, I can tell you finding the common ground is not as easy as outsiders would think it should be.
When someone badmouths Unions, I often want to ask if they, or spouse, family, children or their parents enjoy, or enjoyed, employment that provides:
-Safe and sanitary working conditions
-Heat in Winter and cooling in Summer
-honest accounting of hours worked and wages earned
-forty hour workweeks
-vacations - paid or not
-sick leave
-holiday pay
-retirement benefits
-health care benefits
-dental benefits
-employee discounts
NONE of the above would be willingly given by most, if not all, employers.
The only reason any of us, union members or not, now enjoy these benefits of employment is because your grandparents fought to organize unions, or went on strike, and in some cases gave their lives to better their family's lives.
Over the years, the benefits earned by Unions have moved into non-union jobs, but most non-union workers never seem to realize this is why THEY have the benefits they take for granted.
When all the Unions are busted, and all the worker-protecting laws are abolished or ignored - something many Free Capitalism Supporters are wishing for - how long do you think the benefits American workers take for granted will continue to be provided by their 'compassionate" employers?
Look around you - it is happening NOW.
And you may be next....
Larry, we're all friends here but I've got to throw in my 2 cents..
I have no problem with unions, until they affect my life. Re: road blocks, work to rule, strikes in public services.
I have a few questions. Answer them honestly.
Do you or anyone in your family shop at Walmart and perhaps buy non-union made items?
Have you ever done a side job?
Have you ever worked while on strike?
If it's OK to block my roads during a strike, then would you be OK with your neighbour pulling your hydro meter when he has a problem with his boss?
I'm a non-union tradesman and a former union steelworker. I lasted a year in the union. Ron's right. 85% of the guys just wanted to work and there were a handful of troublemakers. They were the union stewards. They bred hate and laziness. They threatened young guys that they would be physically hurt if they didn't strike with the others. I later found out that some of those stewards crossed the picket line 10 yrs earlier. F%#@G hypocrates.
Complaining all day about management. How management screws everything and they do all the work . All this while they're sitting around.
Who are you to say that I or other owners don't or wouldn't take care of our employees?
Should my employees make as much as me? Do they assume my risks? I almost lost my home in one job last year. Would my employees have bailed me out? Would you have helped me out, Brother?
We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me.
This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future. Too many fat, lazy turds sitting around complaining while making $80k/year with no licence or degree.
Again, I've got no problem with them, until they get in my way from earning an honest living with a good days work.
Flame on.
Will
Why only wonder about the paid Union Reps?? How about the management side, too?
But basically, one SHOULD get paid when one works. Having sat on Union/Management committees, I can tell you finding the common ground is not as easy as outsiders would think it should be.
When someone badmouths Unions, I often want to ask if they, or spouse, family, children or their parents enjoy, or enjoyed, employment that provides:
-Safe and sanitary working conditions
-Heat in Winter and cooling in Summer
-honest accounting of hours worked and wages earned
-forty hour workweeks
-vacations - paid or not
-sick leave
-holiday pay
-retirement benefits
-health care benefits
-dental benefits
-employee discounts
NONE of the above would be willingly given by most, if not all, employers.
The only reason any of us, union members or not, now enjoy these benefits of employment is because your grandparents fought to organize unions, or went on strike, and in some cases gave their lives to better their family's lives.
Over the years, the benefits earned by Unions have moved into non-union jobs, but most non-union workers never seem to realize this is why THEY have the benefits they take for granted.
When all the Unions are busted, and all the worker-protecting laws are abolished or ignored - something many Free Capitalism Supporters are wishing for - how long do you think the benefits American workers take for granted will continue to be provided by their 'compassionate" employers?
Look around you - it is happening NOW.
And you may be next....
Larry, we're all friends here but I've got to throw in my 2 cents..
I have no problem with unions, until they affect my life. Re: road blocks, work to rule, strikes in public services.
I have a few questions. Answer them honestly.
Do you or anyone in your family shop at Walmart and perhaps buy non-union made items?
Have you ever done a side job?
Have you ever worked while on strike?
If it's OK to block my roads during a strike, then would you be OK with your neighbour pulling your hydro meter when he has a problem with his boss?
I'm a non-union tradesman and a former union steelworker. I lasted a year in the union. Ron's right. 85% of the guys just wanted to work and there were a handful of troublemakers. They were the union stewards. They bred hate and laziness. They threatened young guys that they would be physically hurt if they didn't strike with the others. I later found out that some of those stewards crossed the picket line 10 yrs earlier. F%#@G hypocrates.
Complaining all day about management. How management screws everything and they do all the work . All this while they're sitting around.
Who are you to say that I or other owners don't or wouldn't take care of our employees?
Should my employees make as much as me? Do they assume my risks? I almost lost my home in one job last year. Would my employees have bailed me out? Would you have helped me out, Brother?
We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me.
This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future. Too many fat, lazy turds sitting around complaining while making $80k/year with no licence or degree.
Again, I've got no problem with them, until they get in my way from earning an honest living with a good days work.
Flame on.
Will
quote:Should my employees make as much as me?
Should you make 5000 times more than your employee?? Especialy if you yourself are an employee. That is the enormity of what is happening. CEOs, who are not the owners, BTW, are raping bvoth the employees and the owners of American companies. How can any single employee be worth that? How can they on their own accord earn that for a company? This isn't about owners vs those who create wealth for them. It is about a aristocratic system that is more reminisient of feudalism than it is capatalism. Born into the aristocracy? That is what is going on and it is evil. Karl Marx predicted that if communism lost world domination to capatalism, that capatalism would indeed revert to feudalism. He was right. The people running this country now are not neo-conservatives, they are neo-feudalists and are taking us back to the middle ages. Well screw that. I would rather live in a socialists society, than be ground under the oppresive thumb of the lords of the land.
I agree with you.
How much should owners make? Ask 100 people, you'll get 100 different answers.
How much should a union electrician make? As much as they can get.
How much should union execs get paid? I could go on.....
I have an idea. Why don't we make it so everyone gets paid the same, no matter what there qualifications?
Will
Will
How much should owners make? Ask 100 people, you'll get 100 different answers.
How much should a union electrician make? As much as they can get.
How much should union execs get paid? I could go on.....
I have an idea. Why don't we make it so everyone gets paid the same, no matter what there qualifications?
Will
Will
My two cents...
This is an issue of "competition".
The unions have organized the Big Three. The Big Three have a market share of less than 50%.
The unions therefore control less than 50% of the labor force.
They should organize the imports and this would be a non issue.
How much do you think the owners of Toyota or Honda make?
Just a thought....
This is an issue of "competition".
The unions have organized the Big Three. The Big Three have a market share of less than 50%.
The unions therefore control less than 50% of the labor force.
They should organize the imports and this would be a non issue.
How much do you think the owners of Toyota or Honda make?
Just a thought....
[quote]
"Should my employees make as much as me?" NO WAY !
"Do they assume my risks?" NOT EVEN CLOSE !
"I almost lost my home in one job last year." WIll welcome to the owners club ...me too in 2002 on a Job for the goverment at WEST POINT
"Would my employees have bailed me out?" NOW WAY ..THE UNION GUYS I THOUGHT WERE MY FRIENDS STILL DONT TALK TO ME !
"Would you have helped me out, Brother?" I DID , I DO EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK ..PUT A GUY TO WORK WHO IS LOSING BENEFITS !
"We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me." WILL I HAVE BEEN SCEWED BY THE BEST .. NO SHOWS, THEIFS, AND SLANDERED ... BUT I MADE IT THRU AND REALIZED ..DO AS THE REST DO UNION OR NON UNION ..WATCH OUT FOR #1.
"This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future. Too many fat, lazy turds sitting around complaining while making $80k/year with no licence or degree." WILL I AGREE BUT THATS UNION AND NON UNION ... I SPENT 11 YEARS OF NIGHT SCHOOL IN NYC AND I LAUGH AT SOME GUYS UNION AND NON UNION WHO CAN SWEAT A PIPE.
So dont sweat it all the unions do is prtect the workers from big business. If it were up to big business ..they wouldnt provide an honest living to a worker.
There are a lot of good projects and products made union ... but people see one union construction worker on the highway sitting having coffee at coffee time and they get all labelled LAZY.
I am a Union Contractor and support Unions because I can get 8 out of 10 workers who produce at any time, any day of the week in an hours notice .. when 10 show up and 2 dead beats show up I send the 2 home before they even pick up a tool.
God Bless America Thanks God we have the right to choose.
Ron
"Should my employees make as much as me?" NO WAY !
"Do they assume my risks?" NOT EVEN CLOSE !
"I almost lost my home in one job last year." WIll welcome to the owners club ...me too in 2002 on a Job for the goverment at WEST POINT
"Would my employees have bailed me out?" NOW WAY ..THE UNION GUYS I THOUGHT WERE MY FRIENDS STILL DONT TALK TO ME !
"Would you have helped me out, Brother?" I DID , I DO EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK ..PUT A GUY TO WORK WHO IS LOSING BENEFITS !
"We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me." WILL I HAVE BEEN SCEWED BY THE BEST .. NO SHOWS, THEIFS, AND SLANDERED ... BUT I MADE IT THRU AND REALIZED ..DO AS THE REST DO UNION OR NON UNION ..WATCH OUT FOR #1.
"This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future. Too many fat, lazy turds sitting around complaining while making $80k/year with no licence or degree." WILL I AGREE BUT THATS UNION AND NON UNION ... I SPENT 11 YEARS OF NIGHT SCHOOL IN NYC AND I LAUGH AT SOME GUYS UNION AND NON UNION WHO CAN SWEAT A PIPE.
So dont sweat it all the unions do is prtect the workers from big business. If it were up to big business ..they wouldnt provide an honest living to a worker.
There are a lot of good projects and products made union ... but people see one union construction worker on the highway sitting having coffee at coffee time and they get all labelled LAZY.
I am a Union Contractor and support Unions because I can get 8 out of 10 workers who produce at any time, any day of the week in an hours notice .. when 10 show up and 2 dead beats show up I send the 2 home before they even pick up a tool.
God Bless America Thanks God we have the right to choose.
Ron
In my experience (I have worked union and non union, and the only retirement that I have, from somewhere other than what I put away, is from the union), I have found that there are good workers uinion and non union. There are also lazy and worthless workers union and non union. The truth is that a few people always give the rest a bad name whether union or non union. There are good CEO's that are worth the money they get and there are those that give the rest a bad name. I am sure that there are thousands and thousands of CEO's that wish that they made what the few hundred over paid CEO's make in huge salaries and bonus checks. The fact is that most of us fit more in the average scope of life and get put into categories that might have a bad reputation because of a few at either end of the spectrum.
[quote]I have a few questions. Answer them honestly.
Surely. And we are friends, right?
Do you or anyone in your family shop at Walmart and perhaps buy non-union made items?
.....No, we do not shop at Walmart. Yes, we sadly buy non-union goods. In this day and age, it is totally impossible to do otherwise. However, the largest retail purchases I (and most Americans) make is my automobiles. I have bought three cars, all new, since my marriage in 1982. I never walked onto an import dealer's lot. I bought an '87 Safari, '95 F-150 and '01 Astro.
Have you ever done a side job?
.....No. Other than small home projects for family and neighbors. Total money made in 25 years? Probably less than $200.
Have you ever worked while on strike?
....No. And if faced with that situation, I would not cross a line, nor work in the trade.
If it's OK to block my roads during a strike, then would you be OK with your neighbour pulling your hydro meter when he has a problem with his boss?
.....It is NOT okay to block a road. It IS okay to go on strike when your contract allows for that, or if your contract has expired.
I'm a non-union tradesman and a former union steelworker. I lasted a year in the union.
.....I feel if someone can say they were a "former" union member, and have since gone back to the non-organized side of the labor force, then they probably belong there.
Ron's right. 85% of the guys just wanted to work and there were a handful of troublemakers. They were the union stewards.
.....I'm sure some were. And there are bad cops, lousy doctors and perverted Priests. Your point?
Who are you to say that I or other owners don't or wouldn't take care of our employees?
.....Me? I'm someone who has read the history of business in this country, and who now reads the newspapers.
Should my employees make as much as me?
.....No.
Do they assume my risks? I almost lost my home in one job last year.
.....And if your business had failed, they, too, would likely have lost THEIR homes.
Would my employees have bailed me out?
.....I can't speak for your employees. But I have lost count of the projects where I have bailed out my employer due to their failure to order requested (and required) materials, provide proper tools and proper manpower, or follow through on my Requests for Information from architects, engineers and contractors.
Would you have helped me out, Brother?
.....Probably not.
We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me.
.....And yet you ARE still in business.
This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future.
...here's a newsflash, your neighbor to the South is in the same boat.
In closing, have you (and my fellow Americans) ever thought about the name of our country?
The UNITED States of America - that's a UNION, folks.
Larry
Surely. And we are friends, right?
Do you or anyone in your family shop at Walmart and perhaps buy non-union made items?
.....No, we do not shop at Walmart. Yes, we sadly buy non-union goods. In this day and age, it is totally impossible to do otherwise. However, the largest retail purchases I (and most Americans) make is my automobiles. I have bought three cars, all new, since my marriage in 1982. I never walked onto an import dealer's lot. I bought an '87 Safari, '95 F-150 and '01 Astro.
Have you ever done a side job?
.....No. Other than small home projects for family and neighbors. Total money made in 25 years? Probably less than $200.
Have you ever worked while on strike?
....No. And if faced with that situation, I would not cross a line, nor work in the trade.
If it's OK to block my roads during a strike, then would you be OK with your neighbour pulling your hydro meter when he has a problem with his boss?
.....It is NOT okay to block a road. It IS okay to go on strike when your contract allows for that, or if your contract has expired.
I'm a non-union tradesman and a former union steelworker. I lasted a year in the union.
.....I feel if someone can say they were a "former" union member, and have since gone back to the non-organized side of the labor force, then they probably belong there.
Ron's right. 85% of the guys just wanted to work and there were a handful of troublemakers. They were the union stewards.
.....I'm sure some were. And there are bad cops, lousy doctors and perverted Priests. Your point?
Who are you to say that I or other owners don't or wouldn't take care of our employees?
.....Me? I'm someone who has read the history of business in this country, and who now reads the newspapers.
Should my employees make as much as me?
.....No.
Do they assume my risks? I almost lost my home in one job last year.
.....And if your business had failed, they, too, would likely have lost THEIR homes.
Would my employees have bailed me out?
.....I can't speak for your employees. But I have lost count of the projects where I have bailed out my employer due to their failure to order requested (and required) materials, provide proper tools and proper manpower, or follow through on my Requests for Information from architects, engineers and contractors.
Would you have helped me out, Brother?
.....Probably not.
We don't have enough space here for me to tell you how many employees have screwed me.
.....And yet you ARE still in business.
This country (Canada) is headed for big trouble in the future.
...here's a newsflash, your neighbor to the South is in the same boat.
In closing, have you (and my fellow Americans) ever thought about the name of our country?
The UNITED States of America - that's a UNION, folks.
Larry
quote:Originally posted by Rapid:
In my experience (I have worked union and non union, and the only retirement that I have, from somewhere other than what I put away, is from the union), I have found that there are good workers uinion and non union. There are also lazy and worthless workers union and non union. The truth is that a few people always give the rest a bad name whether union or non union. There are good CEO's that are worth the money they get and there are those that give the rest a bad name. I am sure that there are thousands and thousands of CEO's that wish that they made what the few hundred over paid CEO's make in huge salaries and bonus checks. The fact is that most of us fit more in the average scope of life and get put into categories that might have a bad reputation because of a few at either end of the spectrum.
All good points and I agree. As a small business owner myself working as a non union electrical contractor I owe a lot to the union for the high wages that me and my small crew (under 10) earn. However the 750,000 members of ibew provide orginizers with enough money to run me right out of business if they were to target me. So I won't say anything bad about the union. In my world the union sub contractors will take my sub work and money I offer them if they are low bidder. However no union contractor has ever given me work regardless if I'm low or not. Its just business and the union is big business and no differnt than managment of large corporations in the way they operate and treat members if you ask me.
P.S. Jeff I hope all works out for you I'm hoping your back at work soon
Could be the Mods need to moved/rename this thread under a different heading about Union - Non Union. Though this has become a worthwhile debate among intelligent people, it's a fair step off of JeffS post for support during a bit of a personal crisis.
You can berate me in a PM if you prefer; just looking to keep topical relevancy.
You can berate me in a PM if you prefer; just looking to keep topical relevancy.
I'm not a union member, and my employer is a slave driver. I need some representation!
-Justin
-Justin
Again, I don't have a problem with unions...until they block my roads, won't allow me into government buildings or stop me from going to work.
I agree that CEO's should make more, but not millions. Nor should unioun bosses ( read mob).
When I spoke of lazy turds, it was in referrence to all, union and non-union.
And it's the Brothers who are full of excuses when they are caught working or buying non-union items.
Ron's right. When the smoke clears, everyone takes care of #1, from the CEO right down to the union sweeper, Brother.
Teach your kids to be leaders (3% of the population), not followers (or whiners).
The big 3? My full size GM van is falling apart at 90K miles. I've spent $2000 in the last 2 months in repairs. My previous F150 got an internal coolant leak at 50k miles and toasted the motor. Tha's what I mean about competing with China or Japan. Union or non-union, we're not producing quality stuff at a decent price.I'm the first one to buy stuff made in North America, but not if it's overpriced,substandard crap.
Will
I agree that CEO's should make more, but not millions. Nor should unioun bosses ( read mob).
When I spoke of lazy turds, it was in referrence to all, union and non-union.
And it's the Brothers who are full of excuses when they are caught working or buying non-union items.
Ron's right. When the smoke clears, everyone takes care of #1, from the CEO right down to the union sweeper, Brother.
Teach your kids to be leaders (3% of the population), not followers (or whiners).
The big 3? My full size GM van is falling apart at 90K miles. I've spent $2000 in the last 2 months in repairs. My previous F150 got an internal coolant leak at 50k miles and toasted the motor. Tha's what I mean about competing with China or Japan. Union or non-union, we're not producing quality stuff at a decent price.I'm the first one to buy stuff made in North America, but not if it's overpriced,substandard crap.
Will
quote:I have an idea. Why don't we make it so everyone gets paid the same, no matter what there qualifications?
That is the basic premise behind communism. In theory, it was supposed to be a utopia!
Michael
quote:I'm not a union member, and my employer is a slave driver. I need some representation!
Justin dont you work for your dad???
Jeff
THE STRIKE IS OVER!!! Welcome back to work Jeff. You da man!!!
quote:Originally posted by JeffS:
Justin dont you work for your dad???
Yes.
" THE STRIKE IS OVER!!! Welcome back to work Jeff."
I;m sure it all worked out to be fair for all and provide a good living for the 85% of the Hard Working people of the UAW.
Ron
I;m sure it all worked out to be fair for all and provide a good living for the 85% of the Hard Working people of the UAW.
Ron
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
...THE STRIKE IS OVER!!! Welcome back to work Jeff...
Welcome back and congratulations...so you had a couple of days vacation, hope you got to enjoy them and NOT think about work!!
Great News!
Thanks to everyone for keeping us upbeat here.
NOW we get to see what our new contract is.
So its off to work I go, HI HO, HI HO.
And to George. I didnt realize you were such a cruel task master. Maybe I should give Justins phone number to one of the UAW's organizing reps!!!!!
NOW we get to see what our new contract is.
So its off to work I go, HI HO, HI HO.
And to George. I didnt realize you were such a cruel task master. Maybe I should give Justins phone number to one of the UAW's organizing reps!!!!!
We got to have a briefing today on our new contract. Two Tier wages for new employees (start off at $14 an hour) that is about 40% of a present employee, new long term temp worker rules (who will have a union vote),at least my pay is safe for the moment. Many many skilled trades rules have been revamped and none are good for the present workers. One of which is certain workers will have to work on Saturday and Sunday for straight time in order to support the companies Goals?? and they call this the best they could get. Oh and the best part the two top union people are getting ready to retire.
Thanks So Much
Jeff
Thanks So Much
Jeff
They are retiring because they are being forced ot because they are making too much money ...
Ron
Ron
Sounds like a win win, Increased uaw membership and the uaw will get to manage 30 billion dollars of retirement funds for the members
http://futureoftheunion.com/
http://futureoftheunion.com/
The Union won against a company thats on the verge of chapter 11 ??
Ron
Ron