Greetings from a potential new owner

Welcome in! Your in the right place, and doing the right thing. I bought my car sight unseen and wish I knew then what I know now. PI is first class. Dave, Jerry will represent the car correctly. Bill 1362

quote:

Originally posted by FLPANTHER:
Hello all! Ive been lurking here and finally decided to join and ask some questions. I have loved the Pantera since i was a kid and now im in the market to buy one. Since i know the Pantera community is small perhaps you guys could give me some information about a specific car that im looking at buying. PIM has a car they dub "The Black Knight" its under cars for sale 4th one down in the middle. Do you guys know if it has any issues? Thanks in advance!

That car is listed as "sold"?

Someone was looking at the car a while back and while doing so the listing changed as being sold. Is it back on the market?

Yes the current owner is wanting to get out from underneath it from what i understand.

Welcome. I am a new Pantera owner and wouldn't have my car if it weren't for the help I received from so many folks in the community.

My advice is to be patient. Look at as many cars as you can. Read the forums and talk to people that know the cars.

You didn't say what you want in your first car. Do you want a sorted car or a project?

I inquired about the car in question and fortunately was given an honest assessment from the seller at PI. I decided to keep looking and am glad I did. Based on what was reported that car needed work and was priced high for the market. IIRC the car is fairly well documented at PROVAMO with photos prior to PI putting new paint and wheels on it.

There are some great cars available at reasonable prices. Be patient and find the right car... you'll be glad you did.

Thanks for the responses! I registered at Provamo but am unable to look at pics bc Im not sharing? I know the "Black Knight" is going through Bare metal paint restoration. I think that is the same as media blasting? I drove up and looked at the car but was unable to drive it bc it was in the paint shop. What "other" issues does the car have? I want to add gt4 flares and a few cosmetic changes but im not planning on racing or anything. I feel when I asked questions about the car I was not getting the whole story

I don't recall the details and I've deleted the email. You might try contacting PI and asking them to copy the info they were sending out in response to inquiries when they were selling the car.

You definitely want the full story when buying a Pantera.

Any idea of why the new owner is trying to get out "from underneath" a car he is paying to repaint?

PROVAMO has some photos of the car from before it was painted black. Those photos might shed some light on the car's history. You have to register an original car to gain photo access at PROVAMO. Admittedly it was a PITA when I was first trying to gain access but once I broadened my search it wasn't too difficult to find un-registered cars and it was worth the trouble once I finally had full access to the database.

I cannot tell you how happy I am to be a Pantera owner. I went to some trouble to find the RIGHT car and I believe that made all the difference in my enjoyment. Good luck and keep us posted.

quote:

Originally posted by FLPANTHER:
Yes the current owner is wanting to get out from underneath it from what i understand.

That was a quick change of heart. Did he run into tough economic times or did he find something wrong with the car? Definitely something to look into.

I remember that car and discusion.

The problem with any registry that shows before and after photos is it doesn't tell you what happend inbetween. If a car was subject to a high quality restoration then its history is purely that IMO 'history', however, if the car has had a quick cover up then it could be a money pit.

Determining which the case is crucial and IMO any owner worth his salt having spent time, effort and $$ on a restoration would have an album full of photo's to proudly show prosective buyers.

Julian

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5:

The problem with any registry that shows before and after photos is it doesn't tell you what happend inbetween. If a car was subject to a high quality resoiration then it's history is purely that IMO 'history'...

Agreed. At least when it was for sale at PI that car had not yet undergone restoration.

the way PI states it is the seller can not pay the bill on the car and just wants to walk away. That scares me for someone to dump money into it shortly after buying it and then walk away. Maybe it is true the owner fell on economic hard times. Its in bare metal form right now..Does that get rid of all the rust? can there be other places the car rusts that the media blasting cant get to?

There are definitely areas that can (and do) rust that blasting will not get to. The frame rails are notorious at rusting from the inside out as are the "horseshoes" for the rear suspension. If you haven't already take a look at the Pantera Place website for a tutorial on Pantera rust.

I am somewhat surprised that car is going through a bare metal restoration, it certainly didn't appear to need such and IIRC the price was not reflective of it either.

Being able to thoroughly inspect the car while in the bare metal stage is a huge plus IMO. You will know exactly what is under the paint and can negotiate to have anything fixed you don't like. If you get to choose the color too then it just adds to you getting the car you want right off the bat.

Julian

when i looked at the car PIM showed me what to look for when looking at panteras. the only thing i saw rust wise was INSIDE the drivers side door striker, which was removed. Im guessing there is no way to get the rust out from inside rails and door jams correct? Getting the car in bare metal state is like an open canvas for me and is very appealing since i want to add flares and wheels to it..I dont want a show queen. I want a driver car. Should i keep looking or put in a low offer in hopes it gives me some room to make repairs if need be?

The only way I know of to get rid of rust inside the frame rails is to dip it but then you get into the issue of insuring all the caustic is out of every nook and cranny. Since you've seen the car in its bare state and its relatively rust free it wouldn't hurt to try and low ball them. Have you seen the condition of the rest of the parts and pieces?

If you can see rust there is almost certainly more that you CAN'T see. You definitely need to read up on rust and the Pantera.

"Room for repairs" is a potential bottomless pit if you don't have good knowledge of the car's condition.

I've seen some well sorted cars in the 40-45k range.

There are drain crimps in the welded side of the chassis rails, make sure they are not blocked with crud. Similarly the horeshoe inner fender/suspension support should have had drain holes drilled at the lower extremity near the chassis rail. Poke around these areas with a screwdriver to feel out any potential rust issues. If none I'd say go for it...... just remember PIM are not your guy that lost his job and needs a fire sale, offer what you think it is realistically worth to you.

Are you intending purchasing the bare chassis and doing the work yourself or having PIM complete the car to your specs? If the former then be aware steel flares are notoriously bad fittting and need a competent body man to make them fit and look right. If the latter negotiate a 'completed' price so they don't give you a cheap 'get in' price and then run away with your checkbook on the mods/upgrades.

Julian

my plan was to have PIM install the steel gt 4 flares, a few small cosmetic upgrades then paint it the color i want. they are quoting me roughly 5600 for flares+install. they would "trade" in the wheels for ones I want, (im sure the ones i want are more expensive) they said it would need suspension stuff for proper ride height with the new flares(1000). Interior looks good. Who in the LA/OC area can go look at this car for a 2nd opinion. I am willing to pay

You're not that far away. If it were me I would drive up and look at it firsthand.
Forest

I have already seen the car personally but would like a pantera expert or a pantera mechanic(Not PIM) to inspect the car and give me an honest opinion. It is the frame rails that im worried about. The structural integrity of the car has to be the most important aspect. Everything else can be replaced correct?