Group 4 Flares

I believe the vendors do use different suppliers, or in one case of deck lids the same supplier but each vendor has their own mold he uses.

My GP4 fiberglass flares came from Dennis Quella and were a perfect fit well fabricated sturdy pieces.

Julian

I got mine from Dennis too because I heard the quality of his flares was good.
Mine must have been made on a Monday or a Friday. I left a message asking him to call me but have not heard back from him. I tried calling multiple times through the day and only got an answering machine.
I would like to try another set just to see if I got a bad set. If not...I guess I will have to make these work.

By the way...I bought my car in Reno last year. I used to live in Carson city and have seen many nice Panteras in and around Reno.

The guy to really inquire with is Kirk Evans if you want high quality fiberglass or molded items.

I don't think Gp4 flares are currently in his offerings BUT I seem to remember that they were at one time?

Currently I think it is the Byers Bros that have most of the molds and are supplying them on a custom order basis?

I also think that they are copied or molded off of an original car that someone had at one time or another.

I know that Bob Byers works that way and has molds that he lifted off of original cars.

The presumption here on the fit is that somehow they are going to fit perfectly right out of the box.

None of the flares do and anyone who has done them can tell you they are not simple to attach.

Part of the issue is that they were never necessarily intended to be cosmetically perfect. They were for the factory race cars and needed to be fit to the cars.

Just the fact that the factory attached them with pop rivets should tell you something right there about what they thought about the cosmetics of how they looked?

I know a lot of people are saying that they bought flares that fit perfectly right out of the box BUT everyone is interpreting what perfectly means to them.

Consider also that it is highly likely that every Pantera is a little bit different and that the people who originally "hung" and fit all of the original sheet metal on each car were really more artists than assembly line workers and massaged the original sheet metal skins to make them fit presentably?

Thanks for the input Doug. I agree with 90% of everything you said. I have worked with fiberglass for
26 years in the body shop industry. I have had very few times that the fiberglass sub-straight I was working on was as good a advertised. Maybe II just set my expectations too high.
I will find a number for Mr. Byers and see what he has to offer....otherwise I will digdig into my bag of tricks....get itchy and fix what I have.
It's a new day and I am feeling better about the project.

Thanx

Rick

http://www.precisionproformance.com/

He just did a single pod dash for me and it's "off" a little near the windshield gasket.

Nothing you can do with that but live with it BUT it came out of the mold beautifully with no air bubbles and the casting is nice and thick.

It depends on what he lifted the mold from to begin with.

This was lifted from a Euro single pod dash which is fiberglass to begin with. The US cars are molded plastic.

It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to determine why there is a variation in fit in my case.

It could simply be that the fiberglass Euro cars fit the windshield differently than the US cars do?

The flares are the same way. They could have been layed up too thick on the mounting flanges and you just need to grind them down to fit your car?

Gee-ze! I'm getting itchy just thinking about it?

I can't remember anyone who didn't complain about these Gp4 flares to begin with.

I know I had bought a set of GTS flares and there was no way they were going to fit right out of the box. In addition, they were so thick that there was no way to stretch/cheat them as I expected to have to do.

I just determined flares were not what I wanted to do then at that point and sent them back.

I do seem to remember that I was told they were thicker than the originals because the originals were thin enough to crack easily? In fact, the thickness was one of the issues with them because I think the originals were molded in a way to fit like a glove and that's why they were thinner to begin with?

I really do want the flares. I already bought a set of 345/35ZR/15 Pirelli P Zero tires for the back...I have my new
Hood...mirrors....side scoops and a rear spoiler sourced from Kirk Evans. I wish he did make flares because my spoiler is awesome. I met Kirk when I was 18 and starting college....great guy then...great guy now.
I have a front group 5 spoiler on the way from Dennis too. That one I know will need to be modified.
Yip...starting to itch already myself!

Well if you follow this forum, putting flares on these cars is a very "popular" topic.

It's ironic how no one seems to see the installation details of the original Gp4 cars? OK. In all fairness, how many people ever saw an original one in person anyway.

I've seen a few. Wasn't looking at the flares in detail on them at that time. I was looking at the headers and how crappy they were.

I do remember that the flares were largely cracked from the rivets to the edges though. I just attributed that to wear and tear on a race car, and I do remember thinking about the crudeness of those edges of the flares.

I also remember that I couldn't see inside the flares to see how the steel fenders were cut back. The tires on all of them filled the fenders all the way to the lips. They were also lower than street Panteras.

Hey. These were race cars. They didn't have anywhere near the cosmetic details on them that we now expect.

Good points.
My car is a"driver" for sure. I am not going so crazy on this thing that I would be afraid to drive it in fear of a stone chip. I bought my car to enjoy. My car was raced before I bought it so some things are rough...and many things upgraded where it counts for the racing.
I don't plan on racing...just cruising and enjoying.

As Doug said, fender flairs are popular. Thin flexy racing flairs will crack in use and are easily replaced. Thick flairs will break aluminum rivets, or if you try bonding them to the steel fender, they will eventually crack the joint. The monococque is pretty stiff but it does flex. If you're going full-bore here, seam-welding the entire body/chassis in place of the spot-welds will vastly stiffen the whole car. Those who've done this say their subsequent paint jobs then last much longer, since body-flex also cracks paint. Obviously, the flairs will also last longer.
Another choice for fiberglas is Larry Stock's Pantera Parts Connection in N NV. 5 years ago, he bought all the molds and stock from a restoration shop in L.A, and has molds for all parts of Panteras and Mangustas both interior and exterior, including an entire fiberglas GT-5 body and an entire Mangusta body now in his warehouse. Larry doesn't do fiberglas at his place. He contracts with a well-known specialty shop in Reno to make parts with his molds to his specs. That includes using carbon fiber, Kevlar as well as various types of fiberglas. Contact www.panteraparts.com for info.

Thanks.
I will be giving Larry a call on Monday.

I have a few after the fact shots from inside the wheel wells showing how a friend did the trimming and fitting. He also reformed a lip on the trimmed edge to give it a little stiffness. File is too big for the forum, but I could send them to you if you don't mind giving me your address.

Thanks...p.m. Sent.

I think Jack makes a good point though. If you go with fiberglass and trim back the fender lips you are loosing rigidity through the body because the shape of the fender is part of the monoquoc structure of the car.

EVERYTHING in this car contributes to the chassis rigidity.

The race cars had a roll cage built into them so that replaced lost stiffness and added more.

To my way of thinking putting on the Gp4 fiberglass flares, cutting back the fenders goes hand and hand with adding in the roll cage.

Something to think about. You really don't want to reduce the rigidity of the body further by cutting sections out of it.

Welded on steel flares would be the way to go and that presents another completely different set of issues.

There are people that started on that 5 years ago and STILL aren't finished with that yet.

Fitting fiberglass flares to the car isn't easy but by comparison to the steel flares it is child's play.

quote:

Originally posted by larryw:
I have a few after the fact shots from inside the wheel wells showing how a friend did the trimming and fitting. He also reformed a lip on the trimmed edge to give it a little stiffness. File is too big for the forum, but I could send them to you if you don't mind giving me your address.

Here is a link to an image resizer that works great. I use it all the time to resize pictures to post on this forum and others. It will put a "Resize Pictures" option in your right mouse menu. Right click the picture you want to resize, select "Resize Pictures". Select the "Medium" radio button, and verify that the "Resize original pictures" check box IS NOT CHECKED. Then select "OK". To save time you can select multiple pictures at once! Try it, you'll like it!

Image Resizer Utility

Steve

Dennis is sending me another set of flares to check out. Pretty cool in my book.

Not sure how much structural rigidity I will be loosing since I will only be cutting away a small bit of the arch...plus I will be adding another lip to add more structure to the panel. It still leaves me the option...if I am just not that happy with the fiberglass...to put steel flares on the car.

Adding a roll cage is on the list....but not that close to the top. As far as how long it will take me depends on how much I do personally and how much I let my employees do...lol.

Hello
I will need to make a decision soon ..

then which gr4 flares may I consider ?
regards
Philippe

From personal experience I would choose the fiberglass;

A) the steel flares are a terrible fit, I don't know anyone that has not had to do significant work. I initially started with steel and took them back to Larry as it would have been easier to start from scratch and make my own than use the crap he was selling. I hear that Dennis Quella has the best of the steel options.

B) The original factory choice was fiberglass so you can have a more authentic look. That is the way I went in the end. Easy to fit and guarantee opposite sides are equal. I went with Dennis Quella here as he had the best product IMO.

C) Should anything happen later by way of accident given the flares are the widest part of the car the fiberglass is so much easier to repair

D) The factory used fiberglass for all the GT5 cars with cut fenders, IMO there is not much compromise to the overall structure from removing a fender lip. And I would opine that you add that back when bonding or riveting the flares on. The ones I have are very rigid construction.

Just be sure to get your wheels first and test fit everything, as I have seen some cars that look really odd because the owner put the flares on first where he thought and without ensuring they were centered over the wheels and correct height for clearance.

Julian

Thanks Julian,

Yes I was considering fiberglass flares …
Regards
Philippe

The guy I bought my Group 4 from had factory fiberglass group 4 flares, then had a metal fabricator replicate them. Then butt welded to the body, and welded the seam. Taking the extra time and effort with it makes sure it is secure as part of the car, and without bondo you get a nice clean & crisp line where the flare meets the fender. Some just fill that connection with lots of bondo, which eliminates quite a bit of that fine line of flare/fender connection. Some may like that, but I prefer the clean crisp lines. Maybe find a metal guy to make some, if your fiber flares seem to have a nice shape. It is the one part of the car that will stand out if done righ and also stand out if done wrong .


Flares perfectly butt welded by WIKD Cars & Such, on Flickr

your car is an art piece …
mine will see tracks (I hope !)

Hello Gentlemen,
I have no answers from Becky at Pantera performance (gr4 flares), may anybody ring them or tell me how to contact them to check for availability ?
Many thanks
Philippe (In France !)

I just gave her a call. They don't keep the flares in stock. They would have to get a set from their supplier who may or may not have a set made up. Did you call or e-mail Becky? Her number is 303-660-9897. e-mail becky at panteraperformance.com

Dear Husker,
yes an email was sent ..
I'll try again
Philippe

Have you tried Roland i Germany?

Kjeld

Or Larry Stock in Carson City NV? (larrys@panteraparts.com)