How about this one?

not a bad looking car...

Nice car. And for the price (at the time of writing) is quite reasonable!

BAT word their ad's so "uniquely" don't they though?

It's like you're reading a transcript of posh Top Gear show but you don't know if the writer is actually happy to be writing it or not....

It is strangely missing the rear sway bar? And those drop pans? Looks like they are butchered with no care given to attaching the rear chassis rails. Is that normal?

We will at least see $70k.
There is no longer a bargain on the market, the Panteras just cost which is good.

I dont think you should be to concerned about that missing Sway Bar since on the same Photo the whole Exhaust system is also missing. Perhaps some of those photos were taken during the build? On other photos the Exhaust is visible.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
It is strangely missing the rear sway bar? And those drop pans? Looks like they are butchered with no care given to attaching the rear chassis rails. Is that normal?

Both exhaust and sway bar are installed in another picture near the end of the listing.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
It is strangely missing the rear sway bar? And those drop pans? Looks like they are butchered with no care given to attaching the rear chassis rails. Is that normal?

Normal. You scribe the end of the rail against the new pan. Then just weld it together.

I haven't seen what the Brembo coaches look like but I think that they must have just dropped the pan all in one piece.

I think Ron (AC Cobra) said they are dropped 3" as near as he can determine.

You do need to stiffen the pan some though.

I did it with just adding steel "C" channels through the seat bolt holes.

Ah so the pictures must have been taken during the build.

So Doug, if you stiffen the pans some and butt the chassis frame rails it doesn't weaken the structure? Just look dodgy to my untrained eye.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
Ah so the pictures must have been taken during the build.

So Doug, if you stiffen the pans some and butt the chassis frame rails it doesn't weaken the structure? Just look dodgy to my untrained eye.

It really doesn't effect the "structure" itself because you are just cutting a hole in the floor pan in the area of the seats.

Then if you want to do a structural analysis you would have to consider that you removed a flat section and replaced it with a 3" deep section like in a building where you replace a flat piece of plywood with two floor joists on either side.

In that sense you add strength to it.

The front impact reinforcements are still there but you would have to crash a car to see how it effects the change?

The original early cars didn't even have that and the first '71 that were imported into the US were sent to Stroppe in Long Beach, CA to have that added after the fact.

The first 71 Euro market cars never had them.

The US DOT failed the car after seeing the crash test. That's the one where the spare in the front of the car came through the windshield. After that the spare was relocated in the rear luggage tray.

Furthermore if you bend down 3" sections of the original pan to use as mounting flanges for the new pan extension you are further strengthening that area.

You've created "floor joists" there where there were none before.

Do you see all of this under the car on the lift? Yes.

I would not argue against the term "doggy" but aesthetics follows function.

If one doesn't understand what you are looking at then it will raise questions.

A big nose on your face lets you breath in more air but keeps you off of the cover of "Sports Illustrated" swimsuit addition?


Personally having an ugly belly pan is outweighed by the increase in room in the cabin. To me that isn't even a consideration. I don't care what the mice think when they run under the car?


The dropped pans probably would add drag to the chassis air flow test around the bottom of the pan in analysis too? You just will need more horsepower to do 200mph.

I don't think that was ever tested by Ford in the wind tunnel tests? Don't know on that one.

Those tests are where the current cars wind up with belly pans to improve their drag coefficients mostly for a better "fleet fuel average" as required by the EPA.

Maybe a similar comparison of "chassis stiffness" is like adding the Grp4 fender flares where they actually stiffen the car?

Others have been concerned with installing sunroofs as weakening the monocoq chassis too?

Marlin Jack has one in his car for 30 some odd years. The car hasn't cracked and fallen apart as a result yet?

Even punching "lightening holes" in the inner rocker panels of the factory Gp4 cars didn't weaken the car and those are big holes.

It all depends how and where the holes are? It's kind of like a ladder. There are spaces between the rungs. Just don't remove them?

Reported to have sold for $73,000.

So no one with the drop pans installed the way you have has noticed any cracking or twisting more than usual then? I kind of see how the 3" pan would act as a sort of 3D strengthening brace but I guess it would be interesting to see what actually happens in the real world.

So it sold for $73K apparently. Good news for us owners, not so good for future owners.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
So no one with the drop pans installed the way you have has noticed any cracking or twisting more than usual then? I kind of see how the 3" pan would act as a sort of 3D strengthening brace but I guess it would be interesting to see what actually happens in the real world.

So it sold for $73K apparently. Good news for us owners, not so good for future owners.

I have not and I have not heard that criticism from others.

I have not had the cracking through the typical spots on the body either. Not yet anyway.

I think a Pantera needs to be dealt with symptomatically? When it breaks, fix it.

As a matter of fact the zf hasn't even shown issues with people running stroker engines yet.

Years ago Dennis Quella built several cars with 427 big blocks in the car and the zf even seems to hold up with them in the car.

That is interesting because it was Ford who found it undependable in the MkII GT40's and went to a different transaxle in that car.

It is lighter than the Pantera and the car was being run under "Bonzi" all out GT racing at the time by "team drivers" who would just beat the living daylights out of those cars.


As far as the prices go, it is just going to change the nature of the new owners.

For one thing they are going to be too expensive to allow or risk these radical modifications to them like we have been seeing.

If you notice, few are modified to the Gp4 body configurations?

Doug... I would tend to agree with your remarks. As the values go up, purity will be the expectation. I really think the original spec cars will continue to be the ones pulling the biggest money. With..however..exception to radical customs like the ring bothers car. Something like that doesn't fit to the general remarks of non stock. I can foresee more and more cars being purchased and put back to OE config, or at least OE appearing with known issues addressed.

Wannabe, as far as the dropped seat pan(s) reducing chassis stiffness, there are two general ways this is done. The first is to cut the stock pan on three sides (not on the front) then bend the cut piece down in the back so you have a sloping steel pan. Then you fill in the 3 openings with sheet metal. The other way is to buy or make a formed tray, cut the stock pan completely out and weld the new pan in all the way around. Both methods work.

Just ahead of the stock seat pan is a stamped stiffener that runs crosswise to the console. This stiffener is sometimes cut out to allow a longer cut pan. The driver's seat can then adjust forward or back a tiny bit, assuming you mount the seat on the stock rails (many do not).

I will say this- it's very difficult to drive a Pantera competitively when your head is jammed up against the roof and your knees hit the lower dash, both due to mounting Recaros or later factory seats with over-fat seat & back-cushions. Given a choice, I'll take a slight flexing....

There wills Always be "2" very specific enthusiasts/collectors grouping...The "Purists" & the "Modifiers".

Doubt ANYONE with more than a soup can full of brains would agree in "Stock" form the De Tomaso Pantera has limitations...be it handling, horsepower, braking ability, aerodynamics, electrical,cooling, etc,etc.

Would ask for a show of hands who on this forum is STILL utilizing the OEM radiator, OEM carb, OEM exhaust, OEM shocks???!!!

Does a buyer/collector looking for a stock DeTomaso Pantera with date coded Arriva tires, going to DRIVE the car???!!

Yes!!!..."ON & OFF the trailer" at the car shows.

There is a VERY Famous car collector Jim Glickenhaus ...

https://www.google.com/search?...VMwGMKHTJdDQgQsAQIIw

Who DRIVES his multi MILLION $$$ car collection!!!...Jim's quote about car collectors that DON'T drive their cars is this...

"Not driving your car/s is like not having sex with your Super Model girlfriend because you are saving her for her next boyfriend"

Thank you Doug and Boss for answering my questions. I am glad you didn't take it the wrong way. Good to know that I can install drop pans without damaging the integrity of the structure. I have taken my old girl down the quarter with a helmet on and I was wishing for drop pans right there. I just couldn't get my clutch to throttle working right with my body three quarters under the dash!

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
Thank you Doug and Boss for answering my questions. I am glad you didn't take it the wrong way. Good to know that I can install drop pans without damaging the integrity of the structure. I have taken my old girl down the quarter with a helmet on and I was wishing for drop pans right there. I just couldn't get my clutch to throttle working right with my body three quarters under the dash!

The dropped pan on the driver's side is almost required because of this issue. It certainly was included in the cars that were made after the US versions were completed.

Where the crossover is I don't know?

It may simply have happened after the 150 or so cars that were left unfinished when Ford cancelled the program and were left at Vignale, and Detomaso used those chassis up?

Ford owned Vignale at that point and just chose to shut the place down completely.

Detomaso had to find someone else to build the "coaches".



I have found that spacing the pedal plate out helps tremendoulsly also for the knee issue.

The combination of the lowered pans, 2", and spacing the plate out 1-1/2" changes the entire nature of the cabin.


I also reduced the intrusion of the engine bubble to the point that the passenger seat goes all the way back.

You can now use virtually any seats in the car.

Lots of advantages to lowering the pans with few if any disadvantages.



It will likely "look ugly" under the car but I don't think the mice will care? Occasionally I have a minor concern over it but rarely show anyone my bottom.