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perhaps i am dumber than i think, BUT how does closing all these dealerships help chrysler?? i thought that the dealers buy their stock on credit and pay interest to chrysler. i thought that the dealers pay all their own expenses.

so what difference does it make to chrysler if there a lot of smaller neighborhood as opposed to just a few mega-dealers?

i cannot figure this out, can someone enlighten me??

nazgul
quote:
Originally posted by nazgul:
perhaps i am dumber than i think, BUT how does closing all these dealerships help chrysler?? i thought that the dealers buy their stock on credit and pay interest to chrysler. i thought that the dealers pay all their own expenses.

so what difference does it make to chrysler if there a lot of smaller neighborhood as opposed to just a few mega-dealers?

i cannot figure this out, can someone enlighten me??

nazgul


Because the government is now in charge. You think these guys know how to run a business?
Bad decision by the executives at Chrysler. But what's the alternative? The company goes bankrupt and all the dealerships go bust. Government doesn't know how to run a business, but apparently the bosses at Chrysler didn't know either or they wouldn't be in this mess.
This dealer probably has legal recourse in his contract with chrysler which he will use. It's a shame though, at the end of the day only the lawyers will make any money.

Hope his Isuzu sales are good.
The reality of it is there is no Chrysler. They are done. Have been for months just no one wanted to admit defeat. Sucks for sure but that is the candid truth. What did this guy think was going to happen to all his inventory? Did he think that once they got bought, IF they got bought, Chrysler is going to continue to make Vipers, Nitro's,and PT Cruisers?? No manufacturing establishment who buys Chrysler is going to leave it intact. That's bad business. It failed, why would you keep it whole? If the formula fails you change the formula. Common sense and happens every day. Bitter pill but you have to swallow.

But this is one side of the story and some of what he says does not make sense. Sounds like hype. He never states exactly what he bought. The land, the buildings, the rights to sell Chrysler products? What? If he bought the land and buildings then Chrysler has no rights to take those and he ought to be outraged. But that is unlikely. For all we know Chrysler owns everything and he just bought the rights to sell the name and product. I don't think this story is the whole truth. Franchises can be "purchased" many ways-it all depends on how the contracts are written. Seems to me if Chrysler is taking it away-they own it. Otherwise why isn't this guy lawyering up?? What does he think a letter is going to do? This smacks of BS to me.

Also he states Chrysler is going to give it to someone else. So those 50 employees and 70 local business people won't be out of work-who is going to work the new dealership?-just him and his family will be out. Again that sucks and I feel for him but I would like to know the whole truth first before I pass judgement on either side.
Last edited by fahrenheit351
Sad if true. Sad if a hoax.

Do you have car supermarkets in the US? We have them in Belgium since a couple of years. It is one vendor selling a large number of brands under one roof. Eg a VW next to a Renault or something. They seem to be doing very well. It is understanable to many people I know a car is expensive but replacable item with not much affection to it.

Michel
I posted this on the Detomaso Archives. This was a response from one of the members there:

Ever the skeptic, I called 1-800-GOOG-411 and was connected to the dealership. The owner wasn't in, but I spoke to the receptionist, who told me the entire thing is true, and they're all about to lose their jobs.

I felt sorry for her, and asked if there was anything I could do. Ruefully, she said, "buy a car!"
quote:
I felt sorry for her, and asked if there was anything I could do. Ruefully, she said, "buy a car!"

A little late for that.

Now, how many of you have import marque cars sitting in your garages?

How many of you have shown how patriotic you are and put an American flag on your import?

How many of you can come up with "good" reasons why you passed on American cars and bought the import car now in your possession?

Now multiply that by a nation of "Proud Americans" and you'll understand why the Big Three are in the situation they now face.

We all make choices in life. They are not all based on logic and financial concerns. Some are based on faith, courage of conviction, and personal taste.

If we had all vowed to "Buy American" decades ago.....

Larry

2005 Chevy Equinox - bought used
2001 Chevy Astro - bought new
1995 Ford F-150 - bought new
1993 Dodge Spirit - inherited
1972 De Tomaso Pantera
quote:
Originally posted by nazgul:
perhaps i am dumber than i think, BUT how does closing all these dealerships help chrysler?? i thought that the dealers buy their stock on credit and pay interest to chrysler. i thought that the dealers pay all their own expenses.

so what difference does it make to chrysler if there a lot of smaller neighborhood as opposed to just a few mega-dealers?

i cannot figure this out, can someone enlighten me??

nazgul


The way I see it. They are looking for higher profit margins in the future, with less competition from their own dealers.
Last edited by markm
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

Now, how many of you have import marque cars sitting in your garages?

How many of you have shown how patriotic you are and put an American flag on your import?

How many of you can come up with "good" reasons why you passed on American cars and bought the import car now in your possession?

you'll understand why the Big Three are in the situation they now face.

If we had all vowed to "Buy American" decades ago.....

Larry

2005 Chevy Equinox - bought used
2001 Chevy Astro - bought new
1995 Ford F-150 - bought new
1993 Dodge Spirit - inherited
1972 De Tomaso Pantera


2007 BWM 325i Bought new
2006 F250 bought new
2005 Explorer Sport Trac bought used
1968 Mustang (being restored with FoMoCo approved parts)

None of which have an American flag.....

I vote on car styles with my dollars not my patriotism. Build style with reliability and you get my money. Build junk well....That's the best reason.

The Big Two-Ford's not out yet by a long shot.

"Buy American" has nothing to do with it. If you can't run a business profitably you go out of business regardless of how much product you sell. Chrylser was bailed out three times in my life time. How does "buy American" have anything to do with that fact?

This doesn't have to do with Americans not being patriotic this has to do with Chrysler and GM not building cars people want.
quote:

Now, how many of you have import marque cars sitting in your garages?

How many of you can come up with "good" reasons why you passed on American cars and bought the import car now in your possession?


These are meant to be honest answers, not a diss.

Until recently I owned one Italian-ish (Pantera), two German (Porsche 996, VW Jetta) and one Japanese (Toyota Celica GTS) car. I sold the Celica because I want an Acura NSX or Nissan Skyline. So I am raising my hand...I have imports.

A good reason to pass on American cars? Simple, I didn't like them as much. I haven't liked their styling for a long time. I think American design stalled. Even now they are going backwards for their design, rather than forward.

Regarding patriotism and flags: We can't be capitalist AND protectionist. Capitalism made this country great. We just need to get back to making great products that we, and others, want to buy. And we can't refuse to buy products from other countries if we want them to buy from us. I want to buy my favorite cars, electronics and clothing from whomever makes them.

Despite everything I said above, Rever Clothing is made and printed in Los Angeles. The garments are American Apparel. I pay a premium for that, but I don't think anyone cares that they are "made in the USA." It makes me feel a little patriotic to do everything in the US, but I feel even better about it when I send shirts to car lovers in Canada, England, Germany, Czech Republic, Sweden, Netherlands and other countries. Not only do I keep all my production money in the US, but I bring foreign money into the country as well. However, I am making money because people like the product, not because of where it is made.

- Robert
Are we suppose to feel sorry for any of the these greedy corporate fools, they drove it all into the ground. Working stiffs will pay the price and be burdened with higher costs for generations.

Look to University's and how they have been teaching instead of building corporation which includes jobs, to take profits by disassembling a corp and selling it off.

We are screwed! The only reason we were able to fend off invaders in our past was our industrial might, I see no change when this is over, Infact worse.

It looks like well have to get more mile's out of what we have already, I'm sure the dealers were living high on the hog before all this, I know they were in my town, some of there get together's looked like a county Fair.

Screw em! Let them hurt like every one else!

Buy the way I think Honda had the MOST USA made car. All the others have imported a lot of what they have been selling.

25 to 40k for a frickin Truck, get real.

Mark
I have been buying used Chevy Astro Vans and Ford Econolines for my business for many years ... because 3 years after the vehicle was driven out of the dealer ship I can buy it for 2/3's less ... 7k for a 3 year old van 4k for a 3 year old mini van ... thats because the markup is so damn much ... they were raping us for so long that now they pay the price. The Ford plants are within a hour of my home ...why dont we get a discount for a vehicle that dosent have to be shipped across the country. The imports come into the country and sell for less .. how ? their parts and cars are shipped around the world .. I know ..its the cost of the labor .. well you will see now because the Auto Workers are going to own the Companies .. now WE WILL SEE production and Wage negociations IN A WHOLE NEW LIGHT ...I cant wait to see this ... you will hear me laughing from miles around ... THE AWAIKENING is coming.
The UAW has just as much fault in ruining the U.S. auto industry as corporate mismanagement. That distrusting relationship between the workers and the management, where they are continuously in conflict and don't work with each other to improve flaws has been a crutch to their competitiveness. Its great for an overpayed worker, bad for the company as a whole, and bad for new employees without seniority. There is no incentive for a new union worker to be competitive or improve their value in the workplace when their payscale is based on seniority and time on the job.

If foreign automakers can build cars on U.S. soil without a unionized work force and overtake the #1 spot, that should tell you something. Japanese automakers refuse to acknowledge defects in their designs, and that is just straight dishonesty.

My family has tried to be faithful to ford throughout the years. I've owned 1 Pantera, 2 Mustangs, and a Mazda. My mother has owned 1 Mazda, an Expedition, an AMC Pacer (POS), Chevrolet Cavalier, and an Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera. My brother owns a Ranger, and an Explorer.

Before I started working on my own cars, the dealerships took us for a ride with maintenance and repair costs. We had our run-ins with mom and pop shop repair places too. I don't always have the time to work on my cars, neither does my brother. It might be another story if I was retired. So I have ABSOLUTELY no remorse for some dealer who has enjoyed making money hand over fist for generations. It would be one thing if I was getting superior service, but was rarely the case.

Lastly if you are going to say that it doesn't matter that the money we spend goes back oversees to help build foreign economies, and that you are going to buy whatever product you want, the same should be true about how much we care about your business and whether the money stays here or not.
I was always a fan of American cars until the late 90's. I've owned American cars since high school and throughout the past 25 year as a police officer here in Hawaii. We use subsidized personal vehicles for patrol cars here and all with the exception of my last Nissan Pathfinder have been American made. American automakers have been raping consumers and are now paying the price for it. My domestic cars have ALL had loads of problems and I have had problems with warranty work, too many time to count. A parts worker told me that parts are engineered to fail over a predetermined time. He asked me "How many problems did you ever have with a car from the 60's era? They were built to last back then. Now everything is made of plastic, even high use parts which will fail from either age or frequency of use". Door latches break, electric window components fail, etc., we all know the story and replacement parts are expensive. My daily driver is a 2000 Lexus. It has never needed any work outside of normal maintenance. Nothing has EVER broken on this car. It's the best car I've ever owned next to my '66 Plymouth Valient w/slant six! Now that was a dependable car! People are buying to get their moneys worth in these hard economic times, and the truth is that they get their moneys worth buying foreign.
This article was taken from a website I visit.
quote:

If you believe the Motley Fool and other “stock advisors” in the business press, 90% of GM’s losses can be attributed to the UAW which accounts for 10% of a vehicle’s cost.
The math may seem a bit obtuse but the politics is clear as fizz. The UAW’s disproportionate responsibility for the automakers’ unprofitability is based on the same sort of accounting whiz that led GM to claim they lost $39 billion in November 2007 due to “deferred tax credits”.
If it smells like b.s. and it looks like b.s., trust your common sense and skip the taste test.
Thanks to corporate welfare GM accumulated more tax deductions than they could take in a year. So they deferred the tax deductions and booked them as an asset until the asset got so fat it attracted the attention of auditors who asked — “quote unquote”— What the f##k is this?
Wagoner was quick to assure the Fools not to puzzle their pretty heads. The $39 billion wasn’t actually a loss of cash, he said, since it never had a tangible, marketable existence. It was merely an accounting gimmick — a fancy — like paper wings.
The Fools refer to compensation like pension and health care as “welfare”, despite the fact that unlike “deferred tax credits”, the compensation was earned by productive labor. It’s no wonder the Fools are having trouble figuring out what part of GM is losing what, and how much, and why. They ignore the obvious and thumb their noses at analysis. For example:
GM sold 4.4 million vehicles in the US in 1992 and employed 265,000 UAW members.

GM sold 4.5 million vehicles in the US in 2007 and employed 73,000 UAW members.
A company can’t make productivity improvements as astounding as that and lose money on labor. Something else is shaking the timbers. Maybe we should question the competitiveness of salary workers? How do they compare with their Japanese counterparts in compensation and achievement? Or more precisely, who’s controlling the money?
Since GM sold as many vehicles in the US in 2007 as they did in 1992 and employed 192,000 less UAW members, profits should be way up by any accounting standard. Unless of course, profits were siphoned off into investments overseas, dividends, bonuses, or unaccountable black holes of financial rigamarole. (In 2005 GM paid Fiat $2 billion dollars to get out of a “put option” that would have required GM to purchase Fiat.)
GM sold over 9 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, 06, and 07. If GM lost money on sales that enormous, Wagoner wouldn’t have been awarded a $23 million payoff. He would’ve been put up against the wall and shot. What does the Board of Bystanders know that we don’t know?
For starters, GM manufactures vehicles in thirty-five countries. GM has been expanding in emerging markets for twenty years and hasn’t let up on the gas. In September 2008 GM launched construction of a $250 million corporate campus in Shanghai. GM invests about $1 billion per year to expand production in China. In April 2008 GM announced a plan to build a $200 million engine plant in Brazil. GM opened a second plant in India in September 2008, bringing its production capacity there to 225,000 vehicles per year. It also announced plans to double the number of dealerships and service centers throughout India. In November 2008, GM opened a $300 million plant on the outskirts of St. Petersburg that will produce 70,000 cars per year. In March 2009 a venture partly owned by GM through its Korean subsidiary Daewoo, announced a plan to open a new car plant in Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan, to produce 15,000 Chevrolets per year and create 1,200 jobs. Along side this international expansion GM announced the closure of twelve plants in the US in 2007. In 2008 GM added five more to the list of plant closings.
GM is on the march but according to the folks who call $39 billion in “deferred tax credits” an asset, the UAW must get leaner and “welfare” for blue collars workers should be axed so “unearned income” for the leisure class can get jacked up.
The $39 billion asset was a boondoggle, it never existed, not even as an unhatched egg, let alone a chicken. It wasn’t a loss of cash, it was an auditor’s correction of crooked bookkeeping. But it helped steamroll the union and trumpet the demand to dump legacy costs. Labor’s legacy of profit was invested outside North America, but that shouldn’t make the debt uncollectable. Labor deserves to benefit from the investment of its legacy profits. Labor has a legitimate lien on capital.
Soldiers Of Solidarity has been saying this since 2005 when Delphi first filed for bankruptcy. Delphi transferred assets overseas. They insisted that assets outside the jurisdiction of US courts were
profitable, but untouchable. When Delphi proposed to cut wages in half and eliminate retirement benefits, we warned that Delphi was the lead domino, and the wage and legacy cut would ripple through the economy. We warned that the restructuring would spiral down and the impact on the economy would be profound and permanent.
It doesn’t require a degree in economics to figure out that workers making $14 per hour don’t buy new cars. They don’t buy homes and they don’t invest their savings in the stock market. They live paycheck to paycheck. Restricted income leads to boycott by default. The economic blowback won’t end with the Detroit Three.
When GM’s labor costs reach parity with Toyota, Toyota will ratchet wages down again. The automotive industry is too entrenched in our national economy not to have a cascading impact on wages throughout the country. The dominos won’t stop falling at the end of the assembly line. They’ll keep tumbling until every one is down.
If the Detroit Three can’t sell cars to their own workers, it doesn’t matter how cheap they buy labor. The market is going down. It’s the paradox of thrift. When savings isn’t invested at home, in production as opposed to speculation, it reduces demand and inhibits growth.
The double whammy of free trade and de-unionization in the US compounded the thrift paradox. The savings extracted from cheap, non union labor was invested overseas. The companies’ thrift strategy undermined their most loyal customers — employees and communities in the US.
What can workers do? What’s our alternative? Strikes are worse than useless when the company wants to reduce inventory.
We are left with one option: the wallet vote. We aren’t buying your crap anymore.
We won’t buy anything we can’t eat and we’ll be growing our own. We aren’t investing our life savings in banks or stocks or bonds. We are opting out of the system controlled by crooks and liars. In a rational society workers could petition the government to invest in productive enterprises that create jobs, but we don’t have a socialist democracy. We have a government controlled by money changers and pissant politicians.
Unaccounted billions are turned over to private financial institutions. A pittance is dedicated to temporary job creation, and nothing is invested in manufacturing. Stop-loss loans that require collateral damage — layoffs and plant closings — as a condition of remission do not constitute investment. The arsenal of democracy has been outsourced to China, Brazil, and Uzbekistan.
Stuffing pockets at AIG, Bank of America, etcetera.... is not investing, it’s speculation, it’s casino capitalism. It’s a massive transfer of wealth from the working class to a cadre of people who live off unearned income.
Zero dollars have been invested by our government in regenerative, productive, industrial capacity. The paradox of thrift is self defeat. If government funds aren’t used to promote the prowess and ingenuity of manufacturing in the US, we won’t see recovery, we’ll see depression in capital letters.
The US market didn’t dry up naturally, it was raped and murdered. Unlike the Fools, we know the perps aren’t the ones with dirt under their fingernails. The government has not, to date, gone door to door confiscating guns, but the oligarchy is methodically stripping the nation of toolmakers.
We are led to believe a lie when leaders degrade labor in honor of false profits.
Preserve your skills. We’re going to need them.



quote:
Originally posted by 4NFORD:
This is an unbelievable story:

http://www.americanthinker.com..._a_dodge_dealer.html


This story's credibility collapsed in my eyes when I saw that the dealer's signature said "Dodge-Isuzu" dealer.

Isuzu no longer sells cars in the US as of January, 2009.

Carrying $3M worth of Dodge inventory doesn't make financial sense. Spending millions of dollars to remodel a Dodge "only" dealership doesn't make financial sense.

I will agree that Chrysler giving its dealers only until June 9th to get rid of their inventory and parts IS an unusually cruel business decision.

But since the manufacturer has filed bankruptcy, they can pretty much create all the havoc they want to with labor, dealers and suppliers.

At least GM has told it's dealers that they will not renew (a lot) of dealer franchise agreements due to expire in October of 2010.
OK so let me add this bad news to the mix ... a year ago they said the dollar would be worthless ... are you guys buying gold and silver ? They say tangible items would be of only value, cars, houses, coins, bullion ... the paper dollar, pensions and such will be worthless ? I;m no economist but sure is scaring the daylights out of me and the Goverment isnt saying a word ..not to create a mass panic where everyone takes there money out of banks.

We seem to have an Inteligent bunch here ... so whats the take on what the right thing to do really is ?

Ron
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