Is there a lawyer in the house?

I am not a lawyer, but if the car is not totaled, I dont believe that they have an obligation to replace the car. You should consider yourself lucky that they are going to give you depreciation money AND pay for the repairs.

I understand that most insurance companies no longer pay for diminished value even tho it is in fact a real loss from the accident.

There was an article in one of the body shop mags some time ago on DV. As best as I can remember, they looked at $20,000 cars that were 2-3 years old that had been in minor wrecks. DV was around $1500.

Regarding your accident, there is an interesting clause in most policies. You can have them repair it or...replace it. I did this a few years back when they wanted to not pay to make it perfect, fine, then replace it with a car with equivalant miles and condition and I will call it good. They did. because a damaged car is not worth what a virgin car is. I argued and won. Allsate insurance. My father in law years earlier had to do the same thing, Farmers Ins.
Daniel

I've delt with insurance co. a few times before.They are going to do the most economical for them.I have been screwed before trying to be the"nice guy".That neck and back issue,don't take it lightly.Good luck.The insurance companys deal with these things all the time.They are paid to be good at it.

Go to your insurance company. Allstate says they will replace your new car.. not just give you a check for the damage. The only way to deal with the bastards is to take it to court. belive me, If I was on a jury, I would always side against the insurance co. Definalty get a rental, that will make them want to settle. If you don't like what they offer, don't take it. As time goes by the case will go up to another person trying to settle. When they tell you thats all they can do, grab the back of your neck, flinch in pain, and tell them you need a MRI scan. My neighbor ran a stop sign and his wife broke her hip. His insurance did not want to pay the hospital bill because it was his fault, he got a lawyer that got 30% and he paid all the bills and put in a pool too. Keep us informed, and good luck...

quote:

They are paid to be good at it.

"Good" isn't actually how I would describe it when they are trying to repair your car in the cheapest way possible, even at the expense of quality.

What's too bad is that the vast majority of people could care less or don't know good from bad so the insurance companies and body shops get away with it.

My two cents worth.

As I recall, if the car has 40% or more damage of it's market value then it is totaled out.
The insurance company takes the car and gives you a check for the replacement value of the car.
The replacement value is what a replacement like yours can be purchased for somewhere, not what you paid the dealer necessarily, and not necessarily from a dealer. It could be a private seller.
The insurance company will find the cheapest advertisement of a car for sale with a description of a car like yours, somewhere in the US, and use that as the established value.
If you choose to contest their decision, that will be their documentation of value to a third party who is deciding this.
Allstate calls it "actual replacement value".

A person is never obligated to replace damaged goods or services at more then what they can be purchased for now.

Just my 2 cents. I don't like insurance companies either but we need them.
The Pantera is a risky proposition to drive on the street because of the repair cost vs the replacement value.

An agreed value insurance is the only safe way to protect the finances but you need $100,000 worth of agreed value to repair a car that has a retail value of $40,000. It's very disheartening.

In California, the repair cost must approach 60 - 70% of the "fair market value" of your car to be considered a "constructive total loss". In some cases, if the car is very new, the value may be your cost, less a certain amount for the mileage you have placed on the car. It is a matter of fairness and diplomacy in reaching these type of settlements. The insurance company's job is to pay as little as possible and return value to its shareholders, not claimants.

It doesn't sound like your car is anywhere near an actual or constructive total loss. Sadly, when you go to sell or trade in the car, you may have to reveal whether or not it was damaged in a prior collision, especially if there is frame damage. If you make such a revelation, it is certain to diminish the market value of your car and most reputable auto dealers won't touch your car at all if you try to trade it in.

The difference between the fair market value and your post-crash value is what is known as Diminution of Value. This is the loss of a vehicle's market value normally due to accident or incident damage and related repair.

Whether the law allows it or not in your state, it is difficult to collect this type of loss from most insurance carriers. You can expect your own or the adverse insurance carrier to advise you that they have no coverage for this type of claim or they don't recognize it. Most probably, you will require an attorney to try to collect these damages for you. Few attorneys will ever handle a property damage only case. The cost of having an attorney adjust that portion of your claim may not make economic sense. If you are injured, a personal injury attorney would be responsible for your bodily injury claim and the property damage claim.

In California, an insurance company cannot group your injury claim and your property damage claim together to try to coerce you to settle your entire claim. Each facet is separate. If you are having any pain and discomfort, it is in your best interests to see a physician promptly. The longer you wait, the more suspicious a subsequent bodily injury claim will seem. You may have already caused harm to any bodily injury claim by engaging the insurance adjusters on your property damage claim prior to seeking medical care. You can expect that the insurance company will argue that you are retaliating against them for their handling of the property damage claim by feigning or exaggerating your injuries. After all, how injured can you be if you are able to try to argue your own case over the phone, and probably, with great vigor! They generally tape conversations and will certainly play it back in a court room if the case does not settle. Insurance companies are not easily intimidated by a threat of an impending injury claim by you. They get these threats on the hour and they don't take them seriously, indeed, if a bodily injury claim is introduced by you, often the claim is re-assigned to a new claims adjuster for special attention, sometimes even a "fraud unit" if they think your injuries are bogus.

Having been an accident attorney for over 34 years, it has been my experience that a majority of accident victims try to handle their own claims themselves, often to their great detriment, rather than hire an attorney. After they get the run around or totally p_ _s off the adjuster, they come to the attorney and the case is so fouled up by then, that it is hard for the attorney to get the case straightened out.

There are plenty of attorney-bashers out there, even in the Pantera community who have had a bad experience with an attorney that will tell you to handle it yourself or will tell horror stories about an attorney that ripped them off. It has been proven that accident victims who have an attorney generally receive 25% or more than an unrepresented claimant, even after the attorney is paid. Find yourself a good attorney in your community and have your rights explained to you in detail. Most personal injury specialists don't have an initial consultation fee. I predict you will need an attorney in your case so, make your move sooner than later, but, don't plan on buying that new car just yet. Don't let them catch you on video taking burn-outs in your Pantera or pulling out the ZF either. Let us know how this all plays out and don't say anything on-line that you don't want to come back later and bite you.....
Dave Adler, J.D.

Well said Dave .. Pantera 4134 ..take that advise and get an attorney who specialzes in accidents. Make sure everything is documented, phone calls are useless. Let them send it to you in an email or a letter to your attorney.

Oh and make sure the cost with the attorney is clearly outlined. The cost could exceed the claim when your done.

My Pantera was damaged in shipping from Calif to NY .. they settled for a higher price when they got the first letter from my attorney.

Ron

Insurance companies must be taken advantage of to the fullest extent of your ability.

quote:

Originally posted by jeff6559:

What's too bad is that the vast majority of people could care less or don't know good from bad so the insurance companies and body shops get away with it.

My two cents worth.

Jeff,
I know I'm only a lowly body shop owner, but placing me in the same category as your insurance company? Please!

Mark www.mvacinc.com 6808

Ironically, after reading this thread on Wednesday night, I got rear-ended going to work on Thursday morning. We were all stopped at a yield trying to merge onto a busy road. I was about car number 6 in line. During a break in traffic, 4 cars managed to merge, but the lady behind me thought the gap was bigger and assumed we were all going. I felt a little tap and wondered "did I just get hit?" I looked in the side-view and saw her opening her door so I figured "Hmmmm....I must've been hit." Upon closer inspection , the front of her Subaru Imprezza looked like it had gone through a frontal impact crash test. The hood was nicely buckled into a prominent "v" pointing to the heavens and her bumper was now more of a "bump-in-the-road" rather than on her car. I looked at my car, wiped the little smudge of red paint off of my bumper and said "no problem on my end". Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, it is winter here and I haven't driven the Pantera in so long I have forgotten how to use a clutch. She hit my F150.

So....thank God I live in a miserable winter climate where I get to drive my nice cars on only limited special occassions and don't have to worry about rear-end damgage!

I agree 100%. For all the lawyer jokes we enjoy, it is always best to get legal representation right at the beginning of any potential problem. In Canada a lawyer can not work on contingency - where the lawyer provides their services for a percentage of the award. So all legal fees have to be paid for by the client. In my experience it is always worth investing in an expert.

As for insurance claims on a new car in Canada, all the insurers I have dealt with insist on a "replacement" clause in the policy. It increases your insurance costs slightly but allows you to replace your car in the event of an accident - even very minor ones. I don't know if this is the same in the US but where I live most accidented cars less than a year old are automatically replaced.

quote:

Jeff, I know I'm only a lowly body shop owner, but placing me in the same category as your insurance company? Please! Mark

Generalizations always have exceptions. %^))

Jeff
6559

First, let me say I am not in the body shop business and I do not intend to be taking shots at anyone.

My friend does have a shop and I suppose like most do insurance work mainly.

He told me that the insurance companies will pay $35 per hour shop labor. He charges $75 per hour for non insurance work.

When I asked him how he could run the shop at $35 per hour he said that the $35 per hour was really $400 per hour to him.

Now I couldn't cross examine him on this because I do need that explained to me.

It is a four man shop. The two partners just move cars in and out, write estimates, and order parts.

He has one body man and one painter. That's it.

He has enough cash to speculate on houses, boats, motorcycles and world cruises.

I think I'm in the wrong business.

Like I said, no shots intended.

In Ontario we have a "Limited Depreciation Waver" that is available for most auto policies that guarantees that for the first two years, in the event of a total loss, the insurance company will pay out the total price paid for the vehicle (new vehicles only). This adds about $30 per year to my policy and is well worth it when a car drops 30% in value after you leave the dealer.

Probable Happy ending. It appears that I will be able to replace the damaged TSX.

Between the repair proceeds of $5,600 and the diminished value proceeds of $2,400 I can trade the TSX with the original dealer on a new car same price and payment. As an FYI , State Farm will negotiate on the diminished value.

This week has literally been a pain and I begin physical therapy tomorrow. At least I will have the car issue over with.

PS: I am going with red this time instead of white. Maybe, I will be more visible to those not paying close attention to what is in front of them.

I Should have known better,because we all know that RED is the only color, especially on Panteras!

quote:

Originally posted by Pantera#4134:
... I am going with red this time instead of white...because we all know that RED is the only color, especially on Panteras...

I'm happy all is turning out OK for you. Lets hope there's nothing permanently wrong with your back.

Red Panteras?

You didn't think white Panteras where the only ones I picked on did you?

Nice pics Geo.Fire trucks look terrible in white or yellow.

Now that tractor might look better in silver .