Lights

Exact same thing happened to me, but I had to follow a semi-truck for 2 hours across the Arizona desert to make it to the 1st motel, at 80 mph and no headlights, dash lites, etc. It was the rocker switch in my case. Used the spare switch at the bottom of the console 'til I replaced it last week. This Bulletin Bd had lots of Posts which helped me greatly. www.panteraplace.com had wiring schematics I downloaded which also were greatly appreciated. The switch can be cracked open, cleaned and epoxied back together again in some cases. A Jaguar switch is supposed to work, and a Jaguar electrical guy is familiar with this type of wiring 'theory' by Joe Lucas. I got a used light switch from eBay of $30.00, and just put it in, thankfully it worked. Used electrical components and all, but Ed in Florida is an honest guy, thanks Ed. Search 'no lights' for Posts on this subject on this Bulletin Bd. That helped alot. Thanks guys. It's great to be able to share information with Pantera People who really like to help. No other make of vehicle has such great resources with a terrific Pantera Attitude of helpfulness.

After I got the lights working again, I installed Sylvania H6024 halogen headlights (HL), so I felt like I was making forward progress with my Pantera, they were $8.99 each at the local auto parts store. They also got the blue tint ones. They work great. Easy to install: turn on ignition, turn on lights, turn off ignition, HL will stay up. Pry off chrome rings, with care, using small wood fulcrum (handle of small paintbrush), loosen 3 screws on retaining ring, twist 0.25", remove retaining ring, HL will also come out , plug in ne H6024 HL's and you've made fwd progress, updating your cat.

The schematics referred to above have a Part No. for a BMW 5 amp bulb for the speedo and tach, so you can see them at nite. Get them at the BMW dealer, $3.00 for 2, in stock. Careful not to knock off wires under the dash installing them, they work lots better. Just pull right out and plug right in. Gotta pull off A/C hose to do it, some scratches on your hands will heal. More updating of the Pantera in YOUR garage!

Feeling better already.

Will pul the bottom switch tomorrow and try it. I thought of that tonight but was going to use the interior fan motor to test and see if it is in fact the swtich.
Thanks Ron.
happy Motoring !

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Originally posted by ron norman:
Exact same thing happened to me, but I had to follow a semi-truck for 2 hours across the Arizona desert to make it to the 1st motel, at 80 mph and no headlights, dash lites, etc. It was the rocker switch in my case. Used the spare switch at the bottom of the console 'til I replaced it last week. This Bulletin Bd had lots of Posts which helped me greatly. www.panteraplace.com had wiring schematics I downloaded which also were greatly appreciated. The switch can be cracked open, cleaned and epoxied back together again in some cases. A Jaguar switch is supposed to work, and a Jaguar electrical guy is familiar with this type of wiring 'theory' by Joe Lucas. I got a used light switch from eBay of $30.00, and just put it in, thankfully it worked. Used electrical components and all, but Ed in Florida is an honest guy, thanks Ed. Search 'no lights' for Posts on this subject on this Bulletin Bd. That helped alot. Thanks guys. It's great to be able to share information with Pantera People who really like to help. No other make of vehicle has such great resources with a terrific Pantera Attitude of helpfulness.

After I got the lights working again, I installed Sylvania H6024 halogen headlights (HL), so I felt like I was making forward progress with my Pantera, they were $8.99 each at the local auto parts store. They also got the blue tint ones. They work great. Easy to install: turn on ignition, turn on lights, turn off ignition, HL will stay up. Pry off chrome rings, with care, using small wood fulcrum (handle of small paintbrush), loosen 3 screws on retaining ring, twist 0.25", remove retaining ring, HL will also come out , plug in ne H6024 HL's and you've made fwd progress, updating your cat.

The schematics referred to above have a Part No. for a BMW 5 amp bulb for the speedo and tach, so you can see them at nite. Get them at the BMW dealer, $3.00 for 2, in stock. Careful not to knock off wires under the dash installing them, they work lots better. Just pull right out and plug right in. Gotta pull off A/C hose to do it, some scratches on your hands will heal. More updating of the Pantera in YOUR garage!

Feeling better already.

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You may need that interior fan motor for your defroster if you get stuck in a thunderstorm like I did. Bottom switch works fine, gotta figure out the wires, back of switch is different, so label them and reinstallation of your new/repaired switch will go easier.

I had my lights go out 2 years ago after frying the switch as well. Congrats on getting your car on the road - by driving it, you'll find out what really needs to be sorted out, and I'm sure you'll come up with a small list of little problems.

You should know that ALL headlight switches will eventually burn out. This is because all the current for the headlight flows through the switch, unlike modern cars that use the switch to control a relay, and the current flows through this relay. It appears that the switch is not designed to support this type of current flow forever, and they WILL burn out. The testimony of the people on this forum are proof of this...

The good news is that several people have put together a relay kit to solve this problem. The most famous is probably the "Rick Moseley Relay Kit". I installed one in my car after burning out my switch, and it was well-made, and VERY well documented. His kit also offloads current for the fans to minimize current drop, and has extra relays for anything else you could want to protect.

For more information, go to WWW.PanteraPlace.com, the technical section, then look under "Electrical". You'll see two articles - one by Mike Drew, and one by Mike Dailey. They give enough information for you to do this on your own, if you're so inclined.

Headlight switches are getting harder to find and expensive... Protect your switch and it'll last forever!

------------------
Charlie McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness across Europe"
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/gt5s_1985

Thanks Guys. Appreciate the help and insight.

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Originally posted by Charlie McCall:
I had my lights go out 2 years ago after frying the switch as well. Congrats on getting your car on the road - by driving it, you'll find out what really needs to be sorted out, and I'm sure you'll come up with a small list of little problems.

You should know that ALL headlight switches will eventually burn out. This is because all the current for the headlight flows through the switch, unlike modern cars that use the switch to control a relay, and the current flows through this relay. It appears that the switch is not designed to support this type of current flow forever, and they WILL burn out. The testimony of the people on this forum are proof of this...

The good news is that several people have put together a relay kit to solve this problem. The most famous is probably the "Rick Moseley Relay Kit". I installed one in my car after burning out my switch, and it was well-made, and VERY well documented. His kit also offloads current for the fans to minimize current drop, and has extra relays for anything else you could want to protect.

For more information, go to WWW.PanteraPlace.com, the technical section, then look under "Electrical". You'll see two articles - one by Mike Drew, and one by Mike Dailey. They give enough information for you to do this on your own, if you're so inclined.

Headlight switches are getting harder to find and expensive... Protect your switch and it'll last forever!

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Traded out the switch and the lights now come up and down like they should.
However, the heard lights are not lighting up.

Any idea's ?

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Originally posted by Cozman:
I guess it's easy to tell when someone gets their car on the road. All the problems & questions start. :-))

I was driving down the freeway tonight, lights on everything fine.

All of sudden my headlights went down and I had no lights. I pulled off to a gas station to check the fuses.

All the fuses were fine. I have no headlights, tail lights or interior gauge lights. Brake lights still work.

Could this be the rocker switch that turns them on or off shorted out ?

Any idea's ?

Once again, thanks for the help.

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Probably not the fuses, because there are individual fuses for each side of car. They were working before, so it was the switch (since they're going up now). Maybe the different wiring of the switches, my bet. HL & spare switch are differed from the back, I'd try that, so what if a fuse blows? Hope that does it. You have to leave the ignition On to get HL On. Also possibilty it's the relay, but likely the wires on the different contact points. I suggest looking at wiring diagrams to see what color wires are for what purpose, www.panteraplace.com, I'd tell you which go where, but I had to get my mechanic buddy's help. Had to have me tell him whether the lights were on a couple of times. Hope you labeled them so don't have the same problem when putting in another replacement HL switch later, I didn't, so I had to get help again! I'm Learin' the hard way!!

[This message has been edited by ron norman (edited 06-25-2003).]

here's what I did today to try and get a head of the game.
I completely dismantled the fuse box. I cleaned all contacts on the male posts, changed all the female wire ends, cleaned all the fuse contacts and then put everything back together.

To my surprize, everything worked expect the headlights. I took the switch out and it crumbled in my hand. ordered a new one from Jerry at PI.

But I went out and bought a cheap one from Autozone that had 3 contacts. Power, ground and aux. I hooked up the Pantera switch wires to it. The headlights go up and down now but the head lights still do not light up. All the other lights are working, edven the little bulbs in the headlights, (what are those for anyway ?) Tail lights, brake lights, license plate lights.

However, something new started working. Up until now, pulling on the turn signal lever didn't do anything. Now when I pull on it, the brights come on. If I push on it to the point where they should stay on, nothing happens and they should stay on. This could be the lever itself. Still don't have turn signals either.

Or low beam headlights. I am hoping this new switch will take care of the low beam lights. I know they work, I took them out and put a battery to them and both the low beam and high beam work on both of them.

Did I miss something on the rewirng of the fuse box wiring ?

Everything is working but the Low beams and the turn signals.

quote:

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Originally posted by ron norman:
Probably not the fuses, because there are individual fuses for each side of car. They were working before, so it was the switch (since they're going up now). Maybe the different wiring of the switches, my bet. HL & spare switch are differed from the back, I'd try that, so what if a fuse blows? Hope that does it. You have to leave the ignition On to get HL On. Also possibilty it's the relay, but likely the wires on the different contact points. I suggest looking at wiring diagrams to see what color wires are for what purpose, www.panteraplace.com, I'd tell you which go where, but I had to get my mechanic buddy's help. Had to have me tell him whether the lights were on a couple of times. Hope you labeled them so don't have the same problem when putting in another replacement HL switch later, I didn't, so I had to get help again! I'm Learin' the hard way!!

[This message has been edited by ron norman (edited 06-25-2003).]

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[This message has been edited by Cozman (edited 06-25-2003).]

It sounds like maybe one of the wires from the switch is not connected. There is a red wire and a white wire that connect together on theswich. One operates the motor to raise the lights and the other sends power to the headlight fuses via the dimmer switch in the turn signal switch assembly. Check that both wires are connected.

It sounds like you are getting good answers.
I'll only address why your lights (high beam) went on when you pulled the high/low/turn switch.

I'd bet you have a "euro" car.
(OK I KNOW you do !)

On inspection, after a similar headlight failure, Tom Padula learned that his "euro" has the "flash to pass" feature.
You do too !

Congrats !

Chuck

If you need the HL the spare switch WILL work, has 4 posts for the wires. I think the original HL switch has 5, can't remember. But if you just plug the spare in and plug the wires on sort of close to how they came off the HL switch, then you get frog eyes w/o lights. If you got fuses, not a problem to change a couple of wires across. I'm thinking the schematics tell you which are ground and which are parking lites and which are lo and which are hi. I think the match is across the wide side of the switch (horizontal) with the running lights on the middle part of the switch body on the back side. As you see, I don't really know, but I'm pretty sure you can't hurt much plugging them in in different positions, but may have to replace fuses. The schematics may give an educated guess...I guess. My HL switch just melted after driving 1.5 hours at nite. Scary stuff, gonna have to do the upgrade mentioned in an earier post, but don't that much nite driving, just gotta get home at nite occassionally. Want the permanent fix & reliability though.

Let me know how to get the Hi/Lo beam working on the turn signal indicator, if you figure this one out. I know my wiring is OK because just before my headlight failure in AZ, my beams were flashing and on-coming traffic was flashing me back 'slowing down for the 'cop ahead''!

Thinking your wiring is OK too, b/c you said HL were working B4 you had to pull into gas station at nite w/o HL. Think its gotta be the new switch, but easiest to just wait for new switch, IMHO.

Originally my left turn signal blinked really fast and didn't blink at all in the front. Unplugged the wire under the wheel spash guard and plugged it back in, presto, it worked fine after that, a little corrosion on the contacts was all.

Rear lites do work when HL are NOT working, funny wiring theory, but that's what mine also did.

I still don't have hi beam, and don't wanna purchase a turn signal indicator b/c very expensive! One is/was on eBay @ $150 yesterday or the day before! Thinking some dirty contacts somewhere.

It'll be really great if you can post the proper positioning of the wires for BOTH the original HL switch and the way the wires are attached to the 'Spare' switch, b/c this question came up before. It's gonna happen to more of us in the future! If I'd been thinking ahead, I'd have done that for everyone. Suggest you make a New Topic and just present the info for the folks who are gonna be in this delimma and are gonna need to know, I'd have liked to have know in AZ that nite! If you can and do post the info, I definitely will PRINT this info and paste it in the glove box for emergencies!

Thanks, maybe save a life, pretty cool thing, or just get someone home with a tremendous level of appreciation. If you figure it out, that is....

[This message has been edited by ron norman (edited 06-25-2003).]

Here's what I found out. I am hoping it's because the autozone switch i used isn't conducting the right current as the original switch will when I get it.
I pulled the headlights again. I put a voltage meter to the grey wire and the ground wire. I show no current on either side. But yet I show current on the green wire which is the high beams. I went further and connected that little bulb yellow wire to where the grey wire is and then grounded it to the black wire. Low bean lit up and so did the high beams when the signal lever waqs pulled. To me, this means there is no power coming from the grey wire on either side where it should have power. Obviously. I'm hoping it's the switch and not mis wiring in the fuse box.
Not sue what to do at this point but wait for the switch to arrive and see what happens. If it's still not working then I will have to trace the grey wire and see where the problem is. It's either that or just hook the low beans up the the yellow wire that is used for the little bulb and forget about the little bulb. Still don't understand what it's for anyway.
Mind boggling this wiring. Now I know why they call it Lugas's nightmare.
If anyone knows where the grey wires should be located in the fuse box, please let me know.
Also, just so you know. My car is a 1980 GT5, Ser. # 9178. So I am finding that the wiring diagrams out there don't really match to what I have..
Thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by ron norman:
If you need the HL the spare switch WILL work, has 4 posts for the wires. I think the original HL switch has 5, can't remember. But if you just plug the spare in and plug the wires on sort of close to how they came off the HL switch, then you get frog eyes w/o lights. If you got fuses, not a problem to change a couple of wires across. I'm thinking the schematics tell you which are ground and which are parking lites and which are lo and which are hi. I think the match is across the wide side of the switch (horizontal) with the running lights on the middle part of the switch body on the back side. As you see, I don't really know, but I'm pretty sure you can't hurt much plugging them in in different positions, but may have to replace fuses. The schematics may give an educated guess...I guess. My HL switch just melted after driving 1.5 hours at nite. Scary stuff, gonna have to do the upgrade mentioned in an earier post, but don't that much nite driving, just gotta get home at nite occassionally. Want the permanent fix & reliability though.

Let me know how to get the Hi/Lo beam working on the turn signal indicator, if you figure this one out. I know my wiring is OK because just before my headlight failure in AZ, my beams were flashing and on-coming traffic was flashing me back 'slowing down for the 'cop ahead''!

Thinking your wiring is OK too, b/c you said HL were working B4 you had to pull into gas station at nite w/o HL. Think its gotta be the new switch, but easiest to just wait for new switch, IMHO.

Originally my left turn signal blinked really fast and didn't blink at all in the front. Unplugged the wire under the wheel spash guard and plugged it back in, presto, it worked fine after that, a little corrosion on the contacts was all.

Rear lites do work when HL are NOT working, funny wiring theory, but that's what mine also did.

I still don't have hi beam, and don't wanna purchase a turn signal indicator b/c very expensive! One is/was on eBay @ $150 yesterday or the day before! Thinking some dirty contacts somewhere.

It'll be really great if you can post the proper positioning of the wires for BOTH the original HL switch and the way the wires are attached to the 'Spare' switch, b/c this question came up before. It's gonna happen to more of us in the future! If I'd been thinking ahead, I'd have done that for everyone. Suggest you make a New Topic and just present the info for the folks who are gonna be in this delimma and are gonna need to know, I'd have liked to have know in AZ that nite! If you can and do post the info, I definitely will PRINT this info and paste it in the glove box for emergencies!

Thanks, maybe save a life, pretty cool thing, or just get someone home with a tremendous level of appreciation. If you figure it out, that is....

[This message has been edited by ron norman (edited 06-25-2003).]

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[This message has been edited by Cozman (edited 06-25-2003).]

This may sound to obvious but; did you remember that the low/high beam STALK (switch) must be in the relative position to activate the low beam OR high beam wires?? Marlin.

Yes, it's in the center position.

quote:

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Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
This may sound to obvious but; did you remember that the low/high beam STALK (switch) must be in the relative position to activate the low beam OR high beam wires?? Marlin.

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I am speaking of the "turn signal", HORN, High/Low beam- STALK!!; just to the LEFT of your steering wheel! There IS a center position for the turn signals. There is NO center position for the High/Low beams! It is either Towards the driver for LOW beam, or it is away from the driver for High beams. Depending on which position, ONLY those wires will be "LIVE" when you test them. Marlin.

[This message has been edited by MARLIN JACK (edited 06-27-2003).]

Ah, Marlin, You are missing something.
Read my comment above. Coz has a 'Euro' car.
Their turn stalk is different than a standard USA model ('71-'72 Capri).
The Euro stalk has a forward, middle, and back (springed not to stay) position.

While driving with the lights off, one can pull the stalk, and the lights raise, and illuminate the lights (highbeam I think).
Let go and they drop. With low lights on, and the highbeams come on (on as long as you pull the stalk balk).

Admittedly, the speed that the light buckets rise tend to make this a slow-to-respond feature, but ...

If I had one of these stalks (Anyone have one they want to sell me ? I have a spare USA stalk to trade !) I'd wire the "flash" feature to driving lights.

Chuck

You are correct Chuck.
The center position when the lights are on should light up the low beams. Pulling it turns on the hi beams until you let it go. Pushing it forward lights the high beams and keeps them on until you pull it back to the center position.

When my lights are on, the low beams are still not lighting up with it in the center position, but when I pull on it, my high beams now light up.

Problem being, I have no power to either Grey wire going to the connector that controls the low beams in the headlight bucket. High beam wire, Green, is ok

Can anyone tell me what fuse # their Grey wires for the low beams go to ?

Yes, it is a Euro car. # 09178


[This message has been edited by Cozman (edited 06-27-2003).]

Gentlemen, I stand corrected!! I will be more careful with my advice in the future. Regards, Marlin.

Not your fault Marlin. I should have made it clear from the beginning that I had a Euro car.
My bad.

When you have your new switch installed, if you're still having the same problem, and you can't get it fixed, give me a ring. You have my number. I'll just set you up with the right guy to get the job done in a little under an hour. Put the new switch in first, then call. You'll have to drive a little ways, but I'll buy you Mexican Plate you'll want to come back here for. No sweat! IT WILL GET FIXED, NO WORRIES COZ,

Ron

Excellent thread guys! Keep it up!

Congratulations, Coz. So, you didn't have to come out here and try out the world's best Mexican food after all. I'd still like to see that GT-5 someday. Glad we could just talk and figure it out over the phone.

It was the wiring on the HL switch, the red & white wires piggyback onto the same terminal on the back of the HL switch.

He called after the new switch was installed, I pulled my switch, told him how my wires were connected, presto!

On to the next project for both of us or all of us! Pantera Fanatics. Bet Ferrari Guys don't consult each other or know nearly as much about THEIR cars.

Everything is now working from what I can tell. (Been a hell of a week with this)

Here's how I hooked everything up.

Orange Wire to #1 on Light Rocker Switch
Pink Wire to #4 on the Rocket Switch
Both Red & Blue/White Wire to #8 on Rocker Switch.

Rocker Switch in the Off Position: Everything off.

Rocker Switch in the Middle Position: All Interior Gauge & Parking Lights on.

Rocker Switch in the On Position: All Interior, Parking, Headlight Buckets Come Up & Headlights on.

Turn Signal Lever: Forward Position (Towards Dash): Low Beams On

Turn Signal Level: Rear Position (Towards Driver): High Beams On

With Light Switch Rocker in the Off Position: Pulling on Turn Signal Lever: Headlight Buckets Come Up with Lights On and then go back down when lever is released.

With Light Rocker Switch in the Middle Position: Pulling on Turn Lever: Headlight Buckets Come Up with Lights On and then go back down when lever is released.

With Light Rocker Switch in the On Position: Pulling on Turn Signal Lever does nothing. (And that's Ok with me)

I also thoroughly cleaned the wiring harness plug from the Ignition & Turn Signal Switch that attach to the plug inside of the dash area.

Remember now, this is a Euro car. # 09178.

Now to figure out why my turn signals are not working. ????????????????????????

Thank you for ALL the help. You ALL helped me a great deal in understanding what I was looking at which got to me where it is now.

And THAT is absolutely appreciated ! Thank YOU ALL again for all the calls back & forth and the patience.

Chuck, Ron and Gary, you guys are great and make make owning a Pantera worth the effort if for nothing else, just the brotherhood we share !

And Dave & Jerry at PI Motorsports, thanks for getting me the switch so quick after the mix up in shipping, you guys are great to deal with ! Absolutley the best customer service around !

Coz