newbie introduction

one more

last one....

btw: I am looking for a good carb combination for my 1973 stock engine. in the moment I have a edelbrock 600 performer mounted and I have a 650 thunder on the shelf. the car has an electronic accel distributor and an edelbrock performer intake manifold. any experiences with this combination? or shall I post this in the engine forum?

wolfgang

Welcome Wolfgang, and congratulations on finding a great looking Pantera. You've managed to find a nice combination of early bumpers (small, Euro-style) and later (nicer, IMHO) interior. It looks like all you need to do is remove the factory spring spacers so the ride height will lower and look better. The car looks to be in very nice condition.

As for the carb, I have a Holley 650 on my stock engine with the Edelbrock Performer intake. It seems to work well as a combination, but I'm sure there are many others that do also. I have a Ford Duraspark 2 ignition system on one of my Panteras and an MSD 8350 all-in-one distributor in the other. Both work beautifully. If your Accel system is working, I'd ignore it until it doesn't (if ever).


You'll always find things that you want (but don't really NEED) to do on the Pantera, and occasionally, the odd project that you NEED (but don't want) to do. It's all part of the fun.

Mark

GREAT looking car Wolfgang, love the color. Agree with Mark on removing the spring spacer if you can. Will do a lot for not much trouble.

Enjoy that car!

Congratulations. Great color, nice car, and your thought process on arriving at the decision to get the Pantera is very similar to the those of many of us. Have fun!

Welcome, great looking car and the right color. Ps if my grandchild had been a boy it could have been named Wolfgang


#1154

very nice car , congrats ! here the same reason, looks,sound,torque, rare ....and somewhere the piece of mind that besides , ok, a expensive ZF , there is no 12.000 revs complex fragile million $ engine on board...

CONGRATULATIONS Wolfgang! Beautiful car! You'll find this forum to be full of lots of helpful knowledgeable folks.

As for your technical questions...
Intake/carb - The Edelbrock Performer intake seems to be the preferred intake for a stock 351C (and many mildly modified 351C's). The 4V intake has smaller ports than the stock intake which increases air/fuel velocity at lower RPM and improves throttle response. Based on typical automotive math, a 600cfm carb should be sufficient for a 351. However, many have reported that the engine really responds well to larger carburetors - 750cfm seems to be a popular size. I ran a Holley 670 Avenger on my stock engine.

Ignition - As others have already said, leave your Accel electronic ignition alone, unless it breaks. But it should provide years of trouble-free service. Just check your plug gaps - with an electronic ignition you can/should open that gap to about .040-.045" (1.01-1.14mm). Also, DO NOT use platinum plugs! The Pantera community has found they perform very poorly in our cars and foul quickly. They really require the precise air/fuel mixtures achieved with the computer controlled fuel injection systems of newer cars.

A known weakness of the stock engine is the original valves. They are two-piece valves that are friction welded together, and they've been known to come apart with catastrophic results. If you do any major service to your car, pull the heads and replace the valves with quality new one-piece valves. My engine went to 105,000 miles before I spun a rod bearing, and I didn't baby it. But, I've seen pictures of others with much lower mileage who experienced this catastrophic failure. Just something to keep in mind.

Here's a link to my "Best Fixes for under $20" page:
http://www.banzairunnerpantera...chinfo_bestfixes.htm

Other than that, just enjoy it!

Beautiful car Wolfgang. Congratulations!!

Hi all,

thank you very much for your comments.

Mark and A Hudson, removing the spacers will be one of my jobs for the winter which will remove my car from the salty roads over here for three or four months.... My hometown is around 100kms from the bavarian alps and snow can be a big issue in winter over here.

Mark and Garth, I try to find a good carb solution for the car. Many people tell me that fuel economy should not matter too much when driving a pantera but I also would like to check out how to lower the consumption. In the moment fuel costs 1,75 euros per liter (2,26 USD for 0,265 gallons) over here... my car consumes around 13 mpg in the moment. any chance to lower this?

Thks again, Wolfgang

Wolfgang, with my Holley 650 carb I am getting about 18-20 MPG (imperial gallons) average in my stock (not driven hard) Pantera. In my other Pantera, I have a Holley 780 Quickfuel and although it runs like a monster (the engine is not stock and it IS driven a bit harder), the fuel economy makes me cry it is so bad. We pay only the equivalent of 1.25 Euro per litre, but I still sympathize with you. You should be able to improve on 13 MPG in a properly tuned engine with a well-adjusted carb.

Mark

Mark,
so trying to bring down consumption is my next topic then. I did not check the ignition yet so that would be my next step.
I`ll report!
Wolfgang

quote:

my car consumes around 13 mpg in the moment. any chance to lower this?

To increase your fuel economy, you should...
1) Have your car tuned on a dyno so the carb can be properly jetted and dialed in, and timing properly set
2) Check your tire pressures
3) Drive conservatively - but where's the fun in that!

My stock 351C (with Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 670 carb, headers, and Mallory unilite electronic ignition) averaged 13 MPG and delivered 16-17 MPG on the highway if I took a road trip. I'm anxious to see how my new engine does.

Garth,
you are absolutely right. Fuel saving is not what I am have in mind primarily when enjoying my pantera. It´s just that I would like to adjust everything properly in order to bring the fuel consumption to a reasonable level. Thks for your recommendations!
Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,

nice, clean car you have found.

It look's fantastic

thank you alfa4fun.
and thks to the fantastic enthusiasts who have helped so much to find the car. I have bought 5891 without having seen it in reality..... So it was a matter of trust and I am more than happy with this decision!
wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang. Solid handle. I love german names.
With my car, a 393 stroker, I get between "who the fack cares" and " I don't give a shit" mileage.
There are 2 positions your pedal should be in. Idle and firewall.
Straighten out and stop asking such silly questions.
If you're from quebec, you would be on idle most of the time. If you're from from Ontario, you would be wot.Germany? Not sure. Ottawa? They're not sure where to be.
If you want fuel economy, buy a Jetta.

Will

Hi Wolfgang
Welcome to the forum. Most of us don't worry too much about fuel milage as we only drive our Panteras on sunny weekend drives back and forth to car shows and such.

Hey Wolfie! Welcome to the board with that nice cat!

Any "reasonable level" of fuel consumption means less fuel than you can get which in turn means less power you can make.

As you can see, there are not too many reasonable people here.

Once you go out in your new cat and run down those Ferraris and Lambos you will also toss reason out the window. Yes, the one that goes up and down quite slowly. But that's a slow we can live with.

Mark, I love the new avatar!

Will, as usual the humor is top notch. But I don't get the "If you're from Quebec, you would be on idle most of the time." What do you mean exactly?

a) We love to save money on fuel?
b) We spend a lot of time sitting at red lights?
c) We're all practicing to move to Ontario since the PQ got elected?

Hi Wolfgang,

Great to see you here with that beautiful car!

Many people just bolt a big carb on the Pantera for performance, but that doesn't sound to be your problem as a 600 or 650 carb should work well on a relatively stock engine. Are the exhaust tips black (soot) inside? How long are your drives and how quickly does the car come up to operating temperature?

Re-jetting the carb and resetting ignition timing might be warranted, especially as Euro fuel is typically better octane rating than US. Are you in the mountains or low lying lands? That will also affect jetting requirements. I'd get it on a dyno and tune it, the savings should soon pay for the cost of the dyno.

You can also open up spark plug gaps on an electronic ignition to greater than a stock system.

Best regards,
Julian

uhhhhh , I did not want to make the fuel consumption to the main thing in this thread. I am well aware that I did not buy a Prius.... I do not do a lot of miles in 5891 so fuel consumption is just a part of the current process to tune the engine. In the moment I have the 600 performer mounted (out of the box spec; I only have adjusted the accelerator pump to give maximum fuel). plug gaps are adjusted to electronic ignition already. plugs are light brown. engine stumbles when accelerating so most likely still not enough fuel. next step: check out ignition settings. then maybe mounting the 650 to have a comparison. I'll report. Any additional ideas or experiences?
Thks all for supporting me here....
Wolfgang
(btw: I am living in Bavaria in a town called augsburg. augsburg is in 60 kms distance from the oktoberfest town munich and in around 100kms distance from the alps which - more or less - are the borderline between germany, austria and switzerland. if interested check out: http://www.augsburg-tourismus.de/home-english.html

HAHAHAHA!
Just messing with you Wolf! Just trying to get things going.
This frickin board has been quiet lately. Nothing going on. There's more excitement watching americas got talent.
Want better mileage? Go efi. Night and day.
When you get things sorted out, post some burnout video's to wake this board up!
HA Dave! I read a story yesterday about Ontario real estate agents being inundated with calls from Quebecers wanting to move because of the Bloc. 1970's all over again?
Will

Will,
great, I`ll warm up the engine for you!
Wolfgang