No way!!

DeTom my friend, there were only about 7200 Panteras manufactured, including the Si model.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7650045562/m/2990043404

Your friend on the DTBB

I'll bet half of the ones built have been destroied or parted out. Ok maybe a litte less than half.LOOK around!...Do you see what most people do to a car? I work in the car repair business and I am amazed everyday at what people do or fail to do for their cars.

Well, Ok, I grant you that. 7000 cars. But still a Pantera is not now or has it ever been a throw away car. I mean if it breaks you fix it and if you can't fix it it sits until someone can. Don't you agree that pretty much every Pantera built is still with us to this day?? I can't imagine over half of them turning up missing.

quote:

Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
I'll bet half of the ones built have been destroied or parted out. Ok maybe a litte less than half.LOOK around!...Do you see what most people do to a car? I work in the car repair business and I am amazed everyday at what people do or fail to do for their cars.

But, but but, LPB, Panteras is differant. I mean you just plain don't treat them the same way you do a Crown Vic or something. I mean like pretty much every Corvette ever built is still around. I bet there are less than 30 Dodge Vipers that have died officialy. Like old Jaguars XKEs. Terrible junky cars but no matter what people make them just keep on going.

I know a fellow PCNC member who once saw three Panteras, stacked like cord wood in a Bay area wrecking yard. I've seen one burned out shell that was destined to be a parts donor for the vendor who bought it. Crayon47 has been fully parting out a Pantera on eBay for about a year now. I've seen web photos of several cars so far eaten by rust that I doubt anyone but one in a million could/would restore it.

Hard to stomach, but sadly our dear cars are not all 'around' somewhere. Many have already passed on to that great garage in the sky.

Treasure and cherish yours for the next soul lucky enough to own it after you pass the keys.

Larry

I would say that the Pantera has a high mortalaty rate. 50% would be a reasonable guess.
It is true that certain cars like a Cobra have a high 90% survival rate (and climbing). The Pantera doesn't seem to be one of those cars.
For one thing, this is a car that totals over $100,000 in parts to build and only has at best about a 50% recovery rate. You can build a Cobra from a serial number for 25% of what it's fair market value is.
That just isn't the case with a Pantera.
Hopefully that will improve in the future, but that won't change the past.
One of the factors that is holding back the value on the Panteras is the extrodinary cost of parts and the high labor hours to fix one.
Being way ahead of it's time as far as design and concept help it.
The fact that finding a completely original one is so rare is a statement about them also.
A GT5'd '72 doesn't seem to be too desireable right now. Maybe for $25000, but not for the $100000 the owner spent on it.
There seems to be an extrordinary number of 71-2's for sale now. Some vendors have stated off of the record, that they think that is because parts for those cars are virtually all gone.
Only time will tell what happens to the Pantera.

I have to admit on the outside world I see a lot more movement on the PANTERA then in the past... they are showing up in my nieghborhood more and more ... when before it was just a special car I never seen in any car shows, race tracks etc.

Apparently Suffern, NY is the epicenter of Panteradome

There are only about 42 Panteras
in Australia and that figure should be very close!
Survey from a magazine article written by one
of the major insurance agents here.
Dennis

Larry, and all you other guys, are right and I guess I know it. It makes me sad because I always thought that if anybody really wanted one bad enough, there were plenty of cars to go around. Now I am begining to see that is just not true. All it would take is for some movie, song or book to set off some craze and there will not be enough supply to meet the demand. If it becomes stylish for some odd ball reason, some kind of fad, it will shoot through the roof. Present day owners will be forced out as they are made rediculously high offers they can't refuse. Then when they try and buy another car, they will realize their mistake. Probably get despondant and kill themselves. Man, this really sucks.
Rantings of a delusional old coot you say??? Not hardly. They recently remade Pink Panther. What if the producer had gotten the bright idea of actualy buying that one for sale here and putting it in the movie for Steve Martin to drive around in??? People would have been going, what kinda car is that?? We had a close call when a Mangusta was in the background of kill bill. BUt people probably figured it was some kind of science fiction car. They are making video games now that have Panteras in them. Once kids figure out they can buy these things for real they will no longer want to buy Honda civics and put a hundred grand of bling in to them. They will buy up all the Panteras instead.
What if they get the idea of making a movie about Mad Dog Accentuenti???? Ever think of that??
We need to be more carefull. Stop showing off. We have a good thing going here. The best kept automotive secret on the palnet. If this gets out, we will all be dodering old fools telling whoever will listen, how we used to own a Pantera, and they will put a thousand dollar coin in our cups for us to buy a cup of coffee with.

When the Pantera came out, it didn't have the same respect as the Corvettes or some of the other cars. Quite a few were thrashed and disgarded. One reason being it was not exactly a mainstreem car thought to be plagued with rust and overheating issues. Truth or not alot of people rode'em hard and disgarded them.

Todays view of cars is a bit different. Now there are so many aftermarket parts you can build a pantera for (a lot less that $100K) from a pretty rough shell. It is a car that "numbers matching" is not critical, esential or even overly desired so taking an old barn find:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars/panttransam/ran1b.jpg

and turning it into a hot car is not of of reach for most people. With aftermarket suppliers such as Jegs, (etc) and the large number of published Pantera's that have been done up with great vision (see the car of the month) more people then ever are pulling cars out of barns and turning them into works of art.

In my entire area, the 2 Pantera's I own and this one in the barn are the only one's I have seen. Outside this area, the only other 2 I had ever seen were in the posetion of some one I had known. You don't see as many in the midwest as you do on the coastal areas.

Gary

Did the factory make right hand drive components for the Pantera? If not, how do you change them?

Gary what you are saying is true. I bought mine in Ohio. I moved down here to Tennessee. Right away people told me there was another just like it in a neighboring town. It was true because I saw it once. Also a guy who works here saw mine and started talking to me about it and he found one for himself down in North Carolina and has restored it. I imagine barn Panteras will become like blank easles for automtive artists to sketch their visions upon. YOu are right, no matter what happens it is all good.

Hi Detom, just a few years back i picked up a few parts from a guy in northern california that took a running panter with 1/4 panel damage and cut it into peices so that he could use the sheet metal on one of his other cars that had front end damage. he said looking back he should have straigtened the 1/4 panel and found some other front end sheet metal.

I think there are about 42 Panteras in the Suffern area, LOL!

In my area (Ottawa, Ontario) there are at least six Panteras that I know of (have seen) and hear about 3 or 4 that are in hiding. We have 1 million people (metro population), so one Pantera for each 100K people. North America has approx. 330 million people, so there SHOULD be 3300 Panteras in North America, assuming that I live in a statistically average place (which, I fear I do...). California probably has twice the Pantera density, and I’m sure Alaska is somewhat lower. Overall, I’m sure that there are a lot more Cats out there than we get to see, as I know of several Pantera owners that are quite reclusive.

quote:

Originally posted by pan2502:
Hi Detom, just a few years back i picked up a few parts from a guy in northern california that took a running panter with 1/4 panel damage and cut it into peices so that he could use the sheet metal on one of his other cars that had front end damage. he said looking back he should have straigtened the 1/4 panel and found some other front end sheet metal.

You made that up just to scare me!!!

What's funny is a local car show had about 10 DeLoreans. Funny, they made slighty fewer of them, you can buy one for almost nothing and yet people still don't throw them away. I know a Delorean was never reguarded as much of a car (to say the least) but no one throws them away.

Gary

Mike Mayberry has a way of finding sevreral low mileage, unmolested Panteras every year. They are out there, stuffed away in garages, receiving little attention, seldom if ever used by their owners. Through a family member, I know of one such car in the area where I grew up. The owners do not belong to POCA or PI. The car is no big deal to them, they do not share our passion.

The number of Panteras used regularly by their owners is small compared to the number that were sold, over 5262 in the US alone, not including the grey market imports. There are gems to be found out there, and there are total loss rust buckets too.

We've all heard of someone who has found a rare Corvette or Mustang or some other collector car parked in a barn under an inch of dust, and acquired it for pennys on the dollar. Like I wrote a moment ago, Mike Mayberry finds them. If interest in the marque is escalating, then there are non-owners who will begin doing just that. It might be fun for someone else here on the BB to play detective and hunt Panteras.

Your friend on the DTBB

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
What's funny is a local car show had about 10 DeLoreans. Funny, they made slighty fewer of them, you can buy one for almost nothing and yet people still don't throw them away. I know a Delorean was never reguarded as much of a car (to say the least) but no one throws them away.

Kind of like steak knives? Well, they are made of stainless steel!

LOL.............

i wish i did, i ended up with the roof of the car and all of the suspension.

quote:

It might be fun for someone else here on the BB to play detective and hunt Panteras.

Sounds like a cool premise for a TV show!! We could call it "Magnum PI"

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
We could call it "Magnum PI"...

good play on words DeTom!

your friend on the DTBB

Here in the High Desert, Lancaster, Palmdale area,where the Space Shuttle lands, there are five Panteras I know of for sure. Most people around here think Panters are little babies the Shuttle dropped coming in for a landing.

How many towns, villages and cities does anyone think are in the US?
Better yet, how many Ford or LM Dealers in the US?
Is there one Pantera for each one?
Let's see, I just read this from George this morning, and don't quite remember it exactly, 5,300+ US cars plus 700ish for the sest of the world. Regardless of wishfull thinking, they ain't all still around.
Considering that there are "at least 42 reported
in Suffern, NY", that doesn't leave a lot to go around.
Stop it or you're gonna make me see them in every alleyway. OOPS, nah sorry, that was just a flock of Emus. You gotta look out for them, they're bastards.

Well Panteradoug a little history lesson..Suffern was the site of one big FORD manufacturing plant ... there were tow major FORD and Licoln Mercury Dealers here ... did they sell PANTERA's I have no idea... but lets just say its a small town were we dont lock our doors do we DZJEC ....opps dont let that out ... thats why i moved from YONKERS 20 years ago ... the nieghborhood wasss aaaa changin ... anyway .. the moral to my story keep your eyes open .. thats how I found the 2 427 SOHC's in a little diesel shop off the beatin path and no body knew what those daaarrr motors were in that there corner ..... I think they are tractor motors or sum thin ...

I agree 100% but I dont think they are all gone. There was one I mentioned was in a dealership for many years sitting and they day I listed it Chris told me it was gone. SOLD. I think an 1989. I know of two in garages and just heard one was sold last week.

What can I say I have 4 spots for my cars and as of now 3 are filled. Looking for one more....got any leads.

R

Leads, nah, just some old Chevys with bullet holes in 'em from the drive by shootings.
There was one other Pantera I saw in Yonkers, but the owner wasn't interested in talking to anyone.
I understand that. My neighbors think this is a Lamborghini. I don't correct them any more.

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
Well Panteradoug a little history lesson..Suffern was the site of one big FORD manufacturing plant ... there were tow major FORD and Licoln Mercury Dealers here ... did they sell PANTERA's I have no idea... but lets just say its a small town were we dont lock our doors do we DZJEC ....opps dont let that out ... thats why i moved from YONKERS 20 years ago ... the nieghborhood wasss aaaa changin ... anyway .. the moral to my story keep your eyes open .. thats how I found the 2 427 SOHC's in a little diesel shop off the beatin path and no body knew what those daaarrr motors were in that there corner ..... I think they are tractor motors or sum thin ...

I agree 100% but I dont think they are all gone. There was one I mentioned was in a dealership for many years sitting and they day I listed it Chris told me it was gone. SOLD. I think an 1989. I know of two in garages and just heard one was sold last week.

What can I say I have 4 spots for my cars and as of now 3 are filled. Looking for one more....got any leads.

R

HEY!!! You never said you had TWO SHOCs!! No fair!!! You have to sell one of them to me now. I thought you only had the one so I was gonna leave you alone about it, but now that I found out you got two, you have to sell me one. It's the law. Gotta obey the law of situational ethics, now.

My guess is a little more than half MAY have survived. Out of that half, maybe only 8% or less are totally original clean cars. A great percentage of cars are nice drivers, and show quaility cars. Certainly, there is a remainder of cars needing restoration work. These numbers are speculation on my part....
I do find it hard to believe that there are many low mileage Panteras out there. It seems like a Pantera is always popping up on E-bay with ONLY 17,000 miles....come on. Unless an owner can prove an accurate owner history and maintenance record, it means nothing to claim low mileage. (unless the car itself with no doubt shows minimal wear)

Ok so I'm gonna put insult to injury and tell that I was getting my Girls car inspected and the guy told me in RAMSEY NJ there is in a shop where a MANGUSTA sits . Not sure why all these leads are jumpin out but I'm only reporting the facts ...... I'm not crazy about them but they are of historical value... I have not pursured the car but they have no reason to lie.

Hi everybody,

How many of us here, on the DTBB, had to wait, for years, to fulfill our dream. To own our dream car, a Pantera. Tim, you are so gifted at writing, I wish I could express my thoughts right now as eloquently as you.

For every one of us here, there are dozens of people with the same dream, as of yet unfulfilled.

For every Pantera out there collecting dust in a barn, or rusting away in some dark corner, there's a future owner waiting to lavish time, elbow grease, and hard earned money, to bring it into shape, like so many here have done. For no other reason than because ITS A PANTERA. The car they have dreamed about for a lifetime.

What is a rust bucket to one person, is an achievable dream to another. What is an ugly duckling to one, is a classic deTomaso sports car to another, only needing a little tlc to restore it to it's rightful glory.

Each of us are here on the DTBB because we are passionate about our deTomaso autos. Even the visitors to this bulletin board, who are lurking, eager to learn more, have a passion inside themselves that is luring them to this place.

The Pantera is a dream car. I am thankful to have the chance to own & drive this mechanical, rolling, work of art. I want to do all I can to help others realize this dream as well. I don't want to tell people that there are only "X" number of cars left, when I have no data to back me up. I would rather encourage people to go out and find their dream. Like Ron just wrote, these deTomaso autos are out there, waiting to be discovered by the right person.

It doesn't matter if you are a concourse original guy, a mildly upgraded guy, a wildly customized guy or a rabid racer guy, we have a common passion, we can relate to one another. It isn't hard therefore, to relate to the people who are in the looking stage, or the dreaming stage. they have the passion too, they just don't have the car yet. We were once in their shoes ourselves. Lets not discourage them by saying the number of deTomaso autos are dwindling. The stats aren't there to support such a statement anyway. Rather lets encourage the future owners, folks who share our passion, to keep looking, because the Panteras ARE out there!

Wow George, how much kava-kava have you had there buddy? Ok you are right apparently these cars breed in seclusion. There are more of them every day.
My car keeps rolling too. It must be the dam parking brake again. How do I stop that?
As far as finding something in a barn, maybe but I need to find a barn first. I'll bet that there isn't a barn within a 75 mile radius.
Incidentally I like your red boots there George, where'd you find them?

Actually Tim I believe the low milage part. I drive mine maybe 500 miles a year. I really do not enjoy using it to run errands and such. WIth me it is very special to JUST drive the car. The frequency makes it even more special. I know some use this as an everyday car. But to me it would loose some appeal if it wear driven everywhere.
Hard for me to explain, but I think I am more common in my perception than you may think. My car has less than 25K miles on it. I believe it to be totaly acurate.

I am always surprized when I see a high mileage Pantera. I know mine has only 32,000 miles on it. I would "expect" California cars to have more mileage on them. I've seen two year old cars with 100,000 on them there.
I think they must be driven around the clock 24/7 like Police cars are.
It's the only place I've ever seen with six lanes of bumper to bumper traffic at 3 am. Don't they ever sleep?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I am always surprized when I see a high mileage Pantera. I know mine has only 32,000 miles on it. I would "expect" California cars to have more mileage on them. I've seen two year old cars with 100,000 on them there.
I think they must be driven around the clock 24/7 like Police cars are.
It's the only place I've ever seen with six lanes of bumper to bumper traffic at 3 am. Don't they ever sleep?

Heck, even my everyday work car is three and a half years old now and just turned over 22K miles. I can't figure out where people go all the time to put on so much milage.

Hey Tom" I have to agree I have no idea where everybody drives? I Owned a Toyota 4-runner from 1995 and just sold it here in 2006 and put on 60,000 miles less than 6K per year. That included trips from AZ to CA and back many times. I would be surprised if my Cat gets more than 1500 miles a year. year 1 rolled by with my new ownership of #2098 and 1500 miles was good for me! Anymore it would ruin the mistique of driving these aging race machines.

Yep John. Anything you drive everyday is just another car. You could drive and enzo to work everyday it it is gonna wind up with burger kind wrappers on the floor sooner or later.

Welcome to So Cal guys. I live 33 miles from work, commute 66 miles per day. Because I choose to live in an environment other than the madness of the greater Los Angeles area. My commute time is less than many people's who live half the distance from work. Grid lock is a major problem in So Cal.

I also travel alot, visiting or assisting friends, family & acquaintences. And, there are alot of wonderful roads to drive to the north of my home. Whether its Highway 1, or the 49'r Highway or any number of other lesser traveled winding roads. Plus, sometimes I just like getting away from it all & downloading somewhere like Jalama Beach. I love traveling in the Pantera, everybody wants to talk about it, makes wonderful opportunities to meet new people, single ladies, etc.

so I put 25,000 to 30,000 miles per year on the daily driver, and I "only" put 7,000 miles on the Pantera this year. It's got 70,000 on the odo now.

That number will go up, as I set the Pantera up for extended traveling. I want to get around North America in the Pantera & visit as many of you as want to meet me.

I'll leave the red boots at home, OK Doug?

Well you'll put a couple more miles then 7000 cruzin here.
It would be good to leave the boots home George. They will clash with my cape.
'you got any pics of that low IDF manifold? I had a bad day with these IDA's.