Listed as a '72, but has to be a '71, right?
Red pushbutton on Ebay
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Especially with that serial number. 1020 would be a very early pushbutton, one of the first cars built. It's possible the dealer is confused, or perhaps it sat in Modena for a year before finding a buyer, but the car was definitely built very early. I bet you find all kinds of funky little differences.
I have 1280 which was sent to France first. It is titled as a 1972. Presumably these are cars pushed aside for what ever reason when they were trying to get geared up for non-pushbutton production geared for the US. They were latter completed and titled from the factory and sent to non-US countries.
Gary
Gary
quote:Originally posted by comp2:
I have 1280 which was sent to France first. It is titled as a 1972. Presumably these are cars pushed aside for what ever reason when they were trying to get geared up for non-pushbutton production geared for the US. They were latter completed and titled from the factory and sent to non-US countries.
Gary
I got to spend time with 1256 that is located in France a few years ago. I’m amazed how different the parts are on the early cars. Especially the front end body parts, wheel houses, etc.
Mike
Mine is in storage till I can get to it. I have been working concentrating on the restoration of 1905. When I get done I hope to tear into it. (I meant to tear into 1280 first but one thing led to another on the other one).
I know a few things are different like a ribbed deck lid and trunk buttons on both the door jam and the rear. I have had a few "experts" tell me it's not possible because they have never seen it. That is usually when Pepsi comes out of my nose. I think the fabric seats are even factory.
These are cars are not documented USA produced with spec sheets. They don't always follow the specific pattern people say they have. It's kind of like the Pirate laws. They are more guidelines. These cars finished up "ad hock" still have stories to tell.
I know a few things are different like a ribbed deck lid and trunk buttons on both the door jam and the rear. I have had a few "experts" tell me it's not possible because they have never seen it. That is usually when Pepsi comes out of my nose. I think the fabric seats are even factory.
These are cars are not documented USA produced with spec sheets. They don't always follow the specific pattern people say they have. It's kind of like the Pirate laws. They are more guidelines. These cars finished up "ad hock" still have stories to tell.
What do you mean by a ribbed decklid?
Interesting car. Especially since it's only 5 digits from mine. Mine is supposedly a '74. I wonder why they start the VIN with JA. Should be TH, I believe.
Another thing; I've been following some auctions on Ebay lately. Lot's of the bidders have usernames with several asterics in the middle. All bidders on this car, and the other car from this seller are the same. Oh well...
Another thing; I've been following some auctions on Ebay lately. Lot's of the bidders have usernames with several asterics in the middle. All bidders on this car, and the other car from this seller are the same. Oh well...
The VIN should be: THPNLL01020.
It is already in the Registry, with pics from some time ago.
Being the 20th (or so) car finished, it is naturally (built in) 1971. However cars in Europe are listed by their (First sold / or) first registered date. So this car could have been first sold in 1972. (There is an early 71 with a "date" of 1974 for example.)
This is why the Registry field for the date is the date of MANUFACTURE not first sold or first titled.
In the last 2 years or so there was a Pantera for sale, that had never been "First Titled". I guess one could call it ~new, or a dealer demo. Hmmm, a 35 year old new car!
Anyway...
This car has what appears to be all the typical features of the (very) early cars. I would suspect there is a rear deck release in the driver's "B" pillar.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Chuck Melton
www.DeTomasoRegistry.org
It is already in the Registry, with pics from some time ago.
Being the 20th (or so) car finished, it is naturally (built in) 1971. However cars in Europe are listed by their (First sold / or) first registered date. So this car could have been first sold in 1972. (There is an early 71 with a "date" of 1974 for example.)
This is why the Registry field for the date is the date of MANUFACTURE not first sold or first titled.
In the last 2 years or so there was a Pantera for sale, that had never been "First Titled". I guess one could call it ~new, or a dealer demo. Hmmm, a 35 year old new car!
Anyway...
This car has what appears to be all the typical features of the (very) early cars. I would suspect there is a rear deck release in the driver's "B" pillar.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Chuck Melton
www.DeTomasoRegistry.org
just so you know the ebay bidders with *** in the name is ebay's way of hiding the bidders identity.Scammers were getting the identity of the bidders and doing naughty things !!
I don't think a "Manufactured date" has any relevance to anything. In the USA cars are issued S#'s based on year an approval. This has absolutely no correlation to what other countries have done.
For instance Carrol Shelby put his "continuation" S#'s on cars built in the last 20 years (some not even by him). Cars were built in the 80's or what ever but titled as 1960's based on the title scam he had going on and even the manufacture date would have been irrelevant. Only 1965 relevance was the amount of cars allowed to produce in a loophole carried on for years because he could not full fill his orders.
Older chassis laying around and completed from parts titled by Italy in 1972 and that were manufactured and produced in 1972 were 1972 cars. Followers may like to call them 1971 cars but that doesn't make them so. They were not built in 1971, they were not titled in 1971, Italy calls them 1972 cars and the only people calling them 1971 cars are the followers who want to change history. The serial numbers may not fit the chart some one put together but if they were manufactured and titled in 1972 DeTomaso calls them a 1972 and I call them a 1972 automobile.
For instance Carrol Shelby put his "continuation" S#'s on cars built in the last 20 years (some not even by him). Cars were built in the 80's or what ever but titled as 1960's based on the title scam he had going on and even the manufacture date would have been irrelevant. Only 1965 relevance was the amount of cars allowed to produce in a loophole carried on for years because he could not full fill his orders.
Older chassis laying around and completed from parts titled by Italy in 1972 and that were manufactured and produced in 1972 were 1972 cars. Followers may like to call them 1971 cars but that doesn't make them so. They were not built in 1971, they were not titled in 1971, Italy calls them 1972 cars and the only people calling them 1971 cars are the followers who want to change history. The serial numbers may not fit the chart some one put together but if they were manufactured and titled in 1972 DeTomaso calls them a 1972 and I call them a 1972 automobile.
Comp2
Thats the point of the arguement. The car was built in 1971, presumed because of the construction and parts used, but tilted as a 72 buecause of date sold. It's the same as your Shelby arguement but reversed. They postdated the car and Shelby predated. If a car is built and completed in 1971 its a 1971 even if it was never sold until 2001. In Italy it would be a 2001. Thats why year of manufacture is relevant.
Thats the point of the arguement. The car was built in 1971, presumed because of the construction and parts used, but tilted as a 72 buecause of date sold. It's the same as your Shelby arguement but reversed. They postdated the car and Shelby predated. If a car is built and completed in 1971 its a 1971 even if it was never sold until 2001. In Italy it would be a 2001. Thats why year of manufacture is relevant.
chassis built or car built? If they pile up chassis and fenders but don't built the car till 1972 then, well the car was built in 1972 right? In the USA a title for the chassis issued long before it was built. Not so in this situation. Serial number assigned to a part of the car but the car parts set aside. Car built in 1972, title issued 1972 not the way the USA is done.
Lets put it this way.
The Government assigned and approved a VIN for Carrol Shelby and called it a year regardless of when it was completed. Shelby called a Cobra they had another kit car company make and called it their own. They assigned it a continuation number and called it a 1965.
If the Italian government assigned the VIN and date in 1971 or 1972 then it would have a build date of 1971 or 1972. If the government didn't, and the DeTomaso factory gets around to building the car in 1972 and they both call it a 1972, how can it be trully considered a 1971?
If I stamp a serial number on a tube a steel in 1971, sit it in my garage for 10 years, get approval to build a car out of it in 1981, it would be a 1981 car.
On the other hand if I do it they way it worked out for shelby, I get the documentation, I get the approval from the government to build a car to speck, in 1971, and assign a serial number to a year, then it doesn't matter when I build the car. The government says it's a 1971.
The Government assigned and approved a VIN for Carrol Shelby and called it a year regardless of when it was completed. Shelby called a Cobra they had another kit car company make and called it their own. They assigned it a continuation number and called it a 1965.
If the Italian government assigned the VIN and date in 1971 or 1972 then it would have a build date of 1971 or 1972. If the government didn't, and the DeTomaso factory gets around to building the car in 1972 and they both call it a 1972, how can it be trully considered a 1971?
If I stamp a serial number on a tube a steel in 1971, sit it in my garage for 10 years, get approval to build a car out of it in 1981, it would be a 1981 car.
On the other hand if I do it they way it worked out for shelby, I get the documentation, I get the approval from the government to build a car to speck, in 1971, and assign a serial number to a year, then it doesn't matter when I build the car. The government says it's a 1971.
Here is another worm.
DeTomaso had a chassis left over after he bought the company from Ford. He continued building cars after 1974 even though they were not shipped to the USA. Many car parts had serial numbers but were not built unil 1975, 76, 77, and on and on. Do we go back and call all these cars by the year the pedal box was stamped? If so we have a lot of back dating to do.
In fact I am sure a whole group of 71's could be called 70's, a whole groups of 72's could be called 71's, and so.
DeTomaso had a chassis left over after he bought the company from Ford. He continued building cars after 1974 even though they were not shipped to the USA. Many car parts had serial numbers but were not built unil 1975, 76, 77, and on and on. Do we go back and call all these cars by the year the pedal box was stamped? If so we have a lot of back dating to do.
In fact I am sure a whole group of 71's could be called 70's, a whole groups of 72's could be called 71's, and so.
quote:Ex owner of #5012
Rapier, so you sold your car? That didn't take long, but I'm sure RHD cars are at a premium. Did it stay in the UK?
Fact remains that no one knows when it was built and given that Europe titles cars based on year sold and not year of manufacture plus the vin puts it in the line as an early pushbutton you have to conclude that its a '71 in order to standardize the marque. If the history can be traced through photo evidence or some other form that indeed this car was manufactured in '72 then by all means its a late early pushbutton.
When I said year of manufacture I pressumed model year of manufacture not actual.
When I said year of manufacture I pressumed model year of manufacture not actual.
V8capri; thanks for telling me the ebay thing. Stupid me...
I have tried to find documentation about where and when my P was registered the first time, with no luck so far. But it's an early Pushbutton, that's for sure.
I have tried to find documentation about where and when my P was registered the first time, with no luck so far. But it's an early Pushbutton, that's for sure.
My car is #1272...A euro push button.
It is registered as a 1972.
I have a letter from the DeTomaso factory saying this car was completed in November of 1971, but not sold until June of 1972. It was sold in Italy....
It is registered as a 1972.
I have a letter from the DeTomaso factory saying this car was completed in November of 1971, but not sold until June of 1972. It was sold in Italy....
My car is # 1155. It was first registered in Germany in 72. So in the papers it is a 1972.
Judged by the VIN no. logic it is suposed to have been asembled in March 71 I believe ?
Best regards
Frode
Judged by the VIN no. logic it is suposed to have been asembled in March 71 I believe ?
Best regards
Frode