Pantera #3280 - GT5-S Replica - Seeking history

I’m looking for history on Pantera #3280. The car is for sale in Florida at a specialty car dealer. Here’s what I have been able to find out through internet research and then speaking with the dealer. The car has been converted with a GT5-S body kit, supposedly from Hall Pantera. It looks like it probably has quite a few Hall parts. I emailed Tara but without the name of the owner that may have commissioned the work she can’t really help. I guess they didn’t track cars by serial number. The car was purchased out of Arizona in 2014 by the dealer in Florida who sold it to the current owner. I’m going to ask the dealer if he would be willing to share who he bought the car from but I thought someone here would recognize the car and be able to share some history. I’m looking to find out who built the car and get more detail than what the seller has, which isn’t very much. The registry only has what the sales add states. I’d feel better flying from California to Florida to look at it if I knew who built it.

If you have any knowledge about this car please share it.

Steve

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Well executed 5-S are rare. I'd suspect Hall, Dennis Quella, Don Byars. The interior makes me suspect Hall. One up-close look at the paint would tell you if it was Hall or Byars. Picture on Provamo reveals the car had Kinesis wheels at one time, which is a clue it might be Quella. I've seen that engine compartment before with the stripes and Pantera GT5S wording; just can't remember where or when.
I’m leaning towards Hall too due to the parts on the car and the statement that it’s a Hall body kit. Looks like a Phoneix radiator. How would I know looking at the paint? The current wheels are too big, 19”, in my opinion. It is being sold with the 17” Etoile wheels seen on the registry.

Steve
quote:
Originally posted by JTpantera:
George, the remark about the paint being an indicator is intriguing for us less familiar with the West Coast constructors. Please clarify the remark.


30 coats of hand rubbed lacquer. They have a smoothness, gloss, and depth to them that is instantly recognizable. You know you're not looking at "typical" $5000 or $10,000 show car paint jobs. Some Hall paint jobs are 40 years old, they all, no matter the age, still look new. Don's are just the same. Its the kind of job that you'd find on million dollar pre-war cars.

If the car in question is a Hall car, then I hope the buyer is a fan of purple because painting over the paint job would be an error.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Michael Arcaro built it in his auto body shop in Palm Springs. I recall they used some kind of water base paint.


Jan,
Do you have any other information to share on the car? Do you know who the previous owner is? Feel free to PM me to take this off-line if you prefer. Can you speak to the quality of the build? I've been doing some research here on the forum about the GT5-S conversions and find statements that the Hall fenders to not fit well or are not dimensionally the same from side to side. The paint is not my major concern, the body work is knowing what it takes to change sheet metal on these cars.

Steve
quote:
Originally posted by T.Solo:
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Michael Arcaro built it in his auto body shop in Palm Springs. I recall they used some kind of water base paint.


Jan,
Do you have any other information to share on the car? Do you know who the previous owner is? Feel free to PM me to take this off-line if you prefer. Can you speak to the quality of the build? I've been doing some research here on the forum about the GT5-S conversions and find statements that the Hall fenders to not fit well or are not dimensionally the same from side to side. The paint is not my major concern, the body work is knowing what it takes to change sheet metal on these cars.

Steve


Haha and the wife says I can't remember shit anymore. Partly true after the docs blew my brain cells with benzos; but that's another story. As far as this car, I remember I talked to the owner at the 2006 Temecula Rod Run where he had his red car in the show (see name tag below). I took photos of his red but below are just a couple shots. But I never saw his GT5S although I thought I saw it for sale a few years later but can't find the photos in my files so maybe I didn't save anything. Also, if you have the 1998 POCA Profiles #3 it talks about the car and the build with Hall flares, etc.

In my opinion don't worry about the Hall GT5S fender builds not being perfect from side to side. Its fact that the real GT5S fenders are not perfect either, although they are better proportionally. Just look at the photos they have on the website, can you tell the difference? If not, then WTF it doesn't matter.

I thought you already had a Pantera, no?? Or are you Lays potato chips man like me "can't have just one". I have been watching that car for a couple weeks, so you better jump on it before I do. Just kidding, 3s enough! If the car is done anything near the red car I saw, then I would snatch it up. Years have passed though so seeing it in person would matter lots. They didn't show the full driver seat, so who knows how that looks. If it was used a lot, an ivory interior could present issues. Plus ask them about that rear driver side fender whether it got rubbed or if its just clear coat coming off, or maybe it has a lower clear bar coming off in that spot (no big deal if so). In fact it looks like all the lower portions of the car were either repainted or have a clear braw. Look close you will see it. I suspect clear braw from the photos.

Good luck with it dude. Looks like you are in CA, so if you get it lets talk to Sammy Hagar about putting it in his beach concert Oct 6 at Huntington Beach. My red 5S will be at the show and would be cool to have yours too.

One more plus on such 5S builds, since you are in CA unlike the factory 5S you can beef up the engine more to whatever you want without smog if you wanted...yum yum! George is right, you will see right away in person if it was a simple $10K paint job or $60K+ job. But since they guy owned a body shop I presume it was done nice like his red car. Not sure why the car is so cheap though, maybe modest engine build or funky look with the terrible wheel set up. I tried to crop it to see if the build was done right, but in reality I think the Hall fenders only go on one way anyway. Also not sure why it is in Florida since it was a Palm Springs car. I hear Florida can do funky VIN stuff, or maybe the last owner retired there.
I believe there are some pictures of this car on ferrarichat in the other Italian forum. It is in the pantera appreciation thread which is now on page two. Once you click on the thread it is on page 17. It is owned by William H. His name on the forum is the hubbster.
It looks like a 4x4 right now, the angle of the rear a-arms is crazy to fit those wheels.

Speaking of paint (which may be tough to match) it looks to have some damage on the rear of the left rear fender lip. I don't think it's the light/reflection as it's in all photo angles.

The Hall (and other aftermarket) fenders aren't really fenders per se, they are a hand formed flare piece welded together out of multiple strips you cut your fender and weld in.
@Jan, I don't know how anyone would be able to remember all that but thank you very much. Very helpful!

Agreed the car sits too high. The 19" wheels do not fit the car. I much prefer my car with 17" wheels and lower control arms level with the ground. See the picture below for the paint issue I think you guys are referring to. I have sent off this picture to the seller to inquire about it.

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Yeah that's the spot on the fender, just looks like clear coat to me. If you like the overall car I would fly there and check it out in person, as only then you can tell how the car looks overall. You can fix the level of the car and get new wheels right for the car, etc. All that is really small stuff. Compare the passenger fender side too and see if you can live with the Hall fender differences. To me its like the model with the DDs, where one may be slightly different and until someone brings it to your attention or you examine real close you would have never noticed. In waiting you may miss out on a nice car, as I know that red one was done real well. Did you see the POVA issue which talked about the build? It said a new type of water base paint was used (well new way back then). I never heard of a water base, so I would check on that too. But from the photos it looks like it was done well with lotsa prep and seems like it stood the test of time.
Agreed, a personal inspection might seem a lot of travel and expense but it's good insurance. Nothing worse than buying something you think is done and having to dig straight into it. There are enough little things here I'd want the peace of mind.

Here's what the Hall fenders look like prior to cut and shut, depending who does the work depends how much bondo there is covering it up!

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Yes, as noted by Does 200 above, the car was featured in the 1998 No.3 POCA Profiles. Below are pictures taken from that article that show the fender flares being installed. You can clearly see the different formed pieces that were welded together. Just a handful compared to the picture posted above.

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I wonder, though how those rear fenders will look even on a smaller wheel. They don't seem symmetrical around the wheel - they open up too much at the 10:00 - 11:00 position.

Nevertheless, after looking at the car and looking at the article, it looks like it is well done relative to paint, construction, engine and interior!

Rocky
Here is the best I could do with a side by side comparison of a real '87 GT5-S and 3280 with the 17" wheel installed. I think that with the 17", or maybe 18" back wheels at the most, and lowered a fair amount it would look good. The wheel openings are just not round like a narrow body car.

Steve

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quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
Personal opinion, but even a 17" wheel looks large on a wide body. Now that tires are available once again the only way to go IMO is a 15" 10 spoke Campi.


Ditto.

And ... reproductions of the 15" wheels are available from Roin/Mr.Fiat
That’s right guys, there isn’t that much difference in the look of real vs Hall 5S flares. And I think 17” look fine (well at least on my real & Hall 5S cars, although maybe I am unconsciously bias, haha). Pick it up bro before I get the itch for another, along with wife delivered divorce papers. In reality I am more into LP640 cars now, although this one has always been in the back of my mind.
I have a question about the mirrors on this car. I know they are most likely sourced from Wilkinson. Are they mounted with bolts through the windshield frame or are they mounted with tape like the vent window version? Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of how these mount?

Steve

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Yes bolt through, Larry Stock mounted a set for a customer and the A pillar really isn't strong enough they move around terribly. Ended up removing them and mounting on the quarter window, that was an expensive lesson!

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