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Keith Martin can be counted on to slam DeTomaso cars each year when he serves as the announcer at the Concorso Italiano. I have seen him ask owners about their rust and electrical problems when he interviews them and my favorite was when he declared that DeTomaso was the biggest crook or genius there ever was, as he introduced Tom Tjaarda. I really like his magazine but he has a bone to pick with DeTomasos and it doesn't help values because he is very influential, or should I say was? Check this out:

From Jalopnik

From the Hatfield and McCoy department comes news from Deep Dish, our source on the inside. The story begins with Craig Jackson of Barrett-Jackson Auction fame. The plot gets soupier with the entry of editor Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, the premiere magazine of the automobile auction world.
Seems Keith penned a riff focusing in on the coming burst of the muscle car bubble which got Jackson teeth-gnashing Yosemite Sam-style pissed off.
Jackson was evidently blinded by this same anger when he had Martin escorted off the Barrett-Jackson Auction grounds this morning. Martin was permanently banned to boot. We say blinded for what Jackson didn't know was that Martin was at the auction to gather and gawk not only for Sports Car Market, but also some outfit that calls itself the New York Times. – MIKE BUMBECK Keith Martins column from the January 07 issue of Sports Car Market

Russian Roulette with a Full Clip
You'll never see a 275 GTB/4 that started life as a green 4-cylinder with a vinyl top and a column shift automatic. But you might see a Hemi 'Cuda that way

Recent record auction results show collectors still buying what they want, when they want. The market is strong, and in spite of "gloom and doom"
predictions from many experts, we are still seeing unprecedented disposable income on the table.
But along with new money comes new buyers. I see a lot of new buyers playing muscle car Russian roulette with a semi-auto and a full clip. While I have great confidence that quality cars will continue to climb in value, watching some less-than-great cars sell gives me chills. These are the cars that are bound to take a huge hit in value very soon. The market is showing signs of a serious adjustment for certain cars. Here are some examples.
CONTINUING WHAT?
"Continuation" cars: What is a continuation car? To me, this is a car with no history built to replicate a genuine example of the same. Somehow buyers have been hoodwinked into believing press releases and hype, valuing these cars higher than the original examples they are "continuing." This I do not understand. What would possess somebody to pay $400,000-plus for a 2006 "Motion" continuation Camaro that has zero resemblance to the original 1969 version it was built to commemorate, when an original could be had for less money?
I use the Motion car as an example, but plenty of cars fall into this
category: Continuation Cobras, GT350s, "Super Snakes," Hemi Darts, etc. One must consider any purchase of this genre to be similar to a new car, since that is what they are. Buy one because you like it, not because it is a true collector car or an investment. Park it next to the Ford GT you paid $100,000 over sticker for and watch them depreciate together. Don't park it next to your pedigreed muscle car and expect a similar return on your money.
"Replica" or "Clone" cars: A less authentic or less endorsed version of a "continuation" car, these are built from scratch, or an upgraded version built from a lesser car. For example, from a $150,000 "restification," a six-cylinder Barracuda emerges as a "Hemi 'Cuda." Or a base Malibu gets turned into a Chevelle LS6 SS 454. Eleanor Mustangs also fall into this classification.
DON'T PAY REAL MONEY FOR A FAKE
This is a great way for enthusiasts on a budget to build the car they want, but not a great way to get into the hobby when you pay real car money for a clone or replica car. Many people learn quickly that what starts out as a fantastic plan to turn their nice 1965 Mustang fastback into a "Shelby GT350" for $10,000 at Billy Bob's local body shop just won't work out that way. By the time they are done, it is a $100,000 investment in a $25,000 car.
If you cannot afford to buy the real thing outright, consider financing or leasing it. Use your clone car money as a downstroke on the real deal. Trust me—it will be cheaper in the long run. Better still, if you just have to have a Hemi clone car, buy somebody else's at fifty cents on the dollar and drive the wheels off it. More of these are getting built every day, and values are going nowhere but down.
Mopar Hemi E-body cars: Now for something I will really get hate mail on—let's talk about Hemi 'Cudas and Challengers. With values that tripled literally overnight, these cars are bound for a "time out." While I do not think values will drop on really fine examples, I do think the day has come for them to stop appreciating at such a rapid rate. Going from $100,000 cars to $300,000 has brought a lot of cars out of the woodwork, and the rapid price increases that started four years ago mean that a lot of cars are just now getting the "let's cash in" restorations completed and are hitting the market. I won't even comment on the Hemi E-body convertibles selling for multiple millions of dollars.
B-BODIES A BETTER BET
Historically, the Mopar Hemi B-bodies (Road Runner, GTX, Super Bee, etc.) were always roughly the same value as a good 'Cuda or Challenger. Now they are about half the price. I see them creeping up and the E-bodies staying put for some time. Not necessarily scary, but not cars I recommend you run out and buy either.
So if all of these are frightening, where do I feel the safe money is in the muscle car market? As always, buy the best car you can. Just as you wouldn't buy a Ferrari with stories, don't buy a muscle car with them either. Because they are based on generic, mass production cars, it is even more important to fully document and verify any muscle car.
For example, you will never see a Ferrari 275 GTB/4 that started life as a puke green 4-cylinder with a vinyl top and a column shift automatic. But you can very well buy a Hemi Orange "Hemi 'Cuda" 4-speed that started life as a slant-six Barracuda if you are not extrememly careful. I see value in certain cars with low production figures and rare performance options.
LOOK FOR LOW PRODUCTION, RARE OPTIONS
For example, rather than a Hemi car, look at a Ram Air IV Pontiac. They are just as rare, if not more so, and were equal to the Hemi cars when new. Or how about any car built to homologate a race version, such as T/A Challengers, AAR 'Cudas, Pontiac Trans Ams, or a Z/28 Camaro? These are great cars to drive and still cheap compared to their bigger-engined brethren. Rare examples of early GTOs—the original muscle car—documented with a combination of Tri-Power or Ram Air engines and little-known options like metallic brakes or 4.33 gears, bring a small premium over the run-of-the-mill-examples, and are bound to have their day as people get more selective and look for rare factory muscle.
As a dealer immersed in the business on a daily basis, I closely monitor the market and listen to buyers and sellers both. We are in a unique time, realizing unprecedented appreciation of values and a shortage of good cars.
The number one piece of advice I can give anybody curious about where the market is going is to rest easy if you have great cars. The great ones are few and far between, and always in demand. The same cannot be said of not-so-great cars, as there are far more of them than buyers. Unless, of course, there is a bidder's bar in close proximity.
As the market adjusts, and it is doing so now, the cars that sneaked into the party will be thrown out by the bouncers, and the good cars will stay to have fun. There is not one market that isn't cyclical. The one constant is that quality endures, be it in stocks, real estate, or cars. Keep that in mind when planning your next purchase, or your next sale.
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More good stuff:

Collector-car writer ejected from show
Bob Golfen
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 19, 2007 12:00 AM

Veteran collector-car writer and publisher Keith Martin was stripped of his media credentials and escorted off the WestWorld grounds of the Barrett-Jackson Collector Car Auction this week after he made what auction officials called disparaging and damaging public statements about the event.

Wednesday's ejection of Martin, well-known as the former auction commentator for Speed Channel's live coverage of Barrett-Jackson, comes after a blowup with the auction regarding recent columns and coverage in his Oregon publication, Sports Car Market, which covers collector-car auctions in the United States and Europe.

The disagreement resulted in Martin being fired as commentator by Speed and Barrett-Jackson, which partner in the coverage, said auction President Steve Davis.

In the latest situation, Martin was "holding court" in the Scottsdale auction's media center before dozens of media people and auction goers, Davis said, telling them that Barrett-Jackson is rife with problems and irregularities and they should instead attend one of the competing auctions in Scottsdale and Phoenix.

"He was holding a seminar on why you should leave Barrett-Jackson," Davis said. "It came down to him advising people that you need to go to Russo and Steele and RM (Auction), and that Barrett-Jackson has, at best, just average cars."

Davis called Martin's behavior "journalistically unethical."

Martin, who was also covering the event for the New York Times, said he was unjustly targeted by Barrett-Jackson because of his prior columns, which focused on what he described as shady bidding tactics and what he calls the hyped-up values of the popular muscle cars that are fetching high prices at auction.

"My business is talking about the value of collector cars and not getting into (altercations) with an auction company," Martin said. "They had three goons come up to me who said I was making disparaging remarks about the auction and I had to leave."

Martin said he would purchase a regular admission ticket and cover the event as a spectator. Davis said he had no problem with Martin attending as a regular customer.
Supremely interesting. I know and like Keith, for whatever that's worth (his opinions are his as they say) and I've no idea how much he ragged on BJ's cars other than what I read here.

Maybe he wasn't being a "good guest" and that's a topic I can't comment on, however...

His NYT article about "overblown values" and "caveat emptor" on the muscle cars built in shops - not the factory - are dead on. One day, the red mist will dissipate and many an overly enthusiastic bidder will wake up and say, "YOU MEAN TO TELL ME I BOUGHT A $200,000 FAKE CAR?"

The answer will be, "YES YOU DID, DING DONG, AND YOU DID IT ON NATIONAL TV WITH A WHISKY SOUR SLOSHED ON YOU AND THE CLEAVAGE OF A GIRL WHO'S NUMBERS DIDN'T MATCH EITHER."

To me, this crap is the equivalent of a really talented painter doing a "paint by number" Mona Lisa and taking it to Sotheby's. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't call it "a continuation painting". Being thrown out would be the least of your troubles. Words like "fraud" might circulate.

Paying REAL money for a FAKE car priced like the REAL thing seems, well, you fill in the blank.

Thus, the "dotcom" of muscle cars will come crashing inwardly. I believe, and only my opinion, that Keith's remarks will be considered "insightful" in a few years. Maybe sooner.

I for one, missed him on Speed this year, and had wondered what was up. Now we know.

I'll need to rap on his head about Panteras in the near future. Hey no one faked one of those at BJ, now did they?
I agree with Dave that Keith Martin has a grudge for DeTomaso, but I think Keith speaks the truth about the recent levels of insanity at BJ and the whole muscle car market right now.

When people pay $40K for a really nice car (fakey-doo or not), I say why not, it has way more character than a Lexus and decorates the roads nicely—which I like. When people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a car that looks like something it isn’t, well, they deserve to be parted from their money. The BJ tactics to “entice” higher bids out of people, along with the (in some cases) ridiculous bid increments will ultimately keep savvy buyers away, leaving just the nouveau-riche—who will soon enough have empty pockets.

It WILL come to an end and soon—it’s the way it always goes. I just wish I could figure out what people will pay stupid money for next.
Keith M speaks his mind, which is neither good or bad, its just Keith. However he seems to select inappropriate times to share his opinions.

For instance, at the Concorso Italiano each year, he does the interviewing of the owners during the drive by, and he never misses a chance to point out the DeTomaso's bad points, which ruffles the owners, and all who love this marque. I think we all know these cars aren't perfect, especially as they came from the factory. An owner shouldn't need that rubbed in his face however, when, on possibly the biggest day in his life, he and his Pantera take the trip on the drive by at the Concorso. Its very rude, very unkind and unfeeling. He should be a gentleman and allow folks to enjoy their moment in the spotlight without their pride and joy being denigrated. That's Dave's complaint, and I whole heartedly agree.

This year at the Concorso, Keith M commented about Pantera reliablity, Matt Lipsky challenged Keith M & his opnions, told him on stage he was wrong, that Panteras can be reliable vehicles. He was a bit upset Keith had attacked the marque that way.

Reading that Keith was telling BJ attendees to go to other auctions, while he was a guest of BJ, is perhaps another example of Mr Martin's lack of judgement or manners.

The obligation of possessing truth is knowing how and when to proclaim it.

cowboy from hell
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whiplash:
Keith Martin can be counted on to slam DeTomaso cars each year when he serves as the announcer at the Concorso Italiano. I have seen him ask owners about their rust and electrical problems when he interviews them and my favorite was when he declared that DeTomaso was the biggest crook or genius there ever was, as he introduced Tom Tjaarda.



Sounds like an azzhole to me! Any person that would even slightly “embarrass” a car owner and/or slam a particular brand of vintage auto in a public arena during the “15 minutes of fame” is a jerk. I don’t care if you are driving the stupidest most low down retarded car that was ever built, that is unacceptable behavior for any man or woman in any business that claims to be a professional in his or her specific industry. Apparently Mr. Martin’s head has blown up just a little too much for his own good. That’s what happens when you stick both feet in your mouth…. Oops, did I say that out loud……...…Must be the Jack talking.....Pull the trigger Keith!
Last edited by shotgungrooms
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
Keith Martin can be counted on to slam DeTomaso cars each year when he serves as the announcer at the Concorso Italiano. ...my favorite was when he declared that DeTomaso was the biggest crook or genius there ever was, as he introduced Tom Tjaarda.


I'm curious to what Tjaarda's reaction was to such an introduction?
It seems that it has always been a situation where one person is unjustifiably influential.

In this hobby I don't understand why any manufacturer should besingled out negatively. What is good for Hemi-cudas in reality is good for all.

Detomasos really haven't even been players in the classic market. Panteras are still $100,000 plus cars that sell for $30,000.
If you really examine the marque they have every bit of mystery and magic to them that the most coveted, desireable, and valuable manufacturers ever had.

With all due respect, if a hemi-cuda is worth a million, what is a Mangusta worth using the same yardstick? I think more, much more.

Sometimes fate has a way of fixing injustices, perhaps this is one of those times?
Tom Tjaarda paid it no mind. Prior to 2004, when he was finally invited back to the factory for the European DeTomaso Owner's meeting, he may have thought DeTomaso was the former description. Even though Tom put on a happy face and spoke on behalf of the marque, he was treated very shabbily by the founder when he left his employ. There was litigation between Tom and Alejandro that left a bad taste in Tjaarda's mouth. He didn't let this harsh treatment spoil his positive remarks about the car and his interaction with Pantera owners, one bit.
Prior to the founder's death, the two men did reconcile briefly at the Canale Grande Hotel that DeTomaso owns in Modena. Tom told me that they both had moved on and this was confirmed when Mr. and Mrs. Tjaarda returned to the factory in Modena. Alejandro said, "what took you so long?"
One memorable moment of mine was when I photographed Mrs. DeTomaso with Mr. and Mrs. Tjaarda at the factory in 2004.
Linda and I think Tjaarda is one of the greatest living Italian (Michigander) automobile designers. He has worked with and for, all the greats, Ferrari, Mercedes, Bugatti, Giugiaro, Dallara and more. If you consider the source, where would Mr. Keith Martin rank among these icons? As Pantera owners, we are very fortunate to have Tom Tjaarda in our column!
I subscribe to Martin's magazine and I enjoy it and look forward to receiving it. When I help stage the Pantera display at the Concorso, I warn owners not to fall for Martin's leading questions that suggest the dark side of the Pantera. He isn't the first and won't be the last to draw attention to the weaknesses of the "Man" and the machine. We think that his "tune-up" at the BJ Auction may help to minimize his cockiness. He underestimates just how passionate Pantera owners are and how proud we are of our cars. DA
Dave,

Well said ..

But this info should tell us exactly wat type of person he really is

QUOTE " "holding court" in the Scottsdale auction's media center before dozens of media people and auction goers .. telling them that Barrett-Jackson is rife with problems and irregularities and they should instead attend one of the competing auctions in Scottsdale and Phoenix.

"He was holding a seminar on why you should leave Barrett-Jackson," It came down to him advising people that you need to go to Russo and Steele and RM (Auction), and that Barrett-Jackson has, at best, just average cars." END OF QUOTE

He may get increased popularity or it may blow up in his face ... either way this is a person with a poor character and slamming a Marque is a no no and WILL come back to bit the piece of S%$& in the A## some day .. it always does.

My Opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
Tom Tjaarda paid it no mind.


I guess I have should have realized Tjaarda was too classy to cause a stink. Still, Martin sounds like a jerk to me.

quote:
There was litigation between Tom and Alejandro that left a bad taste in Tjaarda's mouth.


I guess I didn't realize that. What was the dispute over?

quote:
Tom told me that they both had moved on and this was confirmed when Mr. and Mrs. Tjaarda returned to the factory in Modena. Alejandro said, "what took you so long?"


Sure sounds like DeTomaso! Almost like when he used to fire Tjaarda all the time, and then call him the next day asking him why he wasn't at work. A quick, short-lived temper it appears.

quote:
One memorable moment of mine was when I photographed Mrs. DeTomaso with Mr. and Mrs. Tjaarda at the factory in 2004.


I know it was probably printed in PI, but post it here! Great photo.
I, for one, am thankful that the cost of our vehicles hasn't yet gone totally thru the roof. I still hope to add a Mangusta to the stable one of these days!
As far as the muscle car market? I'm still amazed when I see a mid 60's torsion bar suspension Mopar go for 6 figures. They handled terrible, the interiors were loaded with cheap plastic & they were terribly prone to rust. That said, they were a blast to drive, unfortunately, most of the people who are buying these things will never experience the joy of ripping thru the gears on these beasts.
Remember just a few years ago when the Jag E-type market went crazy? You'd be hard pressed to find a decent one for less than 6 figures. The market peaked & then came back down to a reasonable level, I suspect that many of these cars we're seeing auctioned for $100K+ will be back down to reality within a few more years.
I had a similar thing happen to me at an orphan car show in Yipsilanti, MI. When I drove up to the stage to collect my trophy, the announcer said something like: Although the Pantera was a beautiful and sriking design, it was plauged with many problems. If it wasn't overheating, it was stalling or worse rusting to pieces.......

I was kind of shocked, so, in the middle of his speech, I just cranked it over, reved it up to around 1500rpm and let the Mind Train exhuast note express my thoughts. He looked a little perturbed as he notioned to someone to wave me off the stage.

That was soooooo fun!!!

Ian
Man, it is a good thing I only do charity type car shows. If some judge ever started bad mouthing my car right in front of me like that, I am afraid I would have to show him how to be more respectful of all my hard work. When I was done with him he wouldn't be saying bad things no more. Of course he wouldn't be saying anything no more, so I guess it would solve the problem either way. Mad
I believe that the one thing that Mr Martin has failed to understand and perhaps because no one has told him, is the fact that the Pantera was sold to be driven. Take the other cars he raves about. How many Ferraris, Bugattis, Maserattis, Astin Martins, etc have you seen driving on an Illinois road in January in 6 inches of salted snow. Look at the mileage of a Pantera. Having 35K miles is a low mileage Pantera. A Ferrari has had its engine rebuilt by 35K. Just how many 150K miles exotics do you see that have never had a rust or electrical or other problem. Wonder if Mr Martin realizes that Ferrari didnt want to build street cars and only did to finance racing. Perhaps someone should tell him that in on the show Miami Vice, they had to dress up a Pantera in Ferrari body panels because the Testerossa could not handle the stunts that were required for the show. I say that next time he cuts down a Pantera on the drive by, the Pantera owner should just rev it up and dump the clutch and spray grass and dirt all over Mr Martin.
quote:
Originally posted by deeb:
Miami Vice used a Pantera with Ferrari panels? I'm blown away. Thanks for that little piece of info. Does anyone have pictures of that?


I have not heard that before but I have heard that the black "Ferrari" convertible was actually a Corvette with Ferrari body panels on it. I saw one of these cars last fall and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference from a disatnce, but the interior was all Corvette. Per the owner there were 10 or so of these made for the show. The people building them for the show sold some privatley and then Ferrari stepped in and shut them down.
quote:
Originally posted by lmguy:
quote:
Originally posted by deeb:
Miami Vice used a Pantera with Ferrari panels? I'm blown away. Thanks for that little piece of info. Does anyone have pictures of that?


I have not heard that before but I have heard that the black "Ferrari" convertible was actually a Corvette with Ferrari body panels on it.

You can read more about the Miami Vice Pantera (Ferrari) on my website:
http://www.banzairunnerpantera.com/movie_miamivice.htm
The black convertible Daytona used in the early episodes was a McBurnie fiberglass conversion on a Corvette chassis. These things show up in Hemmings all the time. There was a white Testerossa used in the last episodes. This is the one Mr. Crazy Dave is referring to. I had heard that it was not a real Testerossa, but never knew how it was constructed.
Interesting.
Mooso
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