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Power Assisted Steering

G Guest
Is anyone aware of a Power Assisted Steering kit for the Pantera? Pretty sure there's no room for a power steering pump on the fan belts, but Williams-BMW Formula-1 was the only Team running a Power Assisted Steering feature on their F-1 cars a few years ago. The Technical Commentator was explaining that it was not the usual set-up with a power steering pump due to weight concerns but was an electric assist device. An electric assist device could operate in several different manners: forcing hydraulic fluid through a rack and pinon, or direct assist to the rack and pinon.

I'm not the mechanical genius, but there may be other ways to 'beat the patent'. Another theory of operation may be: if power brakes can be assisted with vacuum, a la Pantera, then maybe the steering can to. I'm gonna talk to the guys who really know cars. I think there's a market, and I think it's not gonna be that technologically difficult to achieve. I think I can get patent protection or find an expired patent to use and deliver a product if every one else is just following everyone else and everyone of them is just not bringing out the new products. A $10,000 budget can deliver a prototype and thus orders to take to the bank for start up capital.

I want to have a Pantera that is Upgraded to Beyond 2003 and may consider investigating how to do this myself with some other folks who are very mechanically astute. Many folks who drive these vehicles (Lamborghinis, Maseratis, and Ferraris have big bucks to spend, and the technology would be cross adaptable, if someone's not beat me and the guys with the experience and machine shops to the punch).

Anyone know if the current Ferrari's got power assisted steering technology? What's it based on? Does Williams F-1 have Patents on this? Of course. I'll take the concept and search the Patent and see if a product is viable w/o Patent infringement. The rich guys always pull into parking lots at slow speeds to go to dinner, and that can be a problem with those wide front tires!

THAT's how Real Money is Made! Anyone in the know on the Board here? The OEMs are gonna be MY TARGET TARGET CUSTOMERS (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc., but the Start-Up Capital is gonna come from offering this product to the Pantera Folks, etc. with bolt-on kits.)

[This message has been edited by ron norman (edited 06-28-2003).]
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bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
FYI, Hall and Wilkinson both have built a few Panteras with power steering and at least Hall says that they all felt over-boosted when he tried them out, possibly due to mis-matched components. Remember the mid-'70s GM cars? Totally dead-feeling. All Ford modular-engine swaps have the capability of power steering since the engines are shorter than a 351-C and come with the serpentine-belt-driven pump built into the block, which has to be removed if you're not going to use it as the pump cannot be run dry. The only problem with adding PS to a std Pantera is driving the hydraulic pump (and choosing the proper components, of course).The '92-95 MR2-Turbos had variable-ratio power steering that uses an electric motor to drive a hydraulic pump; the entire assembly is in the front trunk the motor looks like a starter! This arrangement is quite popular with off-road racers etc. I suspect there's not much market for the conversion unless the computer-controlled variable ratio can be adapted, and IMHO even then its only needed in parking lots & down-town driving- a horrible fate for any open-road car like a Pantera.
PH Pat Holleran (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by jack deryke:
FYI, Hall and Wilkinson both have built a few Panteras with power steering and at least Hall says that they all felt over-boosted when he tried them out, possibly due to mis-matched components. Remember the mid-'70s GM cars? Totally dead-feeling. All Ford modular-engine swaps have the capability of power steering since the engines are shorter than a 351-C and come with the serpentine-belt-driven pump built into the block, which has to be removed if you're not going to use it as the pump cannot be run dry. The only problem with adding PS to a std Pantera is driving the hydraulic pump (and choosing the proper components, of course).The '92-95 MR2-Turbos had variable-ratio power steering that uses an electric motor to drive a hydraulic pump; the entire assembly is in the front trunk the motor looks like a starter! This arrangement is quite popular with off-road racers etc. I suspect there's not much market for the conversion unless the computer-controlled variable ratio can be adapted, and IMHO even then its only needed in parking lots & down-town driving- a horrible fate for any open-road car like a Pantera.


A horrible fate indeed, but one that does occur unfortunately. Any slackers out there?
RN ron norman (Guest)
Thank you for your response. The drag strip guys use a small electric motor to power their alternators, letting maximum engine power go to the rear wheels. Another advantage of a power assisted steering system would be to dampen the 'bump steer' Panteras have. I'd like to have just enough power assist to get through some tight spots when needed. If Gary Hall and Steve Wilkerson have tried these things, then I respect their innovativeness and creative tinkering. The small steering wheel and large tires can make these cars feel like a '62 Ford pick up truck in a parking lot. Of course too much power assist would decrease the 'feel of the road'.

I'm gonna be looking for the smallest, lightest power steering pump I can find and experiment using the drag racer's electric motor. I think the force of the hydraulics can be adjusted for optimum characteristics with different sizes of pulleys. The Off-Road racing crowd probably has too much hydraulic force for my taste.
marlinjackmarlinjackThe Machinist #5723 AMARGOSA MACHINE 'Running on Empty- Middle of Nowhere'
I would start with the 12 Volts electric to Hydraulic pump that the "Low Riders" use for their hydraulics. I believe your going to need pressures in the vicinity of 1800 PSI, to operate your power rack.(This sounds excessive. If anybody knows the pressure, please correct). I personally like the "Direct" feel of the manual steering. Marlin.

[This message has been edited by MARLIN JACK (edited 06-29-2003).]
RN ron norman (Guest)
Thanks Marlin, Jack, Gary & Steve. The fact that it's been tried tells me a few people want to crank on their steering wheels with a little less effort at times. This is going on page 9 of my List Of Projects. I have only filled out 3 and 1/2 pages of projects so far, so it's not so high a prioity. But I am VERY IMPRESSED that you guys delivered such innovative responses that are realitic and affordable. Maybe it's not a huge money maker... But I just had a new Pack & Pinon installed and wondered, why not a power assisted unit. It would have to be from a small newer car, maybe even a new Volkswagon Beetle. I wonder if the Low Riders' unit can be flow restricted to deliver just enough hydraulic force to assist spinning the steering wheel while not interfering with the 'feel of the road' while driving. Sort of a regulator or flow restriction device. It would be another way to help with bump steer, which can be alarming at first, although modified front A-Arms with at least 3.5 degrees Caster would be the correct way to fix the bump steer. Love this car's technology, and love adding the features that make a car that was 30 years ahead of it's time truly up to speed with today's technology. Brake pad material, disks, rotors. Tires, wheels. 6 speed ZF. Headlights. And on and on. The car can conceivable be upgraded forever. And I think the enthusiasts, technology folks, innovators and vendors will see to that, with their own vision and passion for this thorougbred Italian icon. The Ford GT-40 will only rekindle folks' passion for the Pantera, IMHO. Thanks for your innovative responses, we'll see what will be available next. With fond enthusiasm!
jon3613jon3613Member
I am considering this modification too, but my approach would be a modified an electric power steering system which are presently surfacing on American cars. I am a designer of brushless motor controllers and I have been monitoring the electronics sector of the electric system. It has the benefits of no pump or hoses and is lighter than the hydraulic system. Whether or not I tackle this project is still undecided.
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
FWIW, GT-5, 5-S and wide-wheel fans may be able to use such a conversion. Bump-steer on a std Pantera was addressed by the Factory in mid- '74 when they added rack spacers to lower the rack & thus allow steering rod to be more horizontal. Nowadays, anyone that wants to minimize bump-steering should first remove the spring spacers (if they;re installed), adjust their aftermarket shock spring perches to the desired level (if they're installed), then profile their suspension travel and add such a rack spacer in a custom thickness for that particular car. It's easy to overshoot on bump-steering adjustments and make the situation worse than stock.
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