PSA:HUGE California traffic tickets fines for 2011...

Absolutely amazing! I can see fines for valid infractions of the law especially when it has to do with public safety, but... in these times of financial need I think those numbers are quite excessive especially when you consider the added cost of the increased insurance and defence cost.

I noticed in my area the same problem, but to compound the aggressiveness, where there is a camera installed for red light infractions, the timing is also changed for the yellow light, shortining the time to red!

Our peace officers (traffic) no longer 'serve and protect' they just hand out invoices or bills as I call them. They have written so many there is almost a year backlog to get to court. I got a seat belt ticket I am challenging March 3, 2010 and am still waiting for a court date! I call every 30 days to check status. Personally, I think they lost the ticket.

Are you f@cking kidding me???????? Outrageous fine amounts. There is no way I would stand for that. People are going to revolt and that is when the trouble is really going to start. Outrageous!!

Don't violate them and you have nothing to worry about......

Moot point.

The fines are outrageous..........$148 for failing to use a hands free (and endangering your life and everyone else around you) or $436 for failing to use a child safety seat (and endangering thier innocent life) Absolutely outrageous. You should go to jail!!!!!

Please.

I don't know how those amounts compare to Nevada, but I did see one that could get me in trouble - the headphone law. I wonder if we have that here?

I use my headphones when I drive the Pantera because I can't really enjoy music or hear my phone ring without them. I keep them at a low volume so I can still hear horns, etc.

This is what happens when tax rates are so low that they do not cover the operational expenses of states, municipalities etc.

In case it has escaped notice, the financial situation of most governments is beyond dire. Since nobody seems to think they should pay taxes (except maybe me and Larry F ) the same governments need to develop new and creative ways to raise revenues. Get used to it because there will be a LOT more coming.

It's hard for the general public (some present company excepted) to argue about any safety-based fines and so that's the new low-hanging fruit of tax collecting. Increased user-fees, toll roads (selling the roads we taxpayers paid for to private companies so they can milk us in perpetuity and remit back a small percentage to the state), carbon emissions taxes (perfect way to target us "rich" sports-car guys) are all in our future. Good times (are well behind us now)!

Mark (sitting in for Larry)

Those fines look to be about the same as they are here in Tennessee. They do not appear to be excesive. In fact I agree that our taxes are way too low. Especialy gasoline tax. We should pay at least an equal amount as the cost of the fuel. The real reason our state and federal governments are going broke is because big business and rich people do not feel they should have to pay anything for all the wellfare they get. Their attitude, let the little guy pay it for me. If you do not like the taxes, move to Mexico. I am sure they would welcome you with open arms and your taxes would be much lower. Hell you would probably have a higher standard of living there. Go on you rich bastards, don't like the USA?? Then move away and give it back to us middle class folk you stole it from. I am sick of rich people being on welfare complaining about how bad they have it. You will find no sympathy from me. And don't be expecting my kids and grandkids to die for your investment intersts in some forign land you bungholes. I would rather they fall taking back their country from your inbreed asses.
Don't get me started, it is kind of a sore spot with me.

Amen to the last two.

The real reason federal, state, and local governments are going broke is not from "greedy" corporations unwilling to pay taxes but from reckless runaway spending and unsustainable public pension funding (public unions). Corporate taxes in the U.S. are the second highest in the industrialized world and tax revenues almost never decline, government spending just keeps increasing more than corresponding population growth. So, if you want to preach class warfare, at least have some of the facts straight. Anytime you'd like to debate where the vast majority of taxes are collected from I'll be happy to engage you. I don't own a "greedy" corporation and I'm not a "rich bastard," but this kind of rhetoric is
"kind of a sore spot" for me.

God I love this country!

Where else can one freely express their opinion without fear of oppression? One great thing about human kind is that we all think differently, how mundane and boring would this world be if we all thought and felt the same? There would be no greats like DaVinci, Mozart, Einstein, etc. Of course the flip side to that, we would have no war or starvation I guess.

For every problem there can be many opinions on solutions. One other observation, it is said that the general public, or masses, are easily led by a few because of human nature. The average person has to concentrate on their own lifes needs first before anything else.

As for taxes being too low, thats the first I have heard that statement, took me a bit to recover from it. My opinion only about property and fuel tax in MY area. Since 2008 my home has lost over 100k of value per year and my property tax has increased by an average of 1,000 per year in the same period. One more year and I will be upside down on a home I built as a contractor at cost almost 15 years ago. If the taxes would have stayed the same as a percentage of value, I would have been ok with that, but our local and state govt have to pay for the projects and massive fancy buildings that were built in the good times, plus all of the free expenses for our illegal alien problem. GOVT is too large and growing. Fuel, I was a fuel dealer a while ago, trust me taxes are high enough there, the free market and no price gouging controls are in place to make fuel affordable. Diesel should be 1/2 the cost of regular, not the same as premium. As fuel expense goes up so does the cost of everything this country needs to survive and grow. The housing and financial markets are not the only bad boys on the street, look at the trend logs of those 3 industries leading up to our current recession (I am not mentioning the obvious war costs which put us over the brink).

I need to get to work. I LOVE this world and you guys!

Angelo

Corporate taxes in the U.S. are the second highest in the industrialized world and tax revenues almost never decline, government spending just keeps increasing more than corresponding population growth.

True, however the rate has nothing to do with actual taxes paid. Most of the fortune 500 here write off so many contorted deductions they wind up paying nothing. They offshore money to avoid taxes and offshore jobs because our insane tax code rewards them for doing so. Meanwhile smal business, who cannot afford an army of CPAs and Tax lawyers, get straped with an ever increasing tax loads because large business is dodging their share.
Are you in the 15% bracket? Probably not, probably pay in at a higher rate. But the richest investors ARE in the 15% bracket. They may be multi-billionaires, but they are still only exposed to a 15% rate even before write downs. Yes rich people pay more in taxes, but not nearly what they used to. Did you know that during AMericas "Golden Years" the 1950s, the top tax Bracket was over 90%? Didn't seem to hurt us too much then did it? Study the tax code over the years and you will find that during Americas MOST proserous years, we also had the highest taxes on the rich. During down turns and collapses the rich paid little of their share. Coincidence? I think not. Investors create jobs? Yes in China and India. Our tax code demands foriegn, not domestic investment.

I agree with many of your points DeTom.
But tell me a better place to live on this planet. Remember i agree with many of your thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by IndyDave:
I agree with many of your points DeTom.
But tell me a better place to live on this planet. Remember i agree with many of your thoughts.

I love this country too Dave. At least I love it the way it used to be. This country used to be number one when it came to health care, education,size of middle class, production, leadership and on and on. In a lot of catagories we are starting to turn up at the bottom of industrialized nations now. To me that is saying something has gone wrong. I do not want to live somewhere else, but if it stays on course, maybe my grankids will HAVE to move somewhere else just to get a job. Mark my words, they will soon start teaching Chineese in grade school because that will be where the jobs are. How can WE be a nation when all we seem to have is a vast collection of individuals all out for themselves and screw the "other" guy? Abe said it best, a nation devided against itself can not stand. At that time he was talking about only two factions. How many factions do we have today? The America I grew up in, the one I was willing to give my life to because of what she stood for, is no more. What is left does not even resemble the nation, the superpower, that showed the world what freedom and responsibility meant. What other country in history restored nations conqured in war and put aside past animosities to become partners in world peace?Yet that is exactly what we did with the Marshal plan after WWII. Look at Germany and Japan today. We did that, we reached out to a defeted enemy and help them lift themselves from the ashes.
Dave, there is not one single person who posts here that is one of the evil people I am railing against. Unless of course Gordan Geeko is a secret Pantera owner . Even the people defended the people I am taking to task are good people. I called this economic collapse a decade ago. I knew it would happen as a direct result of things I saw happen. I mean we all knew it would happen. We threw open our borders. We bashed the unions and shopped made in China at Walmart. What did we think would happen after the middle class was gone? What other outcome could be but a return to feudalism? Want to see feudalism? Just drive down to Mexico, but go beyond the northern border towns, take a deep breath and smell that poverty desease and desperation. That will be us in ten years. Ten years, remember you heard it here first.

Our taxes aren't high enough? I have never read that anywhere before.

In times of decreased revenue, we need to change our spending habits. I have moved into office space one-third the size...and not as nice, laid off half my employees, cut health insurance benefits, cut my pay down to just enough to pay my mortgage, found ways to pay less for phone, internet and power, passed on my usual upgrades on computers and software, you name it and I have done it. I run a tiny design business, so these numbers will not be impressive, but I think the results are: I have cut expenses in the past few years from $350,000 a year to $90,000 a year. And it frickin' SUCKS, but we have stayed in business and lowered our rates to help some of our clients who have been with us for years and are having difficulties of their own.

I expect my government to adjust to their income as well. My income is down. My laid off employees have not found new work. My vendors and clients are all suffering as well. I know that results in a lot less taxes being generated. They can't just say "Eff you, you need to pay more." There is no more. But they take it anyway. My vehicle registration fees have tripled. My property taxes have gone up despite my home losing nearly half its value. All my business licenses and fees have gone up. Sales tax has gone up.

Jerry Brown (California) recently said that he doesn't understand why 40% of all state employees have been given taxpayer-funded cell phones. So he is cutting off 48,000 state employee cell phones. That is half of the 96,000 phones that state employees have. That alone saves $20 million dollars a year. State employees are bitching of course. I had read that the California budget had been cut to the bone...but they are still giving out free cell phones? Next he is looking at vehicles that they own or lease but are unneeded. You know who is going to be really pissed? The state employees that have been making a ton of money on the side arranging cellphone and automotive lease deals.

Final note: If I am going to pay the high tax rates of Europe, then I am going to move to Paris and take all that awesome vacation time and such. I am not going to give all my money to the government so they can give it to everyone but me. I am scraping buy, doing my part to keep my family and country moving, and my unemployed ex-employees are doing better than me collecting unemployment and doing freelance design work for cash on the side. I am getting tired of it.

We've overlooked a lot of government waste when the times were good, but now that we are all tightening up, we expect our government to do the same as mentioned earlier. Except in many cases our government doesn't want to lose their toys. They can afford to go bone dry because they aren't even close. I was just reading an article about how they found Washington State workers collecting pensions, and then going back to work for another state agency or institution, collecting a check there and double dipping! UNBELIEVABLE! They wonder why the rest of us in the private sector are DISGUSTED with our government.

California has been drug down by illegals abusing public services for decades. Think about all the lost income and property tax due to illegal families having 5+ in many dwellings. Most of illegals don't even understand english, it would be a laugh for them to fill out a census pamphlet so that the feds could even begin to calculate how much lost state revenue there was. This has gone unchecked for decades, and now generations. I hear people scoff at the actual impact illegals have, and the reality is the jokes on you. I was born and raised there for 23 years, saw first hand in the public schools, programs for ESL (English as a Second Language) long lines at the DMV full of migrant workers, HMO Clinics even packed with migrant families. Often times I went at 11:00pm to the 24 hour clinic to see the doctor after work to get prescriptions so I wouldn't have to wait in line, and I had insurance through my work! What a joke. I can't even imagine a government run healthcare system, might as well go to downtown LA to the free clinics. Then you'll get to come home with a new disease. Good luck with that. Unless you live in a bordering state with mexico or a big agricultural state, you have no clue what is happening. Our planet is already struggling with population growth, let alone our country. Mexico's quality of life isn't getting any better, especially with the drug trade still alive and well. People are flooding into this country illegally.

quote:

But the richest investors ARE in the 15% bracket. They may be multi-billionaires, but they are still only exposed to a 15% rate even before write

Really? They claim that little income?
Will

The Public Workers are all over paid and benefit packages are killing us. They make more then private sector employees.

I live in the third highest taxed area in the country. My damn garbage cans are thrown all over the driveway in the am, the damn police are always sitting in the coffee shop, the Highway dept guys are in the bagel store 10 times a day, the Utility Co., Verizon, and water Co workers are always parked behind the Walmart sleeping.

What the F&%$ is going on ? Do they think we are blind ... I'm getting damn tired of everyone sucking the system dry. The good damn Illegals are getting smarter and milking the system also. I say wait soon there will be no system then they all need to suck wind.

Ron

The group responsible for this mess are those that have been taking advantage-rich, poor, or in the middle is irrelevant. Those people who think that other people "owe" them something and they are going to get what's due......they are the problem.

The manufacturing company I work for is moving base of operations out of California in 2011. 236 middle class people will lose thier jobs come March. Sucks. However California had the opportunity to keep us by offering incentives-tax breaks being one of them. City gov't chose not to. As a corporation we have to make decisions that are best, meaning profitable, for everyone. Otherwise we go out of business and everyone loses. The state we are moving to practically paid to have our new plant built. In turn they will reap the taxes (land, building, manufacturing, transportation, waste disposal, and payroll). That was a smart business decision on BOTH sides. I know the almost 1800 people still employed are glad that we will continue to be a leading manufacturer in our industry. I'm sure the 236 don't think it was so great. We are still in business and California loses more tax base and revenue. Typical gov't decision-myopic, short sighted, and antiquated.

My aunt retired early from LA County as a supervisor in the A/P department. As part of her retirement package she gets over $90k a year. To do nothing. Why? As a glorified "bill payer" (her words) why was she getting anywhere near this in the first place?

For seven of those salaries over the next ten years California could have kept us. Did we do that to the middle class?

Every aspect of government needs to reduced. Period.

AMEN!

quote:

Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:

quote:

But the richest investors ARE in the 15% bracket. They may be multi-billionaires, but they are still only exposed to a 15% rate even before write

Really? They claim that little income?
Will

Yes because their income is taxed entirely as capitol gains and not as income. Neet trick for hedge fund managers who make billions per year. They get lower tax rate than a minimum wage worker. But then again, minimum wage worker doesn't contribute to Senators and reprasantatives campain funds, so naturaly that makes hedge fund managers deserving of the lower tax rate. Right?

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

The state we are moving to practically paid to have our new plant built. In turn they will reap the taxes (land, building, manufacturing, transportation, waste disposal, and payroll). That was a smart business decision on BOTH sides.

No it wasn't. They could have got and even better deal in Mexico and better still in China. They could have laid off everybody except the executive officers. They could have re-encorporated in the Caymen Islands and made a ton more money. In a race to the bottom, he who moves the fastest gets there first. You guys keep making ascertions that their is some kind of differance between Government and big business. The government is just another asset that the multi-national corporations OWN outright. It is an extension of their boardroom. That is why Robert is having his back broken by taxes costs and reduced demand. He is one of us, not them. You guys aren't seeing that the most efficient business model is the road to ruination. Face it, the lowest paid worker is a slave. Lower still is a machine paid for ten years ago that still produces as well as when new. But it is self destructive because without people able to buy, it doesn't matter how cheaply it was made. Machines and slaves buy nothing. Sometime you have to steep back and realize that capatalism is supposed to serve US. Not us serving it. This is a democratic republic. That is what our government is supposed to be. Capatalism is just an economic system. It served us well for hundreds of years, but now it is destroying us.
Oh well, it is a little bit too late now to be crying over it now as we have lost our supremacy. Maybe China or India will come up with a better system and take pity on the USA and send aide. That may be our only hope to keep our children from the clutches of starvation. Dewight Esinhower tryied to warn us, but I guess we just didn't understand the implications.

DeTom, the difference between government and big business is the value of motivation. Unfortunately sometimes it can be for greed, and greed for the wrong things, but many times the byproduct is innovation. Yet there is no motivation for personal growth in government or in unionized jobs. You just wait your turn for someone to retire or just continue to exist in order to move up the ladder. When a work growth environment is seniority based and not merit based, innovation and creativity are stifled, and at some point, one is just existing to do a job. Motivation to improve the job or make it more efficient is lost. You just live to push a button or assemble a gadget. Change is suppressed because the environment doesn't promote it.

I work in the private sector, and each day I get up I work to make my job easier, to automate everything I can. Technically you could say I'm putting myself out of a job, but there are a lot of challenges unsolved around the world, and maybe I should educate myself to work on those problems as well instead of worrying about whether or not my job of pushing a button is secure. At some point we start worrying about sustaining all our stuff or our families livelihood, so these jobs become acceptable.

Capitalism is not perfect, not by a long shot, but it does provide competition which is what breeds innovation. I just don't see how communism or socialism even remotely provide an initiative for creativity as an economic engine. You have a couple people dictating where resources should be spent regardless of their expertise in different fields, or lack thereof. Capitalism at least provides turnover of leaders so that the best innovators in their fields are given opportunities to lead. Self improvement isn't a trait everyone possesses or wants, hence why there are multiple theories on what is best for the future of our species.

I think of government like an engine assembler vs a private business which is an engine builder. An engine builder looks to improve the design to keep above their competition, while an engine assembler, just keeps building the same thing, relying on the engine builders to make their process more efficient. The assembler exists simply to produce things for the masses. Our Government relies on private industry for a lot of its needs, and likewise government funding to the private sector funded by taxes has helped drive our economy. Our government has buying power, but it does not have the expertise, nor the track record to take over whole industries with the idea it can automatically improve them for the better. Our government's design is to be responsible for building infrastructure in order to promote growth around it, not control every aspect of growth it helps to create. Government would be too big and wouldn't be able to keep up with the expansion, slowing down the whole creative process. The reason the internet has grown to what it has become is because for the most part the government has not been overreaching in its control. Can you imagine if they had to hire people to monitor every website ever created and make sure it met certain guidelines set by our government in order for the websites to operate? Don't laugh it could have happened. The private sector has been pushed for innovation to meet the demands of this still growing technology and industry. The concept of the internet could have easily been squashed by our government in a heartbeat. Look at China and the middle east where there is total government control and censorship of the internet. There is a huge class gap in those countries for a reason, its control of information and rhetoric for power.

Hustler, I agree communism sucks. But certainly there has to be something between socialism and capatalism that can work. People should not have to face death just because they can not keep up on an assembly line. People will not inovate under a system like that either. We had it pretty good back in the 50s and 60s. It was called Capatlism too but what we have today is NOT a free market at all.

Much of the capitalism that has failed has failed because of government involvement from corruption to laws which don't address the real problems but cause more problems.

When you mix the discussion of corporate tax rates with the jealousy over what CEO's make you muddy their argument. There are too many issues to paint with a broad stroke.

I spoke with a lady who lost some property to a corporation contaminating her land (before she bought it). She therefore advocated a lot more government to control the corporations.

Truth is, they got around existing laws and were allowed to break laws through government involvement, government ties and corruption. A BIGGER government does not solve that but makes that worse. How many times do you see a dozen new laws created because someone was not prosecuted for an existing law. Many of these laws being unrelated but ridding on the shirt tails for passage. Often those complaining of the failures of capitalism are the ones who sabotaged it with laws and corruption which prevented capitalism.

In our area, when the mandatory seat belt law went through, they could not pass it. People were up in arms. You cannot force us to do this. They came back with a law that said, well, we cannot pull you over for it, we can not fine you for it, but it is still a law. While people were yelling it was a rouse, enough people say "well, that doesn't sound so bad". They passed it, a year latter removed the restrictions and began pulling people over and fining them for it. THAT is not government for the people and by the people!

Specifically CEO pay, I am never jealous of what some one else works for and has obtained but it seems to be the rally cry of Unions, liberals, etc. While I believe there are some issues with high CEO pay, people are not yelling to fix the CEO pay, they just want their share; until the company can no longer operate in this country.

This is the problem I see with CEO pay; it does not operate on a capitalistic platform! If you own a company and you hire a CEO as well as other management members, you know what you pay them right?

How many stocks, private or from investment do you own? You the owner of say potentially 100 to several thousand companies and you do not know what your CEO's or management make and you have virtually no control over it.

My solution is to require companies to have ratings based on actual CEO and upper management pay and compensation, rating compensation for industry and size. Make these reports required to the owners; for large mutual funds maybe averages.

Think about it. You go to you investor and he breaks down all these fancy graphs for stocks in tech industry, service industry, etc. Now you say let's ONLY look at investments in the 40-60% range for CEO pay because bellow 40 these guys are not good managers and above 60 these guys are milking the company.

Do you think Franklin Rains could skim $91 million of Fannie Mae in 3 years like he did in this environment? When retirement funds chose no stocks in the upper 20% how fast do you think the CEO pay would be restructured nation wide?

I think Capitalism is exactly what we need in CEO pay. Then you can truly say their pay is fair.

quote:

Maybe China or India will come up with a better system and take pity on the USA and send aide.

Based on the growing number of Chinese workers jumping from their factory roofs (into hastily installed safety nets); the incredible growth of US provided Skype therapy for Asian workers; and the reactionary "we're not gonna take it anymore" protests among their working class, China and India are already experiencing the same things in just a few short years that took us a few generations. All we have to concentrate on is quality education and inspiration for the next generation of entrepreneurs who will invent the next big idea. That is what we do so well. Maybe one of those ideas will include fast cheap manufacturing. Right here. And just in time.

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
Much of the capitalism that has failed has failed because of government involvement from corruption to laws which don't address the real problems but cause more problems.

Partly true, but I think that simple greed has had a major impact as well.

quote:

In our area, when the mandatory seat belt law went through, they could not pass it. People were up in arms. You cannot force us to do this. They came back with a law that said, well, we cannot pull you over for it, we can not fine you for it, but it is still a law. While people were yelling it was a rouse, enough people say "well, that doesn't sound so bad". They passed it, a year latter removed the restrictions and began pulling people over and fining them for it. THAT is not government for the people and by the people!

In my utopian autocracy I would allow anyone to drive without a seat belt but would withhold state-funded health care from anyone who fails to take reasonable precautions to protect their own lives. Failing to wear a seatbelt is an unnecessary risk. And please don't try to tell me how much safer it is to not have one on when you drive into a lake, or how uncomfortable it is. Ask how comfortable the contract state worker making $15.50/hr feels scraping your guts off the roadway after you die being thrown from your car crash.

quote:

Specifically CEO pay, I am never jealous of what some one else works for and has obtained but it seems to be the rally cry of Unions, liberals, etc. While I believe there are some issues with high CEO pay, people are not yelling to fix the CEO pay, they just want their share; until the company can no longer operate in this country.
...
My solution is to require companies to have ratings based on actual CEO and upper management pay and compensation, rating compensation for industry and size. Make these reports required to the owners; for large mutual funds maybe averages.
...
I think Capitalism is exactly what we need in CEO pay. Then you can truly say their pay is fair.

Interesting proposal but who will create the rating system and DO the ratings?

My take on CEO pay (as a CEO of two small private companies) is that for a privately-held company you should be able to pay a CEO whatever the owner of the business decides is fair. If the workers feel they are being taken advantage of then they will leave for competing enterprise. Fair market.

BUT, for PUBLICLY-OWNED companies, paying a CEO tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars plus perks while the employees take it on the ear is just wrong. Public companies have largely forgotten who actually owns the company. I don't see why any senior executive should be paid more than 25 (OK, maybe 50X in highly profitable circumstances) times the wage of an average worker in any given company. Before the 80's, the ratio of CEO salary to that of an average employee was something like 25X. Varying data sources put the peak in the last 10 years at anywhere from 300X to 500X average workers salary. Given that over the same period of time, average corporate dividends have steadily declined (from under 7% to under 2% currently) the only people being served are, as Tom puts it, the filthy rich CEOs.

I am all for rewarding brilliance, initiative and risk, but there is a point where things get out of hand and change is needed. That time was about 20 years ago. Since corporate leaders have (in some cases) shown that they can't avoid over-eating at the trough, maybe it is time for some government (which in theory was supposed to act in, and represent the interests of, the people) intervention.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Charlton:

quote:

In our area, when the mandatory seat belt law went through, they could not pass it. People were up in arms. You cannot force us to do this. They came back with a law that said, well, we cannot pull you over for it, we can not fine you for it, but it is still a law. While people were yelling it was a rouse, enough people say "well, that doesn't sound so bad". They passed it, a year latter removed the restrictions and began pulling people over and fining them for it. THAT is not government for the people and by the people!

In my utopian autocracy I would allow anyone to drive without a seat belt but would withhold state-funded health care from anyone who fails to take reasonable precautions to protect their own lives. Failing to wear a seatbelt is an unnecessary risk. And please don't try to tell me how much safer it is to not have one on when you drive into a lake, or how uncomfortable it is. Ask how comfortable the contract state worker making $15.50/hr feels scraping your guts off the roadway after you die being thrown from your car crash.

Mark

I would have done something similar. I would have encouraged the insurance companies to require it or base their insurance coverage on it. Let the market decide. But the point I failed to make is this was the tip of the iceberg. Like the healthcare law, it was just one more bill or law pushed through against the will of the people. The more they get away with, the more they do.

And on that we totally agree. I'm fond of saying that unlike many other things, government is something that I'd like to receive LESS of than I'm paying for.

Mark

I don't remember who it was, but some guy once said, "You can tell the strength of a society by how many laws it has. The more laws, the weaker the society." I appluad anyone who has earned their fortune. I even have no grudge against lotto winners, more power to them. It is the blatant theives and cheats that I detest. Unfortunetly that now describes an unacceptably large crossection of the ruling arisocracy in todays world. There is a differance also between what is legal, and what is moral. I don't see any differance between someone who concocts a new deadly "designer drug" that quickly addicts users and kills them, and then later gets made "illegal" and someone who concocts a new "investment vehicle" designed to fleece the unsuspecting of what they had earned.
I don't know, I am just a bitter old man I guess. I am also guilty for taking this thread so far off topic that I should be banned from the forum. Really what I have done is clearly against the forum rules. I owe all of you an apolgy. I am sorry. I will shut up now.
DeTom

My issue with traffic stops is 9x out of 10 they do not do so to catch the problem driver, but to appease some one or something.

Speed traps are always set on in easy to speed areas and easy to catch. The last time I got pulled over was on a rural road which was wide enough to nearly be a 4 lane highway with a 30mp speed limit. He only got me for 40 and gave me a warning, but he also said they stop people here because it's easy.

Well, what when I get on the interstate doing mach 3 and the guy behind me is 2 feet from my rear bumper, the guy in the left lane is intentionally blocking traffic, and the guy behind him is zipping across 4 lanes to get around at 100mph.

Everyone has a story where some one should have been pulled over and hauled to jail. They never go after these guys.

<< and the guy behind him is zipping across 4 lanes to get around at 100mph... they never go after these guys >>

Um... we ARE those guys. And we're lucky we only get caught once in a while.

Just got a ticket yesterday from the California Highway Patrol, EVERYONE IS DOING 80+ on an open stretch of Interstate 5 past Magic Mountain. What pisses me off the most is many people were passing me. He gets me because I'm the clearest target with his laser gun as I come around a bend DOWN HILL. I asked him why me, he says well you looked to be going the fastest....horse crap, there was a Mustang gt that passed me a mile back going closer to 90. Why didn't SHE get a ticket?

I can see if I'm eratic, following too close, drunk. First speeding ticket in 15 years...flips me out. So then you set your cruise control at 65-70 and everyone is tailgating, pissed off at you cause you're going the speed limit.

I guess it's my contribution to trying to balance the California deficit and keep the piece of crap government going.

I guess it's my contribution to trying to balance the California deficit.[/QUOTE]

I feel for ya. All the crazy driving I see every day and you get a ticket for going over the posted limit, nothing else.

The majority of speeding tickets have nothing to do with traffic safety. It's just "tax collecting"

Doug M

Yeah I don't know of too many places on the I5 where people aren't regularly driving 80+ now. The 65 speed limit is a joke, nobody follows it. I think that is why they upped it from 55 years ago, nobody was going the speed limit. Technically a CHIP could pull onto the highway and have their pick, and thats exactly what he did with you Tom. The CHP station is right there in Castaic though, it used to be near Lyons Ave. in Newhall.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
<< and the guy behind him is zipping across 4 lanes to get around at 100mph... they never go after these guys >>

Um... we ARE those guys. And we're lucky we only get caught once in a while.

Bwahaahaahaaaa!

I don't get caught up in the "why me" arguments any more. I know I am taking a chance when I speed, and take my lumps when I get caught. I cannot drive a car that gets a lot of attention and then complain when my car is picked out of a crowd for speeding.

The only time I will claim "BS" if I am going the speed limit and I get a truly BS ticket...but that has never happened. I have always been going the speed they said I was.

I've driven 1200 miles a week, 49 weeks of the year (everyone HAS to take a vacation)for the last 8 years. The route-Bakersfield down the 99 to the 5 past Magic Mountain and into LA or Santa Barbara. I've recieved three tickets-all deserved. Three tickets in almost half a million miles is okay by me. I figure I owe them...............

quote:

Originally posted by Fahrenheit351:
I've driven 1200 miles a week, 49 weeks of the year (everyone HAS to take a vacation)for the last 8 years. The route-Bakersfield down the 99 to the 5 past Magic Mountain and into LA or Santa Barbara. I've recieved three tickets-all deserved. Three tickets in almost half a million miles is okay by me. I figure I owe them...............

Do you mind if I ask how much was your ticket for? 167 in a 50 mph zone must have been a pretty juicy sum of change eh?????