Anyone seen or heard from Llyod? No answer on shop phone, and message machine is full.
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Message on poca email list said he had been out of town on vacation last couple weeks. But said he was back now. Also said rebuild lead times were 5 to 6 months 
According to the DeTomaso e-mail list, this is the best way to reach Lloyd:
quote:I just talked to Lloyd, and he's pretty buried by a bunch of orders for ZFs for Superformance GT40s. He said he still wants to help the Pantera guys and views them as his long term customers. If you can't get him on the phone, he said to FAX him at 714-516-1216 and he'll try to get back to you ASAP.
The following is what Mike Drew posted to the DeTomaso list:
Lloyd Butfoy's business has EXPLODED with the arrival of the Superformance
GT40 replica. The demand for 'our' gearboxes has gone up by a factor of ten, at
least. He is completely overwhelmed, as he was working flat-out just taking
care of the Pantera/Mangusta/M1/GT40 crowd beforehand. He is working seven
days a week trying to keep up with demand.
I have watched with interest and read the various posts going on about Lloyd
Butfoy and RBT Transmissions (which technically stands for Roy Butfoy
Transmissions Transmissions, something that bugs me no end) on the GT40 forum.
Particularly on the Superformance part of the forum, there is much moaning and
hand-wringing about the availability (or lack thereof) of Mister Butfoy, and the big
question mark about the completion date for various gearboxes.
Lloyd and I have been friends for the better part of 15 years, so on January
2nd I decided to simply pay him a visit and see how things are going. I am
pleased to report that Lloyd is alive and well, and your orders have not been
lost or forgotten.
Here is a photo that I shot inside his shop.
http://members.aol.com/mikeldrew/RBT.jpg
These are all used transaxles that customers have sent in to be overhauled
(including yours). Most are from Panteras, although there are a few from the BMW
M1 or original GT40s, and the occasional Mangusta. Some of the gearboxes in
this photo are being converted from their original Pantera configuration to be
used in a GT40, which I learned is not as trivial as simply flipping the ring
and pinion. He pointed out some of the many modifications that need to be made
to enable the gearbox to function inverted.
All the new gearboxes are being screwed together in Texas by his business
partner, Oliver. Lloyd told me that every single part in those gearboxes is new,
whereas with the gearboxes in his California shop, to keep costs down and with
concurrence of the owner, he often tries to salvage good used parts (one
friend's gearbox was there with a crack in the back part of the case, and Lloyd
was able to supply a used replacement that was in perfect shape at a
considerable cost savings).
Lloyd told me that some people are rather desperate to get their
gearboxes--Fran Kress actually sent a blank, signed check along with a plea to get his
gearbox turned quickly! But there is an established queue, and it takes awhile to
move to the front of the line. My friend had taken his gearbox there on
October 14, 2006, and on January 2, 2007, Lloyd had partially dismantled it (all
the gears were still on the mainshaft but it was otherwise apart), diagnosed the
crack in the case and sourced a replacement piece from his inventory. He
estimated that the gearbox would be completed and out the door in about 4-8 weeks.
He said that his ambition is to complete 3-4 gearboxes a week.
Until recently he was working alone; in the photo you can barely see his new
part-time helper behind him. This fellow has just come on board here and is
helping to deal with the backlog; he is basically an apprentice and is learning
from Lloyd how to do the work, although from what I could see, his job seems
to be limited to taking things apart, and Lloyd still does the artisan work of
diagnosing the problems and then fixing them, and putting things back together.
Oliver in Texas has reportedly hired several people to help him, and hopes to
have them all trained up and ready to go by the end of January. Curiously,
the gearboxes he builds all are shipped to Lloyd in California, who I guess does
some final assembly work and quality control, before shipping them to the
customers.
I asked Lloyd what the wait would be if a customer placed a new gearbox order
today (for a brand-new gearbox that is), and he said that if all goes well,
it would be shipped to the customer in about two and a half months, which is a
great improvement over the recent past. Gearbox overhauls take longer, because
there is considerably more work involved, depending on the condition of the
gearbox to begin with.
Lloyd told me that some GT40 people were downright belligerant, demanding
instant gratification and getting obnoxious when they are told that they are
going to have to wait in line behind everybody else. He said that he has offered
to send several checks back to people who crossed over the line of civility.
The bottom line is, there is only so much that one man (or one man plus a
partner and a few helpers) can do in a given amount of time, and it's important
to remain patient and understanding.
Remember, Lloyd's business was running flat-out before the explosion of
interest in the GT40, so he has had a lot to cope with lately. But I saw a whole
bunch of new gearbox orders tacked to his bulletin board (FAX is the preferred
method of submitting an order), and each of them will be filled in due time,
with the same high quality that RBT has always been known for.
So, for any of you that were worried because your phone calls were unanswered
(Lloyd was working the whole time we were talking, and the phone was ringing
constantly, and he told me that he was committed to finishing the job at hand
before attending to phone calls later in the day), and your e-mails ignored
(he doesn't go near the computer anymore, as his inbox is flooded with 2000-3000
e-mails at any given time), rest assured that he WILL get to your job,
eventually, and you will be happy with the result.
If you need to communicate with Lloyd, the best thing to do is simply to send
him a FAX explaining briefly what the issue is, and with return contact
information. He does return phone calls at some point during the day, and he will
get back to you eventually.
I can't say I agree with the way he is doing business; I think it would be a
good idea for him to hire a low-cost temp to just answer the phone for a
couple of hours a day. But right now, that's not the way he is operating. Every
second spent talking on the phone is time NOT spent screwing a gearbox together
for somebody.
Since I shared this news with the GT40 forum, several people with concerns
like yours sent a FAX to Lloyd, with a telephone number and a simple query;
Lloyd called every one of them at the end of the business day, within a day or two
of receipt. So that's the hot ticket.
Based on the fact you sent your gearbox to him in October, I would expect
that you will see it sometime near the end of February, still in plenty of time
for you to enjoy the spring driving season. :>)
Mike
Lloyd Butfoy's business has EXPLODED with the arrival of the Superformance
GT40 replica. The demand for 'our' gearboxes has gone up by a factor of ten, at
least. He is completely overwhelmed, as he was working flat-out just taking
care of the Pantera/Mangusta/M1/GT40 crowd beforehand. He is working seven
days a week trying to keep up with demand.
I have watched with interest and read the various posts going on about Lloyd
Butfoy and RBT Transmissions (which technically stands for Roy Butfoy
Transmissions Transmissions, something that bugs me no end) on the GT40 forum.
Particularly on the Superformance part of the forum, there is much moaning and
hand-wringing about the availability (or lack thereof) of Mister Butfoy, and the big
question mark about the completion date for various gearboxes.
Lloyd and I have been friends for the better part of 15 years, so on January
2nd I decided to simply pay him a visit and see how things are going. I am
pleased to report that Lloyd is alive and well, and your orders have not been
lost or forgotten.
Here is a photo that I shot inside his shop.
http://members.aol.com/mikeldrew/RBT.jpg
These are all used transaxles that customers have sent in to be overhauled
(including yours). Most are from Panteras, although there are a few from the BMW
M1 or original GT40s, and the occasional Mangusta. Some of the gearboxes in
this photo are being converted from their original Pantera configuration to be
used in a GT40, which I learned is not as trivial as simply flipping the ring
and pinion. He pointed out some of the many modifications that need to be made
to enable the gearbox to function inverted.
All the new gearboxes are being screwed together in Texas by his business
partner, Oliver. Lloyd told me that every single part in those gearboxes is new,
whereas with the gearboxes in his California shop, to keep costs down and with
concurrence of the owner, he often tries to salvage good used parts (one
friend's gearbox was there with a crack in the back part of the case, and Lloyd
was able to supply a used replacement that was in perfect shape at a
considerable cost savings).
Lloyd told me that some people are rather desperate to get their
gearboxes--Fran Kress actually sent a blank, signed check along with a plea to get his
gearbox turned quickly! But there is an established queue, and it takes awhile to
move to the front of the line. My friend had taken his gearbox there on
October 14, 2006, and on January 2, 2007, Lloyd had partially dismantled it (all
the gears were still on the mainshaft but it was otherwise apart), diagnosed the
crack in the case and sourced a replacement piece from his inventory. He
estimated that the gearbox would be completed and out the door in about 4-8 weeks.
He said that his ambition is to complete 3-4 gearboxes a week.
Until recently he was working alone; in the photo you can barely see his new
part-time helper behind him. This fellow has just come on board here and is
helping to deal with the backlog; he is basically an apprentice and is learning
from Lloyd how to do the work, although from what I could see, his job seems
to be limited to taking things apart, and Lloyd still does the artisan work of
diagnosing the problems and then fixing them, and putting things back together.
Oliver in Texas has reportedly hired several people to help him, and hopes to
have them all trained up and ready to go by the end of January. Curiously,
the gearboxes he builds all are shipped to Lloyd in California, who I guess does
some final assembly work and quality control, before shipping them to the
customers.
I asked Lloyd what the wait would be if a customer placed a new gearbox order
today (for a brand-new gearbox that is), and he said that if all goes well,
it would be shipped to the customer in about two and a half months, which is a
great improvement over the recent past. Gearbox overhauls take longer, because
there is considerably more work involved, depending on the condition of the
gearbox to begin with.
Lloyd told me that some GT40 people were downright belligerant, demanding
instant gratification and getting obnoxious when they are told that they are
going to have to wait in line behind everybody else. He said that he has offered
to send several checks back to people who crossed over the line of civility.
The bottom line is, there is only so much that one man (or one man plus a
partner and a few helpers) can do in a given amount of time, and it's important
to remain patient and understanding.
Remember, Lloyd's business was running flat-out before the explosion of
interest in the GT40, so he has had a lot to cope with lately. But I saw a whole
bunch of new gearbox orders tacked to his bulletin board (FAX is the preferred
method of submitting an order), and each of them will be filled in due time,
with the same high quality that RBT has always been known for.
So, for any of you that were worried because your phone calls were unanswered
(Lloyd was working the whole time we were talking, and the phone was ringing
constantly, and he told me that he was committed to finishing the job at hand
before attending to phone calls later in the day), and your e-mails ignored
(he doesn't go near the computer anymore, as his inbox is flooded with 2000-3000
e-mails at any given time), rest assured that he WILL get to your job,
eventually, and you will be happy with the result.
If you need to communicate with Lloyd, the best thing to do is simply to send
him a FAX explaining briefly what the issue is, and with return contact
information. He does return phone calls at some point during the day, and he will
get back to you eventually.
I can't say I agree with the way he is doing business; I think it would be a
good idea for him to hire a low-cost temp to just answer the phone for a
couple of hours a day. But right now, that's not the way he is operating. Every
second spent talking on the phone is time NOT spent screwing a gearbox together
for somebody.
Since I shared this news with the GT40 forum, several people with concerns
like yours sent a FAX to Lloyd, with a telephone number and a simple query;
Lloyd called every one of them at the end of the business day, within a day or two
of receipt. So that's the hot ticket.
Based on the fact you sent your gearbox to him in October, I would expect
that you will see it sometime near the end of February, still in plenty of time
for you to enjoy the spring driving season. :>)
Mike
Roland, I just got done reading the email list and I guess the real problem is that superperfomance GT40 kit car. They all want ZFs and they are selling like hot cakes. He just can't keep up with demand. What we need is a new factory to make an old transmission.
Sometimes I feel the same way Roland....I just wish there was something else out there that offered the same bang for the buck, because I would make the change myself.
Roland Jaeckel[/QUOTE] For me it's time to sell the car and look for another peace of fun.
Roland Jaeckel[/QUOTE] For me it's time to sell the car and look for another peace of fun.
quote:Originally posted by pantera874:
...Does this person look like one that repairs gearboxes seven days a week? ...
No, Lloyd looks like a business man posing for a picture.
I think Lloyd is handling an unexpected increase in demand properly, you don't react immediately, you have to observe the market long enough to determine if its a short term increase, or a long term increase, only then can a businessman determine the proper strategy to supply the increased demand. Then it takes time to acquire the increased tools, materials, work space, hire & train new personnel. The result of this process is several months of backed up work, but that's life folks. Lloyd could have just as easily doubled his prices and left his production capacity where it was at. That is another strategy for handling an increase in demand.
Its very easy to write criticisms over the internet. But that's not what we provide this bulletin board for. Lloyd has served the DeTomaso hobby very well, for a very long time, and his father did so before him.
cowboy from hell
George well put ... Lloyd god bless you ..all I can say is hire one more good man to start off with.
I have been there done that .. and made mistakes .. my company was in INC500 2 years in a row and the fastest growing business is NOT the best ... but if you control growth ..well now there we have a real challange.
Superperformance is only adding to supply and demand and Lloyds prices will go up ... so if you want to own a 80k car and pay pennies for a transmittion ... those days are gone .. sell your pantera cheap and cash out.
SO what the result is its winter .. send your transmittion out now and as long as our ZF SUPER MAN IS ALIVE AND WELL he will get to it and dont send a blank check ... because he AINT IMPRESSED ... I knew there was something about him I loved. LOL A true craftsman ... money aint everything.
Ron
Ron
I have been there done that .. and made mistakes .. my company was in INC500 2 years in a row and the fastest growing business is NOT the best ... but if you control growth ..well now there we have a real challange.
Superperformance is only adding to supply and demand and Lloyds prices will go up ... so if you want to own a 80k car and pay pennies for a transmittion ... those days are gone .. sell your pantera cheap and cash out.
SO what the result is its winter .. send your transmittion out now and as long as our ZF SUPER MAN IS ALIVE AND WELL he will get to it and dont send a blank check ... because he AINT IMPRESSED ... I knew there was something about him I loved. LOL A true craftsman ... money aint everything.
Ron
Ron
Matt ,
Thanks your a true friend to Lloyd .. he should be happy to have you !
Ron
Thanks your a true friend to Lloyd .. he should be happy to have you !
Ron
So anyone have an update on the backlog of Mr. Butfoy's work load .. is it a good time or a bad time to send him a ZF ???
Ron
Ron
No update, but logic says the sooner he gets it, the sooner he sends it back. 
He has refused blank checks from guys wanting to get to the front of the line, and says he will finish jobs in the order they come in.
Larry
He has refused blank checks from guys wanting to get to the front of the line, and says he will finish jobs in the order they come in.
Larry
quote:So anyone have an update on the backlog of Mr. Butfoy's work load .. is it a good time or a bad time to send him a ZF ???
There are other places to get the work done depending on what you're looking for.
I;m looking to upgrade it to handle a more horsepower.
Ron
Ron
Ron, Rockland Gear can't handle this or they can't be bothered?
Maybe I'll start to do them. I got a couple of wrenches. Metric ones too.
Maybe I'll start to do them. I got a couple of wrenches. Metric ones too.
Call Dennis Quella.
quote:Originally posted by jeff6559:quote:So anyone have an update on the backlog of Mr. Butfoy's work load .. is it a good time or a bad time to send him a ZF ???
There are other places to get the work done depending on what you're looking for.
Doug,
Rock Std Gear is an authorized ZF dealer and rebuilder ...but Lloyd owns the rights to the ZF in the Pantera in the USA.
I know there are other places .. but Iam reluctant to send it to someone or somewhere I cannot visit to get the work done .. been hosed way too many times .. so I;ll see.
If I had the special tools I'm sure I could rebuild it .. but also who has the time.
I wanted to go to the source.
Ron
Rock Std Gear is an authorized ZF dealer and rebuilder ...but Lloyd owns the rights to the ZF in the Pantera in the USA.
I know there are other places .. but Iam reluctant to send it to someone or somewhere I cannot visit to get the work done .. been hosed way too many times .. so I;ll see.
If I had the special tools I'm sure I could rebuild it .. but also who has the time.
I wanted to go to the source.
Ron
That raises an interesting point or issue. I have had a couple of extensive discussions with Lyod.
He pointed out that the ZF is no more challenging to work on then any other transmission.
Everyone goes to him because he is the man. He is years behind.
Why just use him? He can't handle all the work?
He pointed out that the ZF is no more challenging to work on then any other transmission.
Everyone goes to him because he is the man. He is years behind.
Why just use him? He can't handle all the work?
His deal gives him control of the spare parts. Others can do the rebuilds but he controls the factory authorized spare parts production. Some of the parts have been knocked off by others but not all.
Ok I had a thought.
How many times have I dreamed that I could have control of a factory authorized parts for lets say a Special Air Conditioning System and on top of that have years of backlog of work.
I guess between us friends here on this little site ... I see a great business opportunity. Maybe in this time of need Lloyd needs a good business partner. Or maybe he has a plan and is farming out the parts to the other guys and thats where we are supposed to go ???
Ok I figured it out myself ... I;m a little slow at times !! LOL
How many times have I dreamed that I could have control of a factory authorized parts for lets say a Special Air Conditioning System and on top of that have years of backlog of work.
I guess between us friends here on this little site ... I see a great business opportunity. Maybe in this time of need Lloyd needs a good business partner. Or maybe he has a plan and is farming out the parts to the other guys and thats where we are supposed to go ???
Ok I figured it out myself ... I;m a little slow at times !! LOL
If I can help any of you guys with ZF transaxle rebuilds give me a call, I've been doing them for about seventeen years, I have done the all at one time or another, M1, Pantera, GT40, Mclaren, Lotus, Matra etc. I am based in the UK, but shipping is shipping, I get them in from all over Europe anyway. I have spares for Type "0" Gt40 boxes and access to dash 1, mainly. I also have the unique pinnion and mainshaft bearings. I currently have a Brand new unused " RBT" box for sale that is configured for GT40 use. I know exchange rate is not very favourable at moment but it must be better than not knowing when or if you may get your box done.
Paul
Paul
Isn't Steve Wilkinson an authorized ZF rebuilder?
Lloyd Butfoy has been a supporter of PI for years in terms of technical information, Forum Moderator, advertiser and enthusiast. He and his late father, Roy, a wonderful human being, have made many technical improvements in the ZF and made parts where there formerly were none, such as the much stronger case.
Over the past few decades, the ZF was essentially an orphaned transmission and was not a hot commodity. Thanks to Lloyd and his father, this transmission has become the standard of the specialty car industry and is used in a lot of cars such as the Saleen S7, Cizetta Moroder, Shelby Series II, GT40 replicars and the Foose Hemisfear to name a few. Foose has ordered over 50 of these transmissions, more than probably our whole hobby would consume in a decade. When was the last time any of us bought a whole new transmission? I have had a few rebuilds by RBT since 1974 but never needed a whole new box.
If Lloyd wasn't a great Pantera enthusiast, he probably would do quite well without our business. While some Pantera enthusiasts cry about high prices, other small manufacturers think the ZF and RBT6 are bargains. Ever price a Ricardo trans?
If Lloyd could crank out a ZF overnight, he would. I know. He has worked trackside with me in the past at the Palm Springs Grand Prix to keep me running when a Centerforce clutch I made the mistake of running, self-destructed.
I hope that those needing Lloyd's services will think twice before they give this gentleman a tune up over the phone or make silly comments in a Forum.
We are fortunate Lloyd hasn't told our Pantera market segment to take a hike. He will be there for us when called upon. Maybe not in a split second but he will get the job done and done right.
If Lloyd had to take every phone call, respond to every fax and email, we would never get any work product from him. Please don't hound him because it takes precious time away from other customers who are patiently waiting. Be happy that Lloyd is busy and successful because this ensures that there will be an incentive for him to continue to serve the marketplace, benefiting us Pantera owners. Dave
Over the past few decades, the ZF was essentially an orphaned transmission and was not a hot commodity. Thanks to Lloyd and his father, this transmission has become the standard of the specialty car industry and is used in a lot of cars such as the Saleen S7, Cizetta Moroder, Shelby Series II, GT40 replicars and the Foose Hemisfear to name a few. Foose has ordered over 50 of these transmissions, more than probably our whole hobby would consume in a decade. When was the last time any of us bought a whole new transmission? I have had a few rebuilds by RBT since 1974 but never needed a whole new box.
If Lloyd wasn't a great Pantera enthusiast, he probably would do quite well without our business. While some Pantera enthusiasts cry about high prices, other small manufacturers think the ZF and RBT6 are bargains. Ever price a Ricardo trans?
If Lloyd could crank out a ZF overnight, he would. I know. He has worked trackside with me in the past at the Palm Springs Grand Prix to keep me running when a Centerforce clutch I made the mistake of running, self-destructed.
I hope that those needing Lloyd's services will think twice before they give this gentleman a tune up over the phone or make silly comments in a Forum.
We are fortunate Lloyd hasn't told our Pantera market segment to take a hike. He will be there for us when called upon. Maybe not in a split second but he will get the job done and done right.
If Lloyd had to take every phone call, respond to every fax and email, we would never get any work product from him. Please don't hound him because it takes precious time away from other customers who are patiently waiting. Be happy that Lloyd is busy and successful because this ensures that there will be an incentive for him to continue to serve the marketplace, benefiting us Pantera owners. Dave
The way I see it those people who have expressed concern about the wait times are doing Lloyd a favor. The vast majority of businesses never get the opportunity to hear a customers concerns. Most pissed off customers simply choose to spend their hard earned dollars with someone else. I know thats what I do. Life is too short to stress over it and there is ALWAYS someone else willing to take your money!!!!
Miles
Miles
, but that adds to the bottom line. 
Mark,
Thanks for the update ... basically that was my question ..I'm happy to hear that.
Ron
Thanks for the update ... basically that was my question ..I'm happy to hear that.
Ron