Rear Brakes

I thought about this once, in an effort to reduce unsprung weight. There's a system that attaches to the inboard stub-axle flanges It would work OK on the right side but on the left (drivers) side, any disc above about 6" in diameter runs into the ZF shifter box. I might still use the right inboard disc for some type of e-brake system, though. Inboard discs are kind of controversial- seems like if the brake and tire are widely separated, the connecting axle/half-shafts/u-joints wind up like a coil spring under hard braking and give you weird handing effects. I note that F-1 and CART real-racers do NOT use inboard discs...

I had a couple of Lotus Esprits at one time, a '77 and a'78. I think they had inboard disc brakes. That was 17 years ago and my memory may be wrong. I was at some F-1 and CART rases at Long Beach, CA around 1980-1987 and they were using inboard disc brakes at that time. The current set-up are outbard, and it may be for the cooling ducts or aerodynamic designs. They change the brake ducts for each race track because each requires different braking loads, but the ducts cause big aerodynamic drag, so they always keep them as small as possible. Incidentally, they change the disk (rotor) type for each track (some ventillated, some solid) thay also change the calipers for each track and the brake pad material. I visited the Galles CART Shop in Albuquerque, NM in 1991 (before they went to the IRL League) and they coat the calipers with this gree liquid and flouresce them under special UV ights to look for cracks after each race, and they rebuild each shock after every race, etc.-very impressive)

The Lotus Esprit used many Ford parts (including a very much underpowered engine), so you may investigate Lotus Esprit to confirm this and maybe find a salvage situation where parts may be available. Even just a view of the Lotus Esprit on the 'net may be a good starting point for info, followed by a view of an Esprit at a dealer so view the set-up.

Those F-1's in those early years at long Beach had half shafts that were about 5/8" diameter and they REALLY PEELED OUT!!! I mean, they laid rubber down for 100 feet, which was visible for months or even years later on the city streets. (CART never had standing starts. So, it wasn't those guys who laid the rubber.) (I saw Mario Andretti running an F-1 there.) (I saw a guy do a complete 260 degree turn and never hit the concrete barrier on Pine Street, on Lap 1, on cold tires, just before they all took a right hand turn and got airborn beading down onto Shoreline Blvd.) (Man, that was an exciting day, they were hitting about 14,000 RPM only back then, and did it ever make the adrenalin pump in the crowd. Shrieeeeeking noise!)

Interesting question, keep us informed what you find out!

Thanks for your replies, If you could get by the shifter linkage problem it would probably be a nice looking street setup. Would it be correct to say that there would be less stress on the half shafts because the the braking is being done at the trans outputs??? Although the half shafts are similar to a drive shaft they can take some pretty amazing loads. I like the e-brake setup idea. If you go to a racing brake setup that doesn't provide a parking brake arrangement with the caliper, then mount a small rotor and caliper on the right side. As far as the trans goes is it possible to modify the linkage to extend it past the area of interferance? ( I don't have a Pantera yet, so I can't tell by pictures ) or use a hat type rotor that brings the disc part out past the linkage and not interfere with the half shaft hole in the body and of coarse do the same to both sides to make it look correct.. Just thinking...

There's so many different ways to accomplish everything you may want to do. It really comes down to what do you really want to spend your Pantera bucks on most. When you get it, it'll cause you Pantera Fever, really bad. There are many affordable ways to upgrade the Pantera's brakes already. New brake pad composites materials, full hat, caliper, disk bolt on off-the shelf systems that are fully performace oriented. Brake boosters, master cylinders, etc. How much money do you have? Is this gonna be top priority, what do you gain? Most Pantera Vendors could probably do what you desire, so you can have what you want. Inboard, outboard, what do you think? Can't see them most of the time anyways.

Here's an idea: Get a 1980 CART race car. Seen them in Hemmings under race cars for sale, can even get them for about $25,000 to $50,000 with or without the engine, then just put a Pantera body on it. That WILL get everyone's attention.

Hey Ron ! I'm not sounding like that Tate guy am I ??????

Derrick, many of the guys on this board have big bucks, many are long time Pantera owners, many are new Pantera owners, many are just above average income earners who have long project lists like me. It's good that you are thinking about automotive technology and asking why this now, but that back then. Really, though, inboard disk brakes just reduce unsprung weight. If you read the article in PI about wheels and tires, that's really a better way to spend the money. Rotating mass causes centrifcal force, there's a mathematical formula for it. Reduce that unsprung weight first, for the best bang for your buck, then go to smaller details. I had to decide whether to get my entire exhaust Jet-Hot Coated right now. My car's only been mine 7 weeks, and I've spent so much money, so fast, and it's getting even further dissassembled in the next 36 hours, man, this stuff scares me. I can barely get around in my garage right now, with parts everywhere, and cash flowing out of my pocket. I'd really have considered the '71 offered by Fire & Isis if I hadn't already got mine. If I sold mine, then, with my luck, that one would be sold. Taters, well the name says it all. No steak and taters, just taters. Didn't drive down to San Diego, just complaining 'cause life's pasin' him by. I wanted my Pantera for 30 years. And I'm just gonna do what I want to it. The Lotus was a doggone fast car around the corners, faster than a Pantera, about 1000 pounds lighter, and I was running 12 psi rear w/ 12" skins and 8 psi front w/ 10" skins. Looked great, but no power. They're turbo charged now, but I wanted a Pantera.

The great thing in life is you can do what you want, if you are gonna work hard for it, but it ain't gonna come easy.

F-1 and CART forgot about the disk brakes, and Jack said why he thought so, and so did I. You are free to go whatever way you want in this regard. I, for one, do not have an infinitly deep pocket. You've identified some potential problems, but don't let that stop you from getting a Pantera, that ain't no big deal....

s/ Ron

Derrick:

I've thought about what I said earlier, regarding taking a 1980's CART and putting a Pantera body on it. That was uncalled for. So, with humilty, I apolgize. I have always thought that would really be the ultimate, a car with the capabilty to win at Le Mans or Indy or in an F-1 Gran Prix, that can be driven on the street. Maybe I was flip about it. So, I'm sorry.

Maybe this guy 'taters' has been someone who is just an arrogant idiot who wants anyone who has worked on their cars to just give it to him for a song, with an apology for all the work they have toiled over for many years, well, maybe that guy sort of makes me angry. And maybe I sort of seemingly made a comment in outburst which was misplaced. So, I was wrong to do that.

In any event, I stand by the advice that I gave and Jack gave, you gotta prioritize the cash you're gonna spend. And inboard disc brakes are just down on the list. The $$ can go way high way fast, so we're all just trying to get the coolest car for the money, with the best results for the $$. Even the guys with big $$$.

I was, like you, subscribing to the clubs, reading, wanting, and accumulating knowledge years before I got my Pantera. So, dude, you remind me of me. And on that note, if I can help you, I will. I want you to know that nobody ever gave me anything, and what I got, came the hard way. So, I appreciate it that much more. And, on the other side, I respect those who have to or had to do the same.

So keep asking yourself, why is this automotive technology this way, or why did they do that, or change it after all? And maybe you'll come up with something on the cutting edge. That's what we do here in America, lead the world in innovation. So, I'm sorry if I seemed like I wanted to shoot you down. I didn't and don't.

(But I'm gonna shoot down that idiot 'taters' because he is a flip guy who wants to prey on people with vulnerability, a vulture. Vultures don't get a tear from my eye when they get hit by a car on the freeway eating a dead carcass.)

So, ask questions, learn, aim for your goal (s), figure out a strategy to achieve your goal(s), and you will get there. The only people who are really lost in life are the people who have no goal(s).

s/ Ron

Thanks Ron, No apologies required or necessary as it is very difficult to deal with some people you try to help and they don't seem to get the message. The Taters post is a good example as I find very difficult not to respond myself. He obviously wants a higher valued car for the price he wants to pay, and even worse I wouldn't want to be the person that he bought a car from either. As far as I'm concerned I am doing exactely what you said you did in your search. Great oppurtunities like we have available now with this type of forum allows us to research better then ever the information we need to find out, like ask alot of dumb questions or comments etc... I am learning alot and come across some good advice and ideas that I would like to do to a car someday when I get to own one of these cars. Then I can see the hemeraging at the wallet to obtain car of my dreams. Like you I also don't have a money tree out back and I have to be very selective and get the best value I can with the mods I would like to acomplish.. The inboard brake was just an idea I threw out there to see if anyone has attempted it or was a bad idea, but I did learn something about a e-brake setup that look like it could work.. I could go on all day, thanks again and good luck with your car. Derrick