Will I need new bearings and seals for this job? I have one stud that has been cut off (still able to get a nut on about 3 threads deep). I plan to replace the rear bushings at the same time.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Oh boy, this will prove to be a big chore for one lug nut, although it most probably should be done. Do you have the proper socket/tool to index on the axle nut? These nuts torque to some amazing spec of 300-400 foot pounds! No tool = no deal :-(
I see you are in Florida. It might be worth your trouble to contact Marino at Pantera East. You could ship the uprights, since you are taking things all apart for the bushings, to Marino and let him handle this part of the job for you. He would also be able to see if your axles have started to self-destruct, check bearings, etc. You will have plenty of fun changing out the stock rubber bushings without also having to entertain yourself with the axle nut chore.
Good luck,
Larry
[This message has been edited by LF - Teach Peace (edited 08-23-2003).]
I see you are in Florida. It might be worth your trouble to contact Marino at Pantera East. You could ship the uprights, since you are taking things all apart for the bushings, to Marino and let him handle this part of the job for you. He would also be able to see if your axles have started to self-destruct, check bearings, etc. You will have plenty of fun changing out the stock rubber bushings without also having to entertain yourself with the axle nut chore.
Good luck,
Larry
[This message has been edited by LF - Teach Peace (edited 08-23-2003).]
LF,
You confirmed my night mare. While I have a good "hobby shop" I don't have the special tool nor a torque wrench that will go that high. Looks like Marino will get the job.
You confirmed my night mare. While I have a good "hobby shop" I don't have the special tool nor a torque wrench that will go that high. Looks like Marino will get the job.
Check with Marino, I don't know if he does service work or not, I bought the axel tool from Marino and my local machine shop had a large enough torque wrench to do the job. You might spend a small fortune (about the cost of the tool itself) in shipping your parts back and forth to him, and you would have the tool on hand for the future. Marino's part number is PE0010 and the price is $59.95
Gary #06984
Gary #06984
Keep in mind, the special tool is simply a socket which can be purchased from the vendors (~$60) OR another Pantera owner local to you can lend out. The socket is used to remove the axel nut (left side is clockwise to remove).
The 375 ft/lbs axel nut torque can be achieved with an impact wrench (close enought for some folks) OR take the upright it to a muffler/shock install shop OR a good tool shop should be able to rent you a mongo torque wrench (3/4 inch drive) which should take you up to 350 ft/lbs. You may also need a 3/4 to 1/2 inch drive adapter if the socket is 1/2 inch....
OR the easiest way I've found to torque the nut is to use the CAR to hold the upright in place! Re-assemble the bottom of the hub to the lower control arm, attached to the car. Put the wheels back on the car and get the car on the ground. Put a cheater bar on the end of the wrench and either stand on the end of it or pull up on the bar (depending on which side you are working on). The weight of the car smashing the tires (put chalks in front and back and put the car in gear) will allow you to really torque the snot out of that nut!
The job is fairly easy, simply bolt off - bolt on considering you don't even need to press out the bearings. Take it from someone who's done the job -- you'll need some muscle to get it done, but it's pretty easy AND a lot cheaper than sending it to Marino or whomever!!!
Bob Eaton
The 375 ft/lbs axel nut torque can be achieved with an impact wrench (close enought for some folks) OR take the upright it to a muffler/shock install shop OR a good tool shop should be able to rent you a mongo torque wrench (3/4 inch drive) which should take you up to 350 ft/lbs. You may also need a 3/4 to 1/2 inch drive adapter if the socket is 1/2 inch....
OR the easiest way I've found to torque the nut is to use the CAR to hold the upright in place! Re-assemble the bottom of the hub to the lower control arm, attached to the car. Put the wheels back on the car and get the car on the ground. Put a cheater bar on the end of the wrench and either stand on the end of it or pull up on the bar (depending on which side you are working on). The weight of the car smashing the tires (put chalks in front and back and put the car in gear) will allow you to really torque the snot out of that nut!
The job is fairly easy, simply bolt off - bolt on considering you don't even need to press out the bearings. Take it from someone who's done the job -- you'll need some muscle to get it done, but it's pretty easy AND a lot cheaper than sending it to Marino or whomever!!!
Bob Eaton
quote:
Originally posted by LF - Teach Peace:
Oh boy, this will prove to be a big chore for one lug nut, although it most probably should be done. Do you have the proper socket/tool to index on the axel nut? These nuts torque to some amazing spec of 300-400 foot pounds! No tool = no deal :-(
I see you are in Florida. It might be worth your trouble to contact Marino at Pantera East. You could ship the uprights, since you are taking things all apart for the bushings, to Marino and let him handle this part of the job for you. He would also be able to see if your axels have started to self-destruct, check bearings, etc. You will have plenty of fun changing out the stock rubber bushings without also having to entertain yourself with the axel nut chore.
Good luck,
Larry
I don't think Marino does this.
Your biggest problem is, there's not enough clearance between the axle flange and the hub to drive the old stud out, and installing a new stud requires disassembly of the upright. This can be done with a special socket, but again, there are several designs of socket and some do not fit all types of halfshaft nuts. The best IMHO is the type that completely surrounds the nut AND is deep enough to accept all types of nuts. Finally, given that some axles are left-hand-thread and some are rt-hand (the letter 'S' is stamped into left-hand-thread axles), there's an opportunity to screw up royally here. I also found one axle nut that had been assembled by a paranoid- he torqued the nut to the moon with red Lock-tite in the threads! After exceeding 1000 ft-lbs trying to disassemble this one, I cut the nut off with an oxy-acetylene torch. So having a new axle nut handy as well as bearings, seals and the replacement stud, is a good idea. Once the axle is pressed out, you may find incipient axle faiuler as well, since stock axles were undersized from the factory, so the tightness of the nut does not keep the soft axle from wobbling in the hard bearings, wearing out the axle which then must be repaired or replaced. The critical wear is in the 4th decimal so a precision micrometer must be used to check the axle. If all this sounds beyond your capabilities, e-mail some Panrtera vendors about shipping the whole upright to them for overhaul.
quote:
Originally posted by jack deryke:
Your biggest problem is, there's not enough clearance between the axle flange and the hub to drive the old stud out, and installing a new stud requires disassembly of the upright. This can be done with a special socket, but again, there are several designs of socket and some do not fit all types of halfshaft nuts. The best IMHO is the type that completely surrounds the nut AND is deep enough to accept all types of nuts. .
The correct axle nut socket is the only one Marino sells.
While the axle is out you might as well not mess with guessing whether your stock axle is within specs....replace it with a new one from one of the vendors.
[This message has been edited by Highway Star (edited 08-23-2003).]
Whoaa!
Replacing the axles just 'because' could be a BIG waste of money. I have a 36K mile chassis with the original hollow-shaft axles. Uprights were converted at Quella's Pantera Performance Center to tapered bearings when the chassis had 24K miles. Dennis is famous for adding two billet axles to the bill if the original axles are not still perfect. He left mine alone. Thus, if your car is also a low mileage chassis, you too may have non-damaged axles. Once this conversion is done, the new bearings behave differently on the axle and it will not self-destruct. BUT, if you have wide 17"tires, the hollow axles can prove failure-prone under lots of hard driving cornering. Let your vendor, if you decide to go to one, check those axles first. If they are still good, and you deem them strong enough for your driving style, the money you saved by NOT buying billets will do a good job of paying for a bearing conversion.
And you just wanted to fix a broken lug nut :-)
Larry
Replacing the axles just 'because' could be a BIG waste of money. I have a 36K mile chassis with the original hollow-shaft axles. Uprights were converted at Quella's Pantera Performance Center to tapered bearings when the chassis had 24K miles. Dennis is famous for adding two billet axles to the bill if the original axles are not still perfect. He left mine alone. Thus, if your car is also a low mileage chassis, you too may have non-damaged axles. Once this conversion is done, the new bearings behave differently on the axle and it will not self-destruct. BUT, if you have wide 17"tires, the hollow axles can prove failure-prone under lots of hard driving cornering. Let your vendor, if you decide to go to one, check those axles first. If they are still good, and you deem them strong enough for your driving style, the money you saved by NOT buying billets will do a good job of paying for a bearing conversion.
And you just wanted to fix a broken lug nut :-)
Larry
Going through all the trouble to take your axles apart and not change the poorly designed stock axles IS a big waste of time! Why do a half-a@# job?! 
Highway Star
[This message has been edited by Highway Star (edited 08-23-2003).]
Highway Star
[This message has been edited by Highway Star (edited 08-23-2003).]