ride quality

quote:

What is involved in taking off the suspention and replacing with a modern material? Will I need special tools? Will it affect ride quality?

Removing old rubber bushings is not easy. That will be the worst part. I think there is a article on this at Mike Dailey's http://www.panterplace.com site.

Just standard tools should be all you need.

Stock rubber replacements are available, but $$$. I have the graphite/poly bushings from Dennis Quella and have no squeaks nor a rough ride. Dennis's installation involves drilling and tapping for a zerk fitting at each bushing so you can continue to lube them as the years go by. You could do the same at home very easily; loose zerks are at any parts house.

I would suggest you look into sphere balls for the sway bar mounts on the a-arms(Quella has a new recessed bolt head style, or the tried and true units from Hall). These really free up the sway bars to work as intended. $50-$100 each at the vendors, you'll need four. And if you still have the stock steel strap bushing mounts for the four chassis mounting points for the sway bars, think about getting billet aluminum replacements. The stock steel strap units, especially the fronts, are well known to break. The same units are used on the a-arm mounts, but they don't seem to be the ones breaking. The billets are really not seen up front, but the rears hang out for all to see. Buy basic plain aluminum units and take the rear two to a local polisher; should cost no more than $20-$30 for the two. Cheaper than having the vendors polish them ;-)

A good winter project.

Larry

A full set of factory rubber a-arm bushes and sway bar bushes cost me £458 (that's roughly $800).
Ride quality is very good and copes with holes in the road.
They are easy to fit (though the polyurethane bushes are easier).
I replaced my poly bushes with rubber because I was sick of the squeaking (whoever fitted the poly bushes didn't lubricate them.) Also I had both front inner sway bar brackets snap and I reasoned that softer bushes would put less strain on the brackets.

I've given up a little handling for a comfortable ride (and maybe a big job in a few years renewing the rubber bushes).

Most of the guys seem to think I'm a little crazy for doing this .

Also, the price decision is different for me as I live very near the official DeTomaso dealer in the UK (only a hundred miles or so) and a long way from California - and the shipping and taxes to get parts here from the USA is $$$$$$

Bottomline, changing the bushings is not an easy or cheap job. All upper and lower A-arms will need to be removed completely from the car. This way the old busings can be removed and new ones pressed into place.

Getting the old busings out is a pain after 30 years of rusting into place. Most end up hack sawing the bushings metal sleeves and chisling out the remains.

OF course once the A-arms are out you will want to paint them. Afterwards the complete suspension will need to be re-assembled and aligned.

If your stock bushings are a little cracked, but there is still some rubber all around the center pivot and there is no movement you should be OK. You might take it to your alignment shop to see if the bushings are effecting your alignment. Always good to get a second opition before breaking out the big tools.

Bill,

the rubber bushings in your A arms are nearing 35 years of age. Although the exposed rubber is cracked & dry, the rubber that is bonded to the inner spacer & outer sheath may be intact, the bushing may be functionally fine, so long as nothing is loose or binding. However at that age I'm sure the rubber has hardened and the ride could be improved with installation of new parts.

The proper way to remove bushings is with a hydraulic press if you have one, most folks, like RoverLTD wrote, pound & hack them out. Save that job for a day when you need to work off some agression!

The poly bushings most people convert to, are a very poor design mechanically speaking. But there is a big savings in money. The secret to getting them to work is keeping them lubricated well, like Larry mentioned, and not overtightening them. A spacer through the middle that prevents overtightening would be a good addition to the design, if any vendors sell them that way.

If your current bushings are not loose or binding, then you could put up with what you have with the knowledge that it could be a bit more compliant with new parts; you could drop the bucks for new bushings and have a "like-new" ride, the ultimate in cushioned ride & noise isolation; or you could opt for the poly bushings for a ride that is compliant when greased well & not over-tightened, but the poly bushings will not provide the cushioning & noise isolation of the oem type bushings.

My upper control arms all pivot on spherical rod ends (aka heim joints). I do not think they are any more harsh riding than the poly bushings, but they are frictionless. One of my projects someday will be to install heim joints on the lower control arms as well. I like 'em!

your friend on the PIBB, George

I just replaced all my rear bushings with the poly type from Hall. They come with a metal spacer in the middle so they cannot be over tightened. Installation is easy once the old bushings are removed. That is the hard part but can be done if you take your time with standard hand tools.

Hello George,
Where did you get the heim joints for the control arms? How hard was the conversion? Thnaks, Vince

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bell:
I just replaced all my rear bushings with the poly type from Hall. They come with a metal spacer in the middle so they cannot be over tightened. Installation is easy once the old bushings are removed. That is the hard part but can be done if you take your time with standard hand tools.

did they come with grease zerks?

I think the zerks need to be installed into holes drilled and tapped into your A-arms, not the bushings themselves. George?

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
I think the zerks need to be installed into holes drilled and tapped into your A-arms, not the bushings themselves. George?

Mark is correct, the zerks need to be installed into holes drilled and tapped into your A-arms.

To help anyone curious understand the poly bushing installation, the eyelet in the end of the control arm pivots around the outside of the poly bushing, hence the grease needs application on the outside of the poly bushing, between it and the control arm eyelet.

Vince, my upper control arms were already modified when I purchased the car. The modification was part of an extensive suspension kit sold by one of the vendors, Collectors Choice, I beleive. The front upper control arms are modified oem arms, the rear upper control arms are all new units. The suspension has tons of camber adjustment, allowing my car to be lowered to the point that the front jacking point, the frame member behind the front wheel wells, is only 4" above the ground, a low profile "racer" jack just barely fits under the car. The heim joints are not as wide as the chassis mounting tabs, so by off-setting the spacing between the heim joints & the tabs the caster can also be adjusted.

I don't think the ride is any more harsh, or that any more noise is transmitted into the chassis, as compared to when using poly bushings. But the friction is nill, and there is no give in the joint, the suspension settings are very firm.

My source for things like heim joints, metal stock, fasteners, is McMaster - Carr Supply Company, they're on the net.

your friend on the PIBB, George

lpb,

If it's really not broke, why fix it? If they made noise, were sloppy, and alignment and handling were bad, then you've got a reason to change them. If they're just a little cracked around the edges and the car rides beautifully, why mess with it?

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:
lpb,

If it's really not broke, why fix it? If they made noise, were sloppy, and alignment and handling were bad, then you've got a reason to change them. If they're just a little cracked around the edges and the car rides beautifully, why mess with it?

Michael

Your right, It's just fun to talk about it. Easier too!