Should new A-Arm Bushings be lubed when installing?

It really depends on what poly bushings you buy. Some use a hexagonal shaft that is locked to the bushing by design so all the pivoting is done between bushing and the inside of the a-arm socket. Others use a bushing that can either pivit on the round central shaft OR the bushing pivots in the a-arm socket, or both (at various times). Stock rubber bushings don't pivot at all; instead, the rubber deflects in twisting, so adding poly bushings completely changes how the suspension works. So- once you figure out where the pivoting is occurring, you can intelligently figure out where the grease should go, rather than using the shotgun approach. Mine don't squeek, but if I eas to add grease, I'd use a waterproof type, maybe for boat trailers so it won't wash out (yes, I drive ine in the rain)

Jack,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the experince and wisdom (education for me). I was trying to get into the analytical details of how it would work compared to the old bushings. I couldn't figure them out either, but that makes sense. (Another Pantera Guy said his cat handled really tight like a race car after the bushings installation, so I can't wait!)

I'll call Hall Pantera and ask them, since that's where I got 'em. And they know everything, I'm finding out (as I was reading about them in PANTERAS FOR THE ROAD by Henry Rasmussen, 1982).

I'll also sandpaper any surface rust from the bolts, just to be safe. But, I'm certain they don't pivot there because 1) they told me 'you can't overtighten them' and 2) the bolts don't have wear. So, if I lube there, then it'll be for rust prevention, cause we can't help but go through water once in a while.

You don't think that waterproof boat grease would react with the polygraphite and break it down, like in a decomposing way, do you?

Oil can ruin some types of plastics (both share a hydrocarbon molecular structure & react together in some instances). This would be a question that requires either lab tests or experience I guess, so I'd prefer experience, and you guy have been around these machines for a long, long time.

Thanks again,
Ron

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Originally posted by ron norman:
Jack,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the experince and wisdom (education for me). I was trying to get into the analytical details of how it would work compared to the old bushings. I couldn't figure them out either, but that makes sense. (Another Pantera Guy said his cat handled really tight like a race car after the bushings installation, so I can't wait!)

I'll call Hall Pantera and ask them, since that's where I got 'em. And they know everything, I'm finding out (as I was reading about them in PANTERAS FOR THE ROAD by Henry Rasmussen, 1982).

I'll also sandpaper any surface rust from the bolts, just to be safe. But, I'm certain they don't pivot there because 1) they told me 'you can't overtighten them' and 2) the bolts don't have wear. So, if I lube there, then it'll be for rust prevention, cause we can't help but go through water once in a while.

You don't think that waterproof boat grease would react with the polygraphite and break it down, like in a decomposing way, do you?

Oil can ruin some types of plastics (both share a hydrocarbon molecular structure & react together in some instances). This would be a question that requires either lab tests or experience I guess, so I'd prefer experience, and you guy have been around these machines for a long, long time.

Thanks again,
Ron

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RON,
I HAVE ALWAYS USED ARMORAL ON MY POLY BUSHINGS FOR MY RACE CARS. IT IS ALSO GOOD TO CLEAN UP THE OUTSIDE FOR LOOKS. I JUST PUT THE POLYGRAPHITE ON MY FIREBIRD AUTOCROSS CAR AND AS JACK STATED THEY DO NO SQUEEK. I DON'T THINK THE ARMORAL WILL DAMAGE THEM AS THIS IS USED FOR ALMOST ALL SURFACES EXCEPT LEATHER. I FOUND IT CAN GET IN THE SMALL
CRACKS AND AGAIN STILL CLEAN THINGS UP

YOU MIGHT GIVE IT A TRY-BOB BENSON

Anti-Sieze compound can also be used.
This silver stuff won't come out of shirts, so be careful what you get it on.

Lube between the poly bushing and the a-arm.
As resistant to water as boat grease.

Chuck

Thanks BOB and Chuck,
This cat's going back together and going to be on the road no later than 7/27/03. Took her apart 6/27/03 and now I've got some good ideas how to do it right. Another Pantera Guy said his Pantera East polygraphite bushings came with a clear (probably silicone) grease. We sort of came to the conclusion that the "graphite" in the "polygraphite" was the intended lubricant, and that the Pantera East-supplied grease was for easier insertion into the A-arm holes. But how do I know, or anyone, whether the bushings are rotating only at the bolt sleeve to polygraphite surface or also at the A-Arm holes to bushings surface also (or only there)? But it's nice to know there'll be no squeeking. The old bushings were so tight in there that there was absolutely no corrosion on the A-arm hole surfaces, but there was light surface corrosion on the A-arm outer surfaces. And I presume the A-arm round, cylindrical holes are of the same metallurgy as the A-Arms, thus the possibilty of rust (unless one goes back to the original bushings set-up). So, I painted the inside of the A-arm holes. After the insight provided above, IMHO, any "grease" or Armoral will be to prevent ANY corrosion in the A-arm holes. I've seen cars on the side of the freeway with suspension members collapsed under the cars' wheel wells. Imagine THAT at 150 mph! So, I gotta decide what to do, and I really appreciate everyones' information and experience. Thanks for taking the time to respond, Jack, Bob and Chuck. - Ron

I ALWAYS have to do things three (3) times to get it right! I ALWAYS learn the hard way, so I'll just share my experiences so, hopefully, the next guy can learn from my mistakes.

I hung my front A-arms this evening and doggone if they didn't squeek! Of course, THEN, I open this folded 'tag' which says A-arms on the ouside from inside the bag these bushings came in. AFTER I got one lower front A-arm in. It squeeked, so I was looking for clues. It said, it's very important to 'grease' these bushings before installing them. Great. So, Mr. Detective, I watch and notice the rear part of the front bottom A-arm bushing is rotating at the sleeve/bushing surface and not squeeking, but the front front bottom A-arm bushing is rotating at the bushing/A-arm contact point. So I tighten these dudes up some more, still squeeking. So I pull them off after all the 1.5 hours it took me to get them in and hit them with Armoral. (There's some good news later, and I'm not complaining, but I just wish I was born with experience, so I don't have to keep learning the hard way, FOREVER!)

[Armoral may have worked fine, but the directions said grease and Armoral wasn't greasy enough for me, and the anti-seize stuff said corrosion inhibitor, so it was gonna be the silver stuff after-all.]

So, TO CUT CORNERS, I pulled the lower front front A-arm off and left it dangling by the rear bushing of the front A-arm, since that was the hardest to get in and wasn't squeeking anyways. The front half of the front bushing got Armoral, since the back half was not rotating and not squeeking. Got it back together in 45 minutes (that's good news, can always do the second one TWICE AS FAST!) Guess what? The back half of the lower front bushing on the front A-arm (lower A-arm) starts tuning in it's socket and starts SQUEEKING!

So then I pulled the same A-arm off again (3rd time) (not gonna do anything else 'til I get this right or sell it on the Jack Stands at a heavy loss!!) and I decided to try the anti-seize 'grease' you know the stuff that won't wash out and I don't wanna get on my hands. So back together again for the third (3rd) time. Finally, no squeeks. More good news: it went in this time in about 25 minutes!

I mentioned there was some good news, and I wasn't complaining, didn't I? Well, I got a used Snap-On Tools compressor and a set of air drive wrenches and accessories at Lowes hardware store today. Man, it's nice to have these things that mechanics have. Really cool! Made the whole experience a lot more fun. (I even cleaned out my garage with this little air gun thing. Scared the s**t out of the spiders as they blew across the street with their entire cob web assembly attached to them. Just like water, only I can wash the walls with this baby!)

So, I went on to the other side lower front A-arm installation and got it down to about 20 minutes. The top front A-arms took about 20 minutes for the first one and 10 minutes for the second one. Much easier.

AND NOW: SOME TIPS > SO YOU CAN DO THIS EASIER THAN ME!

1) Read the instructions 1st.
2) The narrower bushing goes on the inside and the thicker one goes on the outside. They are paired this way, and it's for front and rear axles, consistent. These bushings are a little wider than the original bushings.
3) The upper front A-arms are easier than the lower A-arm bushings. I did the lowers 1st. Tip 1: Grease these bushings with Anti-seize compound. Slip them in the A-arm sockets (and go wash your hands or the beautiful paint job you finished last week is gonna get dirty). Tip 2: go to your socket set and get a couple of tiny (1/4" drive) deep sockets, 8mm and 7mm (these are smaller and very close to the diameter of the bolt, respectively). When you get the A-arms close to the hole with the sleeve, where the bolt is gonna go through, like you've pried it close with a phillips screwdriver, then slip the 7mm socket in the OUTSIDE hole. Work the A-arm around (I used a very small block of wood under the back of the rear top A-arm to get it closer, prying with a claw hammer on the 7mm socket pushed in like a bolt, then, when things start to get close, push the 8mm in and get the 7mm out. I used another 8mm 1/4" deep socket to align the opposite side and get my bolt hole pretty close to perfect. Then pull the INSIDE deep 8mm socket out and push the bolt in. I had to use my air ratchet to screw the bolt through once it was started in the sleeve. Tip 3: which should be tip 2, do the lower front A-arm bolt procedure first, 'cause it is easier and sets up the A-arm for the rear front lower bushing procedure in tip 2 above. Tip 4: Have all your screwdrivers ready to help pry the sleeve into alignment, so you can get a socket or the bolt in there. Tip 5: Close the garage door, so ladies walking their dogs by on the sidewalk don't hear your colorful language, & Tip 6: have a lot of rags ready to wipe your hands on, wipe the sweat from your forehead with, and clean your A-arms and bushings with after they are in. Oh yeah, Tip 7. Use the Anti-seize silver stuff on the inside of the A-arm holes and the inside of the A-arm mounting supports attached to the fender well of the car as well as on the outside of the sleeve, the inside of the bushing, the outside of the bushing and both ends of the bushing. Basically, everwhere but the fender well itself. And keep a lot of rags handy, I repeat.

The bushings that do not rotate on the bolt have metal hex sleeves through them. If the outside of the sleeve is round, the rotation is in both places.

FWIW, some vendors sell offset poly-bushings for more caster. These poly-bushings will have thicker flanges on one bushing of each pair, to force the a-arms to mount off-line a little. This is worth doing, as IMHO the Pantera has far too little caster for the speeds it can attain, even if the adjustment shims are maximized. And as our friend Ron says, ' read the directions' before adding these asymmetric bushings, or your handling will be dangerously "different"....

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Originally posted by jack deryke:
FWIW, some vendors sell offset poly-bushings for more caster. These poly-bushings will have thicker flanges on one bushing of each pair, to force the a-arms to mount off-line a little. This is worth doing, as IMHO the Pantera has far too little caster for the speeds it can attain, even if the adjustment shims are maximized. And as our friend Ron says, ' read the directions' before adding these asymmetric bushings, or your handling will be dangerously "different"....

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Jack, my shims are already maximized, and I'd be interested to learn more about these assymetric bushings. Can you refer a vendor who has these? It would be easy to install them compared to replacing the original bushings, and factoring in my 'learning curve experience' I could probably get them in in about 15 minutes, while she's torn down. I'd eat some cost for some brand new unused bushings (8) that could go in the parts bin, but it may be a better way to go and help fix the bump steer. I'd sorta like to know soon, so I can stop putting the front suspension back together and just do the back, and not go off schedule too much. Thanks.

I can tell you a funny story about learning the hard way... So I bought this Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold, all highly polished, for a great price from a great Pantera Guy. When I get it and look at it, it looks exactly like the intake manifold I've got on the cat already! So I check the photos in Hall's catalog. Da**, I've already got an Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold on her. So, mine, the installed one, looks exactly the same, only like it was polished 30 years ago never since, and looks really smooth, but grey/aluminum color. So, do you think it can be polished up with this new Mother's Aluminum polish I have? Were/are the unpolished Edelbrock Intake Manifolds all smooth or a little rougher, like a cast aluminum finish? Does it sound like I have an unpolished or polished, but tarnished Edelbrock intake on there now?

I told you guys I ALWAYS learn the hard way! Thanks for a little insight here, I'm thinking I can just eat a little transaction cost, and recoup some money. Just put the shiny one on and polish the 'old' intake after it's off the Pantera. I shoulda known: the Hall 'dress-up kit' includes an Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold, and since my cat has all the other dress-up parts, well, I shoulda looked a little closer at the photo. Maybe time for a magnifying glass or some reading glasses or bifocals!