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What a day

devildevilMember
So I took the Pantera out today to go to a BBQ/Car Show. Well I never made it. I was coming up to a stop and the idle just dropped off. I turn the key the engine would start and just dies out. I called my buddy to come help me out. As I waited for him to get there I check the fuel pressure and found very little to no pressure. When my buddy got there we adjusted the fuel pressure so I could get a high reading on the gauge in hope to keep the engine running. Well it work and keep the engine running just long enough to drive the car 50 feet to a side street. Then my buddy went to get a tow strap. When he got back we towed the car about 5 to 6 miles. So now the car is home. I will test the voltage to the pump but I am sure the pump went bad it just does not sound right.
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marlinjackmarlinjackThe Machinist #5723 AMARGOSA MACHINE 'Running on Empty- Middle of Nowhere'
...I had a 'WalBro' pump fail on Me, once, in a different Car. It was the Aluminum Body 'Recipricating' Style. The Rubber Diaphram had ruptured. Make sure You have the Fuel Filter AFTER the Pump and NOT BEFORE!!
'Filter Before the Pump'; makes it more Difficult for Atmospheric Pressure to FEED the pump! The Pump does NOT creat a Vacuum, it merely Provides a 'Void' and Creats a 'FLOW'!! For those who Never took a Hydraulics Course!
'Pressure' is created when we start to Restrict that Flow. That is why a 'Layman' thinks His Pump is Not working,(and I'am NOT speaking of THIS Case) when they put a Pressure Gauge on the Output of a Working Pump, and the Gauge reads '0' ZERO Pounds!! Because the Flow is Not Restricted!

By the way... Your Fuel Tank is VENTED, Right!

NOW, in the Pantera, I use a Holley Electric with a Regulater.
devildevilMember
So the pump signal and ground are all good. So I order a new pump. Well today I went to change the pump. When I remove the fuel line expecting fuel to pour out very little was flowing. When I open the fuel filter I found small to very small silicone in the filter. Well my dumbass was not thinking and blew air back into the tank through the supply line Frowner great now the fuel is flowing again but i blew the silicone that was stuck in the line back into the tank..! Ahhhh I hate when I do something so dumb..! So I drain the tank and just small amount of silicone came out of the tank. So now what I keep putting fuel in and draining it out but with very little success. I think the silicone come from the tank fill extension. When I removed it I remember seeing silicone around the base. I thought I did not let any fall into the tank be I think I might be wrong Frowner When I reinstall I used a gasket.
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
Mark,

I hope others will chime in in case this is not the best advice, but if it were me, and removing the tank is obviously not an option, I would:

• Temporarily put a fuel filter between the pick-up and pump for a tank or two. I know that's not ideal, but a large diameter filter won't impede flow that much but it will trap whatever crap is getting stuck in the pump. Glass ones are great because you can see the crud.

• Consider draining all the fuel and washing out the tank with water (completely fill and drain) and then doing a final "rinse" with gas (which is disposed of later (could even be filtered fuel that you drained originally). Then let it dry as long as possible — perhaps aided by an air line dropped in to increase circulation.

I don't know any other methods. Obviously when fuel vapors are present you need to be really cautious about using any spark-producing tools to aid in the tasks.

I hope you get it resolved soon.

Mark

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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
Glass ones are great because you can see the crud.

Eeker

No, NO, NOOO!!!

Glass has no place in a fuel system.

Repeat after me -

Glass is breakable. Glass is breakable....

If you want to make sure your filter is not filled up with crud, spend another $10 and buy a new metal case filter.

My most sincere advice for all of you with this style of glass filter on any of your cars:

Replace them NOW- TODAY before you fully, but sadly, understand why they are a terrible idea.

Larry

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devildevilMember
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
Mark,

I hope others will chime in in case this is not the best advice, but if it were me, and removing the tank is obviously not an option, I would:

• Temporarily put a fuel filter between the pick-up and pump for a tank or two. I know that's not ideal, but a large diameter filter won't impede flow that much but it will trap whatever crap is getting stuck in the pump. Glass ones are great because you can see the crud.

• Consider draining all the fuel and washing out the tank with water (completely fill and drain) and then doing a final "rinse" with gas (which is disposed of later (could even be filtered fuel that you drained originally). Then let it dry as long as possible — perhaps aided by an air line dropped in to increase circulation.

I don't know any other methods. Obviously when fuel vapors are present you need to be really cautious about using any spark-producing tools to aid in the tasks.

I hope you get it resolved soon.

Mark


Yeah Mark I agree, I really don't want to remove the tank.

So I think most of you know but if not I am running a EFI system. I already have a high flow fuel filter before the pump and after the pump. The clog was in the line at the bottom of the tank before the filter. So today I remove the fuel level sending unit and fuel full extension from the top of the tank. I can see 90% inside the tank by looking with a light and using a borescope. I did not see anything. I used a lint free rag on a stick to wipe the bottom of the tank. Only to find it picked up small bits of sediment. I just can't see what clogged the line in the first place.
devildevilMember
quote:
Originally posted by #5754:

Devil, glad to hear you're getting the fuel tank cleaned out, hopefully you'll be back on the road soon! Sure would be nice to know where that garbage came from though.


So the fuel tank is clean out and now drying out. I been looking around and the seaweed looking thing I think is the filter for the fuel tank vent. It fits into the vent housing but falls right out with a little shake.

The fish looking thing I think is a drip/run from the tank spray liner. I looked all around in the tank and there are no more looking runs and the liner is still intact.
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
No, NO, NOOO!!!
Glass has no place in a fuel system.
Repeat after me - Glass is breakable. Glass is breakable....

If you want to make sure your filter is not filled up with crud, spend another $10 and buy a new metal case filter.

My most sincere advice for all of you with this style of glass filter on any of your cars:

Replace them NOW- TODAY before you fully, but sadly, understand why they are a terrible idea.

Larry


Larry,

I have glass fuel filters in my GT40. So do hundreds of other GT40s. Original cars had them. Other cars had them. During those times when the glass isn't broken spewing fuel everywhere, the glass does do a better job of allowing one to see how gunky the fuel is. (at least until they come out with that transparent titanium stuff they have in Star Trek)

I agree that in a crash they are not ideal, but most of these cars are a fire-ball waiting to happen anyway, so what's a bit more fuel to the flame? Wink I agree there is breakage potential, but the glass is quite thick, might even be tempered and has a metal cage around it in many instances. Mine are mounted on the firewall with lots of structure around them.

This photo if from an original GT40. It survives to this day with a glass filter (although I wouldn't want mine THAT close to the headers).

Mark

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markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Mark,

Just because something works, doesn't mean it is safe.....


Larry,

"Safe" is a range. Wink

If I was REALLY concerned about safety, I wouldn't ever drive my Pantera OR my GT40. Have you seen what happens when you crash these things? It is pretty ugly most of the time. If I was ever in a crash that was bad enough to break my glass fuel filters, I wouldn't likely survive to talk about it afterwards. That said, I agree that you are making a good point. I'm just playing Satan's advocate (I always wanted to be a lawyer).

Mark
marlinjackmarlinjackThe Machinist #5723 AMARGOSA MACHINE 'Running on Empty- Middle of Nowhere'
...I'am With Larry!! I've Warned People about those Damn Glass Filters for Years. I'am done telling the Horror Stories. You want to make jokes, be Funny, Making Excuses! Your on Borrowed time!! And You'll learn the Joke is On You! Stupid is That Stupid Does!! So wake Up and Get Your Head Out Of Your ASS!! Or I'll be Pointing at YOU and Laughing! Saying We Told You So!!...
accobraaccobraMember
Autoparts are like Plumbing parts just because they sell them over the counter its assumed they are legal. A glass filter is all bling. The proper way to check a filter with no sight glass is with guages .. obviously when the pressure drops the filter is dirty. Otherwise the only option is everytime you do a tune up change the filter.

We beat the filter before the pump to death .. the restriction in a gravity system is a given no no. A strainer for large chunks to protect the pump is a common pump set up in every industry.

An electric pump is dangerous and a waste. Dangerous because it will be pumping away while your upside down or on your side. They make mechanical pumps that pump far more fuel then we will ever need.

My 2 cents ... and watch the UNION JOKES ... LOL

Ron
4nhotrod4nhotrodHe who dies with the most toys is dead
...I'am With Larry!! I've Warned People about those Damn Glass Filters for Years. I'am done telling the Horror Stories. You want to make jokes, be Funny, Making Excuses! Your on Borrowed time!! And You'll learn the Joke is On You! Stupid is That Stupid Does!! So wake Up and Get Your Head Out Of Your ASS!! Or I'll be Pointing at YOU and Laughing! Saying We Told You So!!...

Marlin

Marlin, I have to ask...were you ever a drill sergeant in the marines?
Will
Last edited by 4nhotrod
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
An electric pump is dangerous and a waste. Dangerous because it will be pumping away while your upside down or on your side. They make mechanical pumps that pump far more fuel then we will ever need.


I don't know about any nowadays car still running a mechanical pump though...(maybe in the US?). And these days those running an electrical one, are all provided of a "shock switch" which in case of an accident automatically kills the pump (and eventually stop the engine). Easy to install afterwards too, such a switch.
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