Does anyone know what the benefit of an 8 into 1 (360 exhaust?) is?
What does it sound like?
Michael
very nice george ..yes those are the babies ..8 into 1 ... the sound must be awsome and very smooth.
Brooke very nice also as I am a big fan of stainless .. do you have a pic of your 180's.
Ron
Brooke very nice also as I am a big fan of stainless .. do you have a pic of your 180's.
Ron
I'm no engineer but I would guess the uniform back pressure on all eight cylinders being even would be a possitive impact and the length of the pipes being of equal length ... into one large tube ... I would also think the sizing of the primaries dumping into the proper;y sized collector all plays a significant part. The real key would be to see test results...which probably could be found on the GT40 sight...I will do my homework.
Keep us posted, Ron. I'm interested in your findings.
Michael
Michael
quote:Originally posted by Cyboman:
... 8 into 1 (360 exhaust?) ... What does it sound like ...
Bjorn Carapi's Pantera on You Tube
Thanks, George. I like the way it sounds.
Michael
Michael
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
very nice george ..yes those are the babies ..8 into 1 ... the sound must be awsome and very smooth.
Brooke very nice also as I am a big fan of stainless .. do you have a pic of your 180's.
Ron
The 8 into 1 that I heard sounded quite a bit like an Indy car from a distance. It had even more of a whine then the GT40's do.
I love stainless too. I had bought a tubing bender to make my own stainless headers only to find that it is very, very difficult to bend smoothly without crimping it. I got disgusted with the project, sold the bender and dumped about $1,000 worth of tubing in the garbage.
Not long after that I saw an original factory GT4 car with factory built stainless headers and guess what? The tubes were all crimped like mine because the stuff just doesn't stretch on the outside of the radius and it wrinkles on the inside because you can't compress it there.
I still can't figure on how to make a 3" radius bend in the stuff without destroying the tube.
It was a car that George Stauffer owned and I think was racing at the time.
You can't gas weld the stuff either. At least I couldn't. All I was stuck with was stick welding and a stainless rod can be almost as tough as an aluminum rod to make the molten rod flow and puddle correctly. It makes a ton of carbon slag which means you have to flow the entire weld around the entire tube in one shot. Tough to say the least.
Doug couple of tricks to this fabrication.
Bending 1 1/2" tubing in a tight radius requires filling say a 48" piece with sand and then putting a few bends in it the sand prevents crimping. 3" would be a tight radius.
Welding stainless real nice requires a TIG .. but I was real surprised last week .. I bought .023 real thin wire for my Miller 120V mig and TRI gas Co2 argon and helium and made a 38' Stainless steel trench drain grate ..came out real nice in a very difficult enviroment.
The trick to welding and making it look like a continuous weld ..is to restart your weld 1/4" after the other ended then go back to the end and continue it ... very hard to say the least on small radius pipes ... thats why I prefer like 8" steel ... LOL can I use 8" on headers .. the welds would be perfect ? LOL
The problem with Stainless is its very brittle and headers will crack near the welds on headers.
We will see if I get real ambishous ... I will try it ... maybe with a little heavier pipe in SS.
Ron
Bending 1 1/2" tubing in a tight radius requires filling say a 48" piece with sand and then putting a few bends in it the sand prevents crimping. 3" would be a tight radius.
Welding stainless real nice requires a TIG .. but I was real surprised last week .. I bought .023 real thin wire for my Miller 120V mig and TRI gas Co2 argon and helium and made a 38' Stainless steel trench drain grate ..came out real nice in a very difficult enviroment.
The trick to welding and making it look like a continuous weld ..is to restart your weld 1/4" after the other ended then go back to the end and continue it ... very hard to say the least on small radius pipes ... thats why I prefer like 8" steel ... LOL can I use 8" on headers .. the welds would be perfect ? LOL
The problem with Stainless is its very brittle and headers will crack near the welds on headers.
We will see if I get real ambishous ... I will try it ... maybe with a little heavier pipe in SS.
Ron
George ..thanks ... thats it real nice sound thats what I;m looking for ... I wonder if we could contact BJORN to get a few pics ?
Ron
Ron
This is my favorite one of all. It makes the Ferrari sound kind of dull and the fans enjoy it too.
8 into 1 using a BMW 540 engine, does anyone know the muffler that is used???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoPyDD7wGiQ
8 into 1 using a BMW 540 engine, does anyone know the muffler that is used???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoPyDD7wGiQ
Could you imagine setting up a race track on your street here in the USA ???
R
R
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
Could you imagine setting up a race track on your street here in the USA ???
R
So the fast and the furious ain't giving us a realistic picture of the us?
you can see some of the headers of the bmw pantera here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT7VaKgMETA&feature=related
Ron. The point is stainless headers are really a nightmare to make. I have absolutely no problem welding ss plate with 304 stick electrodes BUT THAT AIN'T TUBE!
The secret to stainless headers is to find the right alloy. I was using 304, .049 wall. Very expensive tubing. Next to impossible to bend smoothly. 409 is used regularly today and bends really well in the normal Midas muffler tubing bender. But it also surface rusts.
Yes, 304 sure will work harden from the heat and crack.
Conclusion? Make the headers from aluminumized steel and cerma-coat them.
The secret to stainless headers is to find the right alloy. I was using 304, .049 wall. Very expensive tubing. Next to impossible to bend smoothly. 409 is used regularly today and bends really well in the normal Midas muffler tubing bender. But it also surface rusts.
Yes, 304 sure will work harden from the heat and crack.
Conclusion? Make the headers from aluminumized steel and cerma-coat them.
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
very nice george ..yes those are the babies ..8 into 1 ... the sound must be awsome and very smooth.
Brooke very nice also as I am a big fan of stainless .. do you have a pic of your 180's.
Ron
Ron, I made my 180's out of mild steel. I'm not very good at welding stainless.
Pics of my headers are in my build thread.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/7650030665/p/1
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Ron. The point is stainless headers are really a nightmare to make. I have absolutely no problem welding ss plate with 304 stick electrodes BUT THAT AIN'T TUBE!
The secret to stainless headers is to find the right alloy. I was using 304, .049 wall. Very expensive tubing. Next to impossible to bend smoothly. 409 is used regularly today and bends really well in the normal Midas muffler tubing bender. But it also surface rusts.
Yes, 304 sure will work harden from the heat and crack.
Conclusion? Make the headers from aluminumized steel and cerma-coat them.
Doug,
Mandrel bent U and J bends are available in stainless for a number of sizes.I have seen them and the bends are very nice. They are pricey though.
I don't like using aluminized pipe because of the extra step of sanding off the coating at the joint to keep from contaminating the weld. It likes to stick to the tungsten and cause bubbling.
I have used them and they are cheap, just more work. My $.02
These guys are awesome...
http://www.burnsstainless.com/
http://www.burnsstainless.com/
This company makes Merge Collectors in any configuration.
There is a pic of their 8-1 collector on page 6.
Pretty wild looking.
http://www.spdexhaust.com/pdfs/02-11_Merge_Collectors.pdf
There is a pic of their 8-1 collector on page 6.
Pretty wild looking.
http://www.spdexhaust.com/pdfs/02-11_Merge_Collectors.pdf
As George and others mentioned, the point of 180s is to get a ram-tuned torque-increase in the mid-rpm range of whatever gearing you run. The drawback of all 180s is extra weight (sometimes 2X), much more radiated heat in an area not suited for it, loss or at least complication in running A/C and a trunk tub, much poorer service-ability for the engine and last but not least- a LOSS of top end torque due to gas friction in those long, long pipes. One SS runner reported a loss of 250 rpms on the top end, which disappeared when he went to a pair of 4-into-1s. Point is, engines are a coordinated assembly and throwing parts not suited for the combination or use you have, onto a motor often reduces its performance in some way. Louvering the decklid and not running a tub at all helps exhaust the massive heat, but your lady-friend will be less enthusiastic carrying a weekends worth of luggage on her lap. As for damaging paint, one car I used to autocross with a set of 180s got a fresh paint job, and a week later BOILED and CHARRED two gallon-can-sized spots on the deck in a 35 mile @ 55mph cruise. Always use a BIG heat shield with stand-offs between the pipes & decklid. An unshielded fiberglas or carbon-fiber decklid might catch on fire....
My 180's are ceramic coated (inside and out) and haven't damaged my engine bay/deck paint.
They do have negatives for working on the engine though. For example, they must be unbolted to get the valve covers off (Precision Proformance headers). You can't get near the engine until they cool down or you'll get some ugly burns on your hands and forearms.
Changing plugs takes about an hour instead of 20minutes. Wires have to be properly routed or they'll burn up.
Will
They do have negatives for working on the engine though. For example, they must be unbolted to get the valve covers off (Precision Proformance headers). You can't get near the engine until they cool down or you'll get some ugly burns on your hands and forearms.
Changing plugs takes about an hour instead of 20minutes. Wires have to be properly routed or they'll burn up.
Will
To me the benefits far out way the drawbacks. For one thing it is worth the money just to pop the trunk and see every ones faces.
Especially when they just heard the car screaming and there is a line to see what is under the hood.
When you tell them that it is just a Ford in there the eyes are just glazed over in disbelief. I just love to do that.
Of course if I need this car for everyday transportation that would be a different story. Of course I can think of about a million other cars to use for that instead.
Everything depends on your own personal perspective. The genius of the Pantera design occurs to me just about everyday that I look at it and it's the genius of the design that permits things like 180 headers to exist in it.
Not too shabby Tom.
Especially when they just heard the car screaming and there is a line to see what is under the hood.
When you tell them that it is just a Ford in there the eyes are just glazed over in disbelief. I just love to do that.
Of course if I need this car for everyday transportation that would be a different story. Of course I can think of about a million other cars to use for that instead.
Everything depends on your own personal perspective. The genius of the Pantera design occurs to me just about everyday that I look at it and it's the genius of the design that permits things like 180 headers to exist in it.
Not too shabby Tom.
http://media.putfile.com/Pantera-Sound
Here is a clip of another nice sounding motor/exhaust. Notice the bay brace is missing? You don't really need it though, right?
Does anyone recognize this Canadian car?
Will
Here is a clip of another nice sounding motor/exhaust. Notice the bay brace is missing? You don't really need it though, right?
Does anyone recognize this Canadian car?
Will
A yellow Quebec car? I looked at his other video but am not familiar with "putfile." Can anyone fiure out who gnxdawg is?