18,000 RPM

How about a 16,000 rpm red line for about $9000, significantly cheaper than a F1 car?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelvideo/8/301/0/video.aspx

All I can say is WOW, TOTALLY IMPRESSIVE!

George what do they put in them engines that makes them spin so high? Do they have valves in the heads that go back and forth like a regular engine? Do they have roller bearings for mains and conn rods? What keeps them from shaking apart?

Someone, I think Cosworth, was over 20k rpm. Its dang impressive to watch an F1 car.

Gee, maybe Coz was right after all.



Mighty impressive. Thanks DEEB.

I have some nice 18000 rpm from my trip to Barcelona last year .. but not sure how to post my video here ??? any help

Ron

Post it on Youtube and then post a link.

http://www.youtube.com/

Detom ... the blocks are alloy .. the crak rods pistons are light wieght and they use alternate materials .... and probably overhead cams .. my best guess.

From what I understand the modern F1 engine has electrically actuated valves - no rockers, no cams.

COOOOOLL thanks for the YOUTUBE ...Mark

Here it is ..and boy does this bring back memories .. all I can say is barcelona is a party town and the HOTEST women I ahve ever seen ... ok back to the car 18000 rpm video .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVZd1VePaKs

Ok one more for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5gUODJ01Qg

Very cool. I had a plan to visit every track, but I'm not feelin some of the newer locations.

quote:

Originally posted by deeb:
...From what I understand the modern F1 engine has electrically actuated valves - no rockers, no cams...

BMW is working on that technology, but its not used in F1 yet. They were supposed to start using it in their road cars, but it hasn't proven reliable enough "yet". I doubt that electrically actuated valves will operate at 18000 rpm. Its a groovy technology if they can perfect it. Once the valves are electrically operated, the Engine Management System can operate the lift, duration & phasing of the valves at the ideal values for each rpm, thereby maximizing power output. AND, the speed of the motor can be controlled by camshaft lift, duration & phasing therefore eliminating the need for throttle butterflies. With the throttle butterflies out of the picture, the intake manifold no longer operates under a vacuum, but at atmospheric pressure, therefore the cylinders fill much better at lower rpm, torque production is vastly superior. Drag on the motor is reduced, efficiency is improved. More power yet!

The F1 cars use pneumatic operated valves (fed by an on-board bottle of nitrogen) in place of springs. Its the springs that are the limiting factor in the rpm of a valve train. The springs heat up and fail. And they oscillate at a certain frequency. another factor is piston speed, so F1 cars will tend to have short strokes and large bores, depending upon the displacement and number of cylinders dictated by the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
...George what do they put in them engines that makes them spin so high? Do they have valves in the heads that go back and forth like a regular engine? Do they have roller bearings for mains and conn rods? What keeps them from shaking apart...

On the other hand, Yamaha's YZ-F6 uses dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, titanium valves and conventional springs. Yet they manage a 16,000 rpm red line. Truly awesome.

DeTom I'm not sure what the bottom end of one of their new motors looks like, having never seen one opened up.

George

Here is Cosworth's test from last year at 20,000 rpm on their F1 engine:

Cosworth test

And the story behind it:
Press Release

Great story Andy!

Thanks Andy!

I love the sound of an engine running high rpm like that.

Here's God save the queen played on a Renault F1 engine. Goodwood festival of speed 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JPBdBIFGNQ&mode=related&search=

quote:

DeTom I'm not sure what the bottom end of one of their new motors looks like, having never seen one opened up.

Sounds to me like, from what I am reading here, they take money and compress it into the form of an engine. Maybe like ten bucks per RPM.

All that I know is that it is amazing that those engines hold together at that kind of RPM.
WOW!

There is nothing like the start of an F1 race with all the cars screaming by. Just awesome. I'm sure MotoGP is as impressive. Everyone with interest should hit Indy one year. It isn't that expensive, even if it isn't a great track.

Power/revs/torque is always a trade-off.

Revs produce hp. But not necessarily torque.

High revs is mostly down to managing inertia. Long stroke crank means that more weight is away from the bottom end causing more forces on the bottom end. Long crank also means that the con rods have to work at more of an angle – more movement, more inertia, more force – especially side force which means that you want a deep skirt piston to stop it skewing in the bores. Thus, long stroke means heavier piston, so more stop/go forces on the rods and crank.

Short stroke gives less force on bottom end – but bigger bore gives heavier piston, and more difficulties with scavenging. Higher revs also mean that the piston oscillates (accelerates and decelerates) more often – causing more stop/go forces on the rods and crank.

Too big a bore/short a stroke gives the possibility that the combustion explosion will still be happening when the piston starts the next upstroke.

In the Valve train, single valves actually flow individually better than multi valves, but a single valve has a lot of weight going back and fore with only one (maybe duplex) valve spring. Multi valves have lighter valves with a valve spring each – hence, higher rev capability before valve bounce.

BTW, engine configuration plays quite a part too. V8’s are “inherently out of balance” which produces the V8 “rumble” Straight 6’s are in balance, and v12’s even better – but this gives a longer crank which is more susceptible to whip and wind up – V engines also have smaller bottom end bearings due to space constraints.

So, for big revs you need:
Short stroke crank/Lightweight pistons and rods (Ratio designed exactly for the required rev capability)

Lightweight multivalves with strong valvesprings (I’m a great exponent of the Cross rotary valve system here)

Engine “in balance” with large bottom end bearings and short crank

It goes without saying that the materials chosen play a huge part too.

And I haven’t mentioned high compression ratio and high octane fuel…..

Phil

Here's a pic of a renault piston to show what Phil describes. Hard to tell the scale, to show how small this really is. There is another picture out there with a pencil in it for reference but I couldn't find it. Still, you can see the short skirt, low mass and relatively big bore to achieve the high revs.

And one more of a Ferrari crank. This one is from the year 2000 V10.