This car was for sale maybe 18 months ago in London, ON and listed for some time @ $55K. It caught my eye when I first started looking for a P car seriously (i.e. finally had some cash in hand, but sadly still not enough for that one).

I had contact with a guy (can't rememebr his name) on this board who also knew of its pending sale back late last year. I guess it was never seriously advertised until now.

All I can say is it appears to be a very nice and almost original car.

Julian
The car, #9195, was previously owned by Mario Malizia from London, Ontario. It was for sale on the PI Web site for some time at $59,000 USD. The current owner is Jonathan Mastromattei from Ottawa, Ontario.

Mark Charlton and "Deeb" will both have seen this car in person. If anyone is serious about buying this car, I suggest contacting Mark or "Deeb" and asking if they will give you an opinion.

Recent photos of this car were posted in the Canadian section of the PI BB at:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1550045562/m/3000076224/r/#

From what is possible to determine from the photos I have collected of this car, I would say the condition is pretty good. The wheels appear to have been re-painted since a photo I have of the car from last year was taken. Given the condition of the wheels at that time, I would be asking the owner if they had been properly stress-relieved and powder coated, and not just painted with enamel. Another thing to note is that the car is still running Pirelli P7s which will likely be too old to be safe.

Judging by the serial number, there may be some debate as to whether this is a 1983 or a 1982 model year. Malizia had advertised it as a 1983, and Mastromattei advertises it is a 1982. I believe it has to be a 1982 because I have a record of five 1982 Panteras with a higher chassis number.

At $65,000 USD, it's a pretty low price for an increasingly rare near-stock GT5, in my opinion.
393boss:

I almost purchased this car about a 1.5 years ago. The car has some rust issues in the lower door jam area, and in addition the owner really knows nothing about the previous history other than he purchased it from a person who owned a body shop.
The motor is not stock, and the front bumper needs attention. There are stress cracks on the fenders and the lower facia (where the driving lights are mounted.
When I discussed the purchase, it was priced I believe at $65K.

Hopes this helps in your quest for that ultimate p-car

Wayne
393Boss,

The white '84 was for sale mid 2005 when I was looking, so I think the ad is likely now out of date. At that same time the Red '83 was for sale in London, ON at $55K, so I think these two cars were comparably priced at that point.

I believe prices have moved upward substantially since then, so I think you likely need to make a comparison to what is available and on the market now.

For example;

PI has a pristine example ’87 GT5 for sale at $80K

PI sold a Yellow GT5 conversion earlier this year that was advertised at $62K

There was a GT5 at John Scotti Automotive, Toronto late last year for CAD$79,500.

So in comparison an 83 GT5 priced at $65K looks a good buy, plus you have the added advantage it is already in Canada and a private sale (No GST?). I think late Canadian cars will always fetch a premium in Canada over similar US cars simply for the ‘no hassle’ factor associated with importation.

If I was looking for a late car I think the GT5-S represents a good buy at the moment, PI has two such vehicles advertised at present;

87 GT5-S at $83K
83 GT5-S conversion at $75K

The latter I saw on display at the POCA Las Vegas track event, when it was $100K, at the reduced price I would consider a steal, providing you have no smog laws to deal with.

Good luck,
Julian
393boss:

If you are in the market for a GT5, check out the silver 1982 that is still for sale at John Scotti's in Montreal (not Toronto as stated in the previous post):

http://www.johnscotti.com/pages/main_exotics.html

"Deeb", who lives in Montreal, and who participates on this site, has seen the car and may be willing to provide you with his opinion.

If you want more photos of the car than are available on the Scotti web site, I can send you some. I spoke with the salesman who told me it has a fresh engine, and the paint is recent too. I don't recall exactly what the price was that he quoted me, but I do recall thinking it was very reasonable for an increasingly rare good condition, stock GT5 with a newly rebuilt motor. Since they have had it for a long time now, I would guess they would be willing to negotiate the price down.

This car was one of about 10 that Scotti imported into Canada during the early 1980s, and they are very familiar with it because they have resold it a number of times. This means they can provide you with the car's provenance.

- Peter

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Thanks for the replys guys. I spoke with a salesman today at Scotti about that car but as soon as he told me the car had a rebuilt engine (why) and new paint (why) on a 50,000 KM car, being that I am a bodyman and have been in the used car business for many years makes me wonder about this car and that it's price is to high. Not sure if I should be looking at cars of this type (year is not important to me) I guess because of what I want in the end... build or buy? lol

The more I am thinking now... if I am looking at spending this kind of coin on a "stock type" (engine/chassis) car (which I am not), I would be better off to spend a bit more and just try to make a deal on something like this one... seems like more bang for the buck to me, wonder if he would let it go for 70,000

http://www.panteracars.com/5192006FT.htm
393BOSS,

If I was looking for a later model car, that's the one I'd be most interested in. Apparently the owner Fred Terry is well known and highly respected in Pantera circles.

Hey, consider this; if you wanted that car a couple years ago US$80K would have cost you something like CAD$110K, but as exchange rates stand now it's a mere CAD$88K! Big Grin

I'd say that it looks a BARGAIN against the John Scotti car (of which I stand corrected, not in Toronto, but in Montreal; Hey all I know is it's North of the border and they got funnier accents in Montreal Big Grin)

I shouldn't joke, the day fast approacheth when I'm gonna have to move up to Calgary, but the P car is coming for sure. I guess it's just gonna be a shorter cruisin' season (or on the glass is half full side) more winter down time for mods & Buttery Nipples .

Julian
Looking into these cars now, I am just trying to get a handle on pricing/value. Something seems odd/wrong to me that upgraded cars seem to be worth less than a stocker, that dones not seem right. example...

$71,000 usd for this
http://www.johnscotti.com/pages/main_exotics.html

or $75,000 usd for this
http://www.pim.net/3242006BlkGT5S.html

another example

$65,000 for this
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/detomas...tera_gt5/186269.html

or for just over 10,000 more this
http://www.panteracars.com/122705SR.htm

if you bought either of the canadian cars and tryed to upgrade them to anywhere close to the other two and person could spend a TON! more money then you may never get out of them. something seems retarded in all of this or is this an issue only with canadian cars?, seems to me it's not worth buying canadian cars?... USA cars = more bang for the buck.
Well I found another CND car that does not seem to be a deal compared to most usa cars... 81 gt5

http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/

I called them, they want 67,000 usd, dealer said its basicly stock, I mentioned to the salesman about the Scotti car and he said they have had that car forever... maybe these guys don't really want to sell these things?. With the CND doller being as good as it is and only going to get better, I think these canadian guys are sleeping at the wheelSmiler
I know all these cars well. The yellow one is an older car conversion. The others are legit GT5 models.

I woulod be happy to help you get a deal from Scotti. I know the Scottis well. I got both my Panteras there - the 73 in 84 and and the 82 in 86.

Knowing the condition of the cars, and your dilemma re which car to buy and how much to pay, I could advise you better if I understood why you are buying a Pantera.

Like all of us I'm sure the sight of the wide body from behind makes your knees weak, but pick one of these:

1 - You're going to put in your garage, polish it often, stare at it a lot and take it to the local drive-in on Wednesday cruise nights.

2 - You're going to drive it a lot. Not fast or agressively but take it out most evenings and weekends for an hour long highway runs.

3 - You're going to replace your old Porsche with this and drive it to work most days.

4 - You're going to spend the next many years, improving this car bit by bit so it will eventually look like a trailer queen but will let you drive the sh*t out of it regularly without breaking - and leave Ferraris and modern muscle cars in the dust.
Or, 5 - All of the above - over time of course.

As has been mentioned, intended use will make some choices better than others. Even so, things may change over time as you own the car. When I started looking, I was expecting to find a car with needs and improve it over time (as I drove the crap out of it). The car I bought was so clean and unmolested, I kind of feel like I am the car's caretaker (not in a bad way) and that I shouldn't "use it up", but enjoy it while preserving it for myself and others to enjoy for many years to come. This is not a bad thing, but I was surprised how my approach to the car has changed over the years of owning it. I still wanted to drive the crap out of it, so I bought a GT40 replica for abusive duty.

My point? if you think you might be leaning towards the trailer queens, make sure you'll still be able to enjoy the car if it gets a nick and scratch here and there, otherwise you may end up having to buy another car to actually drive!

Importing a car 15+ years old is pretty easy (just did it). Other than all the taxes, it's a simple form. Just make sure you have a clear title and an export clearance stamp from US Customs (takes 3 days to clear titles for export). Also, isn't there a 6.1% duty applied to cars not made in North America, regardless of age? Good luck. Let me know if I can help out.
Hi guys, thanks for the replys. I contacted the guy that owned the 84 gt5 in new york, he told me he sold the car for his asking price $49,500 with extra parts last in april and funny enough the car went to Toronto, I thought this was a reasonable price (I was told by local guys here to look for USA cars and its absoloutely no problem to import 15+ year old cars to cnd, they have done it many times). I thought I would look for cnd cars anyway and found 3 cnd gt5's. I e-mailed a simular offer on the yellow and red cnd cars which I feel is very fair offers for "STOCK" type cars with no real upgrades. I guess I could give the same offer on the silver one although the engine/paint bug me.

This year I was going to buy a FFR Cobra but then was reminded about the P cars again and thought with the computer I would look into it (wow, lots of cars/parts). At first I was looking at spending $30/40,000 cnd on my cobra (which will be a 500/600hp 2000+lb terror). I am very much into power and making a car all it can/should be. I started looking at P cars in the $30/$40 but then found the P.I site with the cars that I would build allready built. Problem is now I am looking at double the coin (so much for my budget). now I am a bit lost, do I pay more money for some of these (OLD) "stock" cars than I feel they are worth (like I do with my Buells) or just go back to my (NEW) "good bang for my buck" $30/40,000cnd 600hp FFR killer Cobra?. I am really a "good value/bang for the buck" kind of guy, I don't like feeling riped off for a bunch of old tin. I have always liked these cars from when I was a teen and more so because of the power plant than anything else. I have built/restored many cars over the years and know that most money gets lost in the drive train, some of my junk http://www.cardomain.com/id/kazzoom

I guess I could knuckle down and look to buy the upgraded $70/80,000 P.I cars which will give me more value for my hard earned money but the drag about that is there would be nothing I could do to/on them except be a caretaker. I don't know I guess am just sitting on the fence now waiting for the wind to blowSmiler... who farted???
I forgot to mention that I would pick #4 and 5. deeb, do you know if the scotti car was crashed?, being the engine is rebuilt, the paint is new on a low km car and they have there own body shop makes me wonder.

There are so many older cars I see for sale all over the usa for all sorts of diffrent money, its hard to understand where the screwed up pricing is coming from. I found e-bay is a great place to gauge pricing by how many guys bid and what they are willing to pay. Originaly I wanted a 70's type "classic" car which to me should be worth more than a 80's "old" car

A guy here in alberta bought a crazy 70's show car for $50,000 usd, It's really what I want in a pantera, the engine makes me want to pull my pud. The flared body cars are what I always liked since I was a teen. http://tkatchev.ucs.ualberta.ca/pantera/index.html
Okay 393, seeing as how you are a #4 or #5 guy here's my advice:

Buy a solid car. Any year. Any model. These can be had for 35 to 40 with no rust, a strong chassis and basic drivetrain ready to enhance. You're going to spend 50 to 75 more on it anyhow over the years, so you might as well spend it only on those things you want, in the order you want, and end up with more than your money's worth when you're done.

Except for the red one on PIs site, all the others are pretty stock and will require lots of upgrades to get it where you want to go. Buying an already done up beast is okay, but you'll spend a lot more than you want and probably will find out that you would have done it different if you were in charge of the build. And you will likely start redoing a lot of the investment that the prvious owners already made.

So start with a solid chassis and go from there. You will add all your own preferences over the years. There are so many options, parts and vendors and so much expertise on these Pantera sites. Take your time. Getting there is half the fun.

Oh yeah. In my humble opinion, aside from an open top, a 600 HP Cobra kit doesn't hold a candle to a Pantera.
Well 393, I think I will offer an opinion ...

Deeb has one of the best GT-5s you will see. I agree that flared cars look "bitch'in". He has also owned an earlier car. His advice is sound.

I own an orange '74. I have had it, and driven it very regularly for around 14 of the last 16 years. After a changing the all the A/C hoses and doing a number of other things, it is back on as my second car. I think, (although I do not really know because I changed the speedo from miles to km years ago) I have put about 50K km on it. I shopped for years before buying it and believe I paid a little more for it. I had very strict buying criteria and there were many cars I walked away from. My car was almost stock with original paint when I bought it. It had 100% original engine, P7s, a clutch job, and the driver's window gear replaced with a brass one.

The first thing I did before shopping for a car was to buy the DeT Pantera Technical manuals. Parts manual, Shop Manual and the Technical Service Bulletins. I got to know how the car was built and what to look for. I spoke to Parts Vendors to give me advice on what to look for or watch out for. (In those days there was no internet) Now, this can be done by searching the web.

The criteria that I believe is most important is exactly what David said: Get a solid chasis - any year. DeT cars can be modified to suite your heart's content and, unlike other exotics, are accepted and appreciated for those modifications.

Which leads me to another criteria that has been touched on in this post: Try to get the full history of the car. That is a great starting point. In addition, if you know the serial number, you can call some of the DeTomaso parts vendors in the U.S. and see if they will be able to tell you the parts they sold to the car. They did in my time and it worked great for me.

Although harder and harder to find, try to find a car with original paint that has a solid chasis. Pay particular attention to the edges of lapped joints to identify incipient rust. Recall, you are dealing with uni-body construction.

And last but not least (I know this may be controversial): It takes all of 2 minutes to disconnect the speedometer/odometer. In fact, if you want to go further, there are instructions in a technical bulletin on how, very simply to adjust things. When I was looking for a car, most owners didn't know how fast they were driving anyway. The mileage on the "clock" was more important if they were ever considering selling the car. Finally, a new speedo with minimal mileage can be bought for a few bucks. Message: I NEVER paid attention to the odometer reading when I was looking at cars. In fact, I still don't. When someone tells me the mileage on their car, I just say: "Oh, thats nice"

So, my advice is just to underscore deeb's: Solid body/chasis, solid body/chasis, solid body/chasis ... Then you will end up with a car you are most happy with.

To quote one of my favourite lines on the back of a GT-5 "Eats Porsches for Breakfeast and Ferraris for Lunch". A Cobra kit still doesn't quite do it fo me either. A GT-40 kit on the other hand, I would have to think about ...Hmmm, But where would I put my briefcase?

Yours, "andriyko"
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
Importing a car 15+ years old is pretty easy (just did it). Other than all the taxes, it's a simple form. Just make sure you have a clear title and an export clearance stamp from US Customs (takes 3 days to clear titles for export). Also, isn't there a 6.1% duty applied to cars not made in North America, regardless of age?


When I imported my not-made-in-North-America Pantera into Canada last December, no duty was payable because the car was more than 25 years old.

That was a pleasant surprise, especially because GST and PST are payable on the 6.1% duty.
If you are importing the car into the US, obviously no GST is applicable as we have no export taxes on private used cars. I was told recently that the Ontario rules for valuation of cars older than 25 was changed from invoice (amount paid for the car) to appraised value (LOTS higher). Since my last car squeaked in before the change, I'm not sure.
Well, I will defer to Mark, who lives in the law abiding capitol of Canada, Ottawa, where rules and requirements mean something. Just remove the Pantera logo and call it a an Innocenti. That should look after the "appraised" value. And what customs guy will know the difference? Better yet, come to the cowboy country of Quebec, where Canadian laws don't count and men are still men - well hommes anyhow.
The Ontario rules (I was told) only apply to the calculation of provincial sales tax (8%) due when the car is registered.

Still, there are enough eBay scams offering Panteras for under $10K, it should be easy to show how truly worthless these cars are! Big Grin

And DEEB is right, Quebec is cowboy country—where hommes are hommes and laws don't matter—unless you're speeding and have out-of-province plates and can't speak French and it's late on a weekend night when only the jails are open late...
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