Any comments on these Al heads?

TMD advertises the heads are made by Pro Comp.

Pro Comp is an Australian company selling Chinese manufactured rip-offs of other companies products, with substantially poorer quality. The Aussies don't have a very high opinion of Pro-Comp.

The heads are copies of the CHI 3V head. You can expect they are cast with a less expensive alloy, the heat treating is not up to par, and the machining is not as well executed.

Beware of TMD & Pro Comp.

cowboy from hell

This is the problem with third world product, particularly from China.
They are not inferior materials or techonlogy.
They are cheaper to cast and to ship.
Generally they are not machined in China. They are machined and assembled in "the west".
The genral population doesn't realize where valve train componets come from.
Look at the valve guides. They are the same ones used by Edelbrock.
Only field testing will tell for sure about durabilaty.

There was a fair amount of discussion about these on the 335 Series site. This is an updated ad. You'll note that the ad pastes in the CHI data and then comments that these may not flow as well. There were remarks on the 335 forum that the out of the box flow numbers were more like 285 at .600 lift versus the 322cfm suggested by the chart. If I was CHI, I'd be PO'd that they were using my promotonal data to sell copies of the heads they devleoped.

After refering to my Metalurgist fellow Pantera owner ... he states ...ask the questions of what type Aluminum ??? and is it new metal or recycled materials.

Ron

I emailed the ebay seller and asked if he knew of perceived QC issues with the heads.

His reply: "We are not the mfg, we sell them, so we have no input on perceived problems/solutions. If you have a mfg question contact pro comp."

He also said they were made in Australia.

caveat emptor.

The business ethics of Pro Comp is deplorable. They are bottom feeders. They are copying the product of another company. This is not the first time they have done this, most of the parts in their product line are rip-offs of other company's products. TMD isn't any better, they know they are selling rip-offs of other company's products, and make no excuses about doing so. Do you want to do business with either of these companies?

I cannot understand why anybody would want even 1 cent of their hard earned money to go into the pockets of a bottom feeder company like TMD or Pro Comp? Or why anybody would feel safe purchasing their products. If they have no ethical problem screwing companies like CHI, they will have no ethical problems screwing you either, like cutting costs on the materials, heat treating and machining, and then lying to you about it. They will also have no ethical problems screwing you when you go to them with a problem with the product you have purchased, expecting the same customer service you would get from CHI.

George

With my current employer I have had the opportunity to spend time in China. My take-away is that when presented the choice between a Chinese product and a "western" company I would always reject the Chinese. Even if this means paying a higher price. For me it is nothing to do with quality, but cultural.

The Chinese culture is completely open to copying/backwards engineering or outright ripping off someone’s design. To them is something to be expected. Walking down streets of China you can find all types of copies, fake or pirated goods.

While short term this is great for the consumers, the longer term impacts are killer. Take the knocked off heads. After spending perhaps $100K+ on molds/patterns, tooling and flow tests some Chinese company copies the product and sells the "same design/product" for less. For the original designer their entire R&D is wiped out. The original company cannot afford new product development cost. The results is another company out of business.

For now, China is the center for cheap labor. As with any developing nation, they are building their technology base so that one day they will have the internal skills to build, design and develop more technically complex products to compete in the world market. While this is good for any developing nation, the Chinese ripping off design and directly selling them on the open market is an approach that is a double edge sword. By taking in US dollars for cheap goods that is a direct copy or forgery from another manufacturer they gain knowledge so that one day they might be able to develop the complete product.

I first hand witnessed 4 different Chinese companies backwards engineering a complex software product in less than 4 years. In China, the copied code is the standard and the original US company that spent the R&D dollars to develop the unique capabilities and processes is not competitive in China. Why, because the US product costs more. Humm, perhaps the higher price might be the R&D dollars that must be allocated to the product cost. A cost not required for a copy. A real impact on a company’s interest in being innovative to only have someone copy and undercut the market.

I chose to support the company that took the innovation to create unique products. I vote with my pocket book. Why should I help fund a company bent on copying designs that longer term will reduce my choices for unique and innovated products?

ROVERLTD .. very well said .... and I will be the first to say I have the ut most respect for your loyalty. I agree 100%. But the way my fleet or service vehicles are Fords. I buy USA anytime I can.

But very simply ... if they cant tell you about the technical side of the product or the warranty in writing ... why would some one buy it ???? I would rather buy a set of heads that were patched from racing and have some life on them then a set that I know nothing about made over sea's.

Ron

I do know someone who bought a set of these heads. They are definitely not bolt on heads. He spent alot of time finding intake gaskets to match the heads correctly. Once he found them he had to raise the roof on the intake runners of the manifold to match the head. The valve seats needed some minor work to get them right.He also cut off the header flanges and welded on new ones to match the exhaust ports better.The casting themselves of the head were pretty good, so was the quality of the aluminum. He had them flow benched for a cam.The intakes flowed better than the exhaust favoring a high lift cam. Spend it up front or the back end. If your not knowledgable about the above then their probably a great deal.Just don't expect them to perform like AFR's or Edelbrocks

Dan

ROVERLTD ; VERY WELL SAID!!! THE CHINESE DON'T CARE WHO THEY CHEAT!!! MANY COMPANIES WHO DO BUISNESS THERE, FIND COUNTERFITS OF THEIR PRODUCTS MADE FROM THERE OWN MOLDS AND PATTERNS ON THE WORLD MARKETS. MANY TIMES FROM THEIR OWN SUPPLIERS. WHAT A RIPOFF!!! THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE. WHEN WILL THESE COMPANIES LEARN?

I hate to add fuel to the fire but we are the Chinese.American capitalism at its best. American corporations setup business their because of cheap labor and favorable import tariffs that our own goverment has implemented.Ever ask yourselfs why rising steel prices? We use to be a country of manufacturing.No more...

Dan

Rising steel prices ??? because we are sending it all to China for their building BOOM. All I can say is I do my share .. My company fleet is Fords
I try to buy American ... because the JOB I SAVE MAY BE MY OWN ..... ever here that its becoming more true everyday.

Ron

China is begining to see a rise in steel prices. They have been giving away so much of their steel for so long they are begining to import steel. Their steel prices will soon rise.

Toyota makes more of it's trucks cars in the US then the American auto manufacturing. The Unions have driven so much of our workforce out of the country. I certainly don't mind buying Toyota Trucks but the Chinese....as was said by others.

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
... The Unions have driven so much of our workforce out of the country...

I disagree Gary, it is the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) laws penned in the '80s by our own politicians that have created the situation today. The figures you have seen quoted have nothing to do with where the vehicles are made, the figures you have read refer to what they call domestic content, how many of the parts are made here verses outside the US. Certainly all US Ford vehicles are assembled in plants here in the US, but they are assembled with parts, some of which are made outside the US, to keep the "domestic content" at a level below that specified by the CAFE laws. Ford smartly uses many parts sourced from Mazda, which Ford owns.

your friend on the DTIC

Ok this has to be a setup ... I will say my 2 cents then shut up ....

All I can say is the Work Force is not what it used to be 25 or 50 years ago... because back then the immagrants were legal... now they are illegal ... there is no loyalty, morals and ethics with employees to small business's which make up 90% of the US companies ... we let the 10% of large companies dictate the rules and brain wash employees into thinking that they have a secure job forever. As we know thats BS. But people continue to by Foriegn products ... I say the rule is 51% .. if a product is to be called made in US . 51% has to be made here .. thats a Goverment Rule. So even if you buy FORDS, Chevy etc at least 51% is US .. where as Toyota ... all the parts are made in Japan and shipped to the US as parts so the car is only assembled here ... what percent is that 10%.

All I can say is pull the correct lever in the voting booth .

Ron