ANYONE KNOW THE PART # ????

I've got a Quella triple pass radiator in good condition I would sell, but it's copper. Any interest in it? Technically speaking, I think copper cools better and when Dennis sold it to me he claimed the copper radiator was stronger than an aluminum one. I think the only advantage of the aluminum radiator is it's lighter.

Was this rad designed by Ron Davis and PPC only sold them or did Dennis do the R&D, then have Ron Davis build the rad to his specification? If the latter is true, Dennis' reason for removing the part number is obvious.

Here's a picture of the radiator, 3 pass - 5 row - 12 fins per inch. This is NOT an aluminum radiator, this is the copper and brass version.
It's main advantage is NO INTERNAL BAFFLES. Coolant enters the bottom corner, makes three trips across the core, then exits the opposite top corner. There is no way for coolant to "sneak" around an internal baffle and exit the radiator before passing through the core. That was one of the problems with the stock Pantera radiator.
Larry, I sent you a PM.

Of course re-routing the coolant exit to the other side of the radiator means modifying one coolant tube too. I didn't want to cut my original tube so I had PPC make one for me. Other than the coolant tube, it's a pretty straight forward swap. I always used pusher fans with it, but the location of the inlet and outlet tubes might make sucker fans an easy install.

There's a lot of controversy on Pantera radiators, but cooling problems with good components seems to be flow-related. And one of the largest restrictions in the system is the radiator itself. Besides lighter weight, aluminum radiators can use 1" to 1-1/2" wide x 0.060" wall thickness tubes, while the best copper radiators use a maximumum size tube of 5/8" x 0.015" wall thickness, to get comparable heat transfer. This is one reason copper radiators are delicate: 0.015" is tinfoil-thickness; you can tear copper tubes with your fingers! Big tubes are stronger and have more surface area inside and out, as well as flowing more water. Fewer tubes allows more air to go thru the core, carrying more heat away. Those two reasons are why all car makers in the world have gone to aluminum radiators. To get the correct water flow rate in a 300-bhp Z-28, GM uses a single large tube, single pass aluminum radiator that weighs only 10 lbs. Each tube has built-in rougheners inside so water flowing gets thrown around as it passes thru, liberating even more heat. So for maximum cooling, one wants a two-tube aluminum radiator, all-welded for structural strength. The number of passes is up to you. As the number of passes of the water across the core increases, the cooling efficiency goes up, but 2 passes are not twice as good as one, and three passes are only marginally better than two. For dependability, run non-corrosive coolant: some local tap water will dissolve aluminum cooling parts without an additive. One East Coast owner dissolved two Fluidynes in a year (under warranty) before the company recommended using a certain additive. Since then (2 more years), no problems. Finally, distilled water is more acidic than plain tap water, so using distilled fixes nothing; the key is to use a proper additive with aluminum.

Dear Bosswrench,

Your posts are the end all of end all.

Your responses are way over my head, but I feel that when I read them, there is nothing else meaningful to be said.

I wish that I had your experience and knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
the key is to use a proper additive with aluminum.

Jack, can you suggest any rad additives? I've heard good things about Purple Ice.

I guess Jack's posting spells out why PPC no longer makes a three pass radiator, in copper/brass or aluminum. PPC's current aluminum rad is a single pass (w/no baffles) with the inlet and outlet in the same locations as their older three pass version. This PPC rad is also made by Ron Davis (unless they've changed manufacturers in the last couple of years).

quote:

PPC's current aluminum rad is a single pass (w/no baffles) with the inlet and outlet in the same locations as their older three pass version.

By PPC, you do mean Dennis Quella Pantera Performance Center, not Larry Stock Pantera Parts Connection?

Dennis told me on the phone the other week that his current single pass is made with stock hose outlet locations. His 3-pass outlets were NOT in the stock positions.

Most of my desire to just get another 3-pass is that I can just swap it in, no hose hassles, etc.

Please clarify why you said his current aluminum has the outlets in the same position as his older 3-pass.

Thanks,

Larry

Larry,
A single pass radiator would have to have the connections on opposite ends by definition.
Forest

quote:

A single pass radiator would have to have the connections on opposite ends by definition.

Doooh! Of course you are right, and I am feeling a bit stupid at the moment.

Seems another talk with Dennis is in order.

Larry

Ok Jack, just to play Devil's advocate and stir the pot a bit...

quote:

...aluminum radiators can use 1" to 1-1/2" wide x 0.060" wall thickness tubes, while the best copper radiators use a maximum size tube of 5/8" x 0.015" wall thickness, to get comparable heat transfer. This is one reason copper radiators are delicate: 0.015" is tinfoil-thickness; you can tear copper tubes with your fingers!

So, what you're really saying is that an aluminum radiator requires a larger surface area to exchange the same amount of heat out of the system as a copper radiator since it's less efficient at heat transfer.

And, those delicate tubes on a copper radiator can easily be pinch sealed should you ever suffer a rupture on the road. An aluminum radiator will leave you waiting for AAA, then searching for a specialty shop that can repair it before you finally send it back to the manufacturer for repair or buy a new one.

quote:

Big tubes are stronger and have more surface area inside and out, as well as flowing more water. Fewer tubes allows more air to go thru the core, carrying more heat away. Those two reasons are why all car makers in the world have gone to aluminum radiators.

Actually, the auto makers went to aluminum to reduce materials cost. It had absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the tubes or air flow.

Making a 'change' to your car is not always the same thing as making an 'upgrade.'

I'm sure most people would acknowledge that Stewart Components are THE authority on automotive cooling systems. In the "Tech Tips" section of their web site, they discuss every aspect of automotive cooling systems, including issues being discussed in this thread. Here are some quotes from Stewart's tech tips:

"We strongly recommend aluminum radiators. They dissipate heat more efficiently than copper brass"

"Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator. Triple pass radiators require 64x more pressure to maintain the same volume. Automotive water pumps are a centrifugal design, not positive displacement, so with a double pass radiator, the pressure is doubled and flow is reduced by approximately 33%. Modern radiator designs, using wide/thin cross sections tubes, seldom benefit from multiple pass configurations. The decrease in flow caused by multiple passes offsets any benefits of a high-flow water pump."