Cable shifter conversion kit

That looks pretty slick, but before you go out and drop the coin on it, have you tried removing the spring / plunger assy in the Shifter Assy? There's an article about in in the (let's see if I recall....) oh yeah the "Shade Tree Mechanic" by Chuck Engles (PCNC).

It was not too long back, April 1993, I think.

Regards -

Rocky

I have not tried removing the spring/plunger assy. but I did read over the article you sent me and it looks pretty striaght forward...but it is almost 40 years old so who knows what might be encountered. If you are going to try it please keep me posted. I would like to hear how it really goes.
....and "coin" is not what one would drop for this shifter and cable conversion. An arm and a leg is more like it at $1500.00. I would have to save up my allowance for many moons to get this thing.

But think how cool you would sound as you described your cable shifter system to the rest of us.....

Did you ever try this?

Looks as if someone is thinking about it though: http://zr1pantera.com

quote:

Originally posted by Rick P.:
Does anyone have any experience with this product?

http://malinmotors.com/product...eKit/p_cableKit.html

Rick give James Malin a call. When I was at his place I saw one install in a GT5-S car. Looks great and the shifter felt smooth. He a great guy to talk to and very helpful..!

Thanks....still not sure if I want to take the plunge....still kinda pricey.....
Although I have been known to spend more on more foolish things.

Hey Rick -

What are you doing with Jay Leno's car?


Link to Jay's Garage

I have the shifter but have not fonoshed aligning it. I changed the cooling tubes and other things and the cable shifter solved a lot of issues I had.

Once you get the shifter you have to measure for cables. They have a vendor set up for cables so they know what you need when you call.

There was not much in the way of instructions so you need to be able to figure this sort of thing out to sme degree.

Very nice construction though.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick P.:
I have not tried removing the spring/plunger assy. but I did read over the article you sent me and it looks pretty striaght forward...but it is almost 40 years old so who knows what might be encountered. If you are going to try it please keep me posted. I would like to hear how it really goes.
....and "coin" is not what one would drop for this shifter and cable conversion. An arm and a leg is more like it at $1500.00. I would have to save up my allowance for many moons to get this thing.

It was a good change 40 yeas ago and it still is. It takes some of the effort out of the linkage. Loosens it up.

Don't know why they felt the dents in the shift lever mechanism were needed?

What would be the point of replacing the orignal rod shift designed for the car with some aftermarket cable shift kit? I am failing to see the point. I get that the GT40 kits went that way (only because they were too lazy to design a rod shift like the original car - other than ERA which stayed with the rod). I just dont get it?

Well the real question is this a change for change sake or is it an improvement? A significant one? The cable shift cars I've driven don't have better feel to them. They are a bit lighter though.

quote:

Well the real question is this a change for change sake or is it an improvement? A significant one? The cable shift cars I've driven don't have better feel to them. They are a bit lighter though.

It is a HUGE improvement. This is now an SACC Restorations product. We took over the manufacturing and development of this product earlier this year. We have made a few changes to make it even smoother. We also will have various options available. More to come later.

Something people always miss when talking about this shifter is that it is a short throw shifter. Not simply a shorter arm but a shorter throw. If there was a gate, the arm would not utilize the full travel of the gate like the stock shifter does.

Regarding price, I am working to get the price down so you won't need an arm and a leg to get one, just an arm...

Scott

quote:

There was not much in the way of instructions so you need to be able to figure this sort of thing out to sme degree.

The newest units from SACC Restorations will come with complete instructions as well as video tutorials on an actual install to help guide folks.

The kit was shown at this years fun rally!!!

I wanna see the video. Are you going to post it on your website?

So I am guessing left / right on the shifter controls one of the cables, and forward / back gets the other one?

Which is which? It looks like a lot of machined parts in that setup!

Wow!

Rocky

a Few years ago I had this shifter on approval in my shop for 6 months and could not get motivated enough to jump thru the hoops needed to install it for testing. The version I had was made of 1" thick 6061 aluminum plate and weighed about 2.5X what an entire stock shifter assembly does. Installation is not plug-and-play due to the cable length requirement. Lloyd Butfoy worked on the development for his 6-speed conversion and said that at the end, it worked 'OK' but was no improvement, so he sold the rights to another shop. Now it appears its been sold again.

IMHO, the stock Pantera shifter, once the redundant shift detent is removed from under the console (a 5.0 minute, no-cost mod) and is adjusted to the specs in the Red Owners Manual, works very well. I suggest using the money to buy some good wheels, tires and brakes. The kit GT-40 guys seem to like the cable shifters over what the car makers supply. My 2 cents- J DeRyke

Thanks for the reply BW. It's important to seperate fact from salesmanship.
Give me a dozen testimonials here from people who would know the difference.

I would point out that a short shifter is not necessarily something that is a positive.

Son #1 has one in one of his SVT Contours. The blown one. It is a cable operated shifter.

He can drive it. I can't feel the differences between the gears.

The Taurus SHO went through this as well. The original cars were all cable shifted. The upgrade is to a rod/shaft shifter. Big difference and improvement.

Sorry, but for the cost and the labor to go into this, this is a hard sell for me.

Too many changes in this group just for the sake of being different.

Show me I'm wrong? Got a demonstrator I can drive?

I can certainly see the desire; I desired one but I also needed one. I actually looked at putting the shafts back in for the rod shifter but the path way has been blocked by all the changes I have made.

I personally hatted adjustment on the rod shifter. When adjusting my old one, I was bouncing back and forth across proper adjustment and was extremely frustrating. I think the metal had seated in a way it would not sit where it needed to sit.

I also did not like some of the feel when the trunions dry out and they do not move as smooth as they should; jerky. I mean, I understand that's proper maintenance and such....

I like the idea of being able to make minor adjustments from time to time with a turn buckle. It just seems to make sense.

If we discounted every different thing tried we would have stock Pantera's because there is nothing wrong with a 100% stock Pantera.

As far as weight, I did not weight them but weighing the shafts, and the cast shifter I don't really see how there is enough weight to make any difference in either direction.

There is little doubt in my mind that if this car was in production today that it would have a cable shifter.
I like the simplicity of the cable shifter.
The thought is just if it is a worthwhile change over for me?
It isn't that outrageous of a price to pay at all if it is a significant improvement or there is a real need.
It certainly would be a better mechanism for a race car.

quote:

a Few years ago I had this shifter on approval in my shop for 6 months and could not get motivated enough to jump thru the hoops needed to install it for testing. The version I had was made of 1" thick 6061 aluminum plate and weighed about 2.5X what an entire stock shifter assembly does. Installation is not plug-and-play due to the cable length requirement. Lloyd Butfoy worked on the development for his 6-speed conversion and said that at the end, it worked 'OK' but was no improvement, so he sold the rights to another shop. Now it appears its been sold again.

IMHO, the stock Pantera shifter, once the redundant shift detent is removed from under the console (a 5.0 minute, no-cost mod) and is adjusted to the specs in the Red Owners Manual, works very well. I suggest using the money to buy some good wheels, tires and brakes. The kit GT-40 guys seem to like the cable shifters over what the car makers supply. My 2 cents- J DeRyke

Thanks for the support Jack!!! Always appreciated.

Yes, SACC Restorations has purchased the rights to this product. The only thing the same as back then is almost NOTHING. The unit today is very easy to install and is a MARKED improvement. It is very much a plug-and-play installation with the exception of the final adjustment.

Maybe you should evaluate a current version before bad mouthing it.

Scott

quote:

I suggest using the money to buy some good wheels, tires and brakes.

I would like to know where you are going to buy all this for less than $1000.00!!!!

Pantera owners who don't feel there's a need for this product should reserve judgment until they see what Scott's done with it. Just because one person tried a cable shifter ten years ago and didn't feel it was an improvement, isn't cause to write it off. Also, it's very "old school" to be critical of cable shifters in general. Just go and drive a new Porsche with a manual trans (if you can find one!). The ZF is inherently a beautifully shifting transaxle. Just ask anyone who's ever driven a BMW M1 ! Unfortunately, our DeTomaso designed linkage isn't as good as it could be.

I think it's great that Scott is willing to make a conventional Pantera drivetrain better. If anyone has driven a 2005 or 2006 Ford GT, then you may not be so critical of what a cable shifted transaxle can be.

Again, kudos have to go to Scott for taking this on. I think it's great -- anything to make these cars better is a huge deal in my book.

Mark

The MG guys will defend rear disk brakes till their are 6 foot under. If you can lock up the rear brakes then there is no reason to have anything better.

I also wish I had a quarter for every time they complain that a rear disc locked up, will not work, is not adjusting as it should, grossly out of balance, etc.....

Exploration of ideas is what makes the world a better place. I think a stock shifter certainly needs the exploration of some ideas.

Well there you go Scott. All these guys who think it is a great idea are lining up now to buy one! Congratulations! You're going to have to make a lot more of them.

I'll reserve judgement until after the test drive. I have NO problem in giving credit where it is due, enthusiastically.

@ David Nunn. Just drove a new Porsche as a matter of fact. Got paid to do a review of the two cars. Drove the PDK too. Unfortunately, the PDK makes the manual a dinosaur and completely obsolete.

Personally, I never compared my Audi TT, which is a cable shifter to the Pantera shift wise either till now. The Audi isn't particularly fun to drive as a stick as a matter of fact. It's quite cumbersome and notchy.

It feels identical to the Porsche. Clutch too. Must be a generic thing? Definitely not what you want to get stuck driving in NYC traffic with.

The ZF without the shifter detent is noticeably easier and approximately as precise. The Pantera clutch is lighter than the Porsche. Noticibly.

I kind of agree with Doug. My old Porsche (manual 5-speed) used a cable shifter, and my MR2 turbo (manual 5-speed) also does. Had trouble with both breaking cables. Also found the hard way that when a shift cable breaks, the transmissions cannot be shifted AT ALL. But both those production transaxles used cables half the thickness of the ones shown in the photos. Time will tell.

We have a Ferrari 348 in the family that I get to exercise often. The Ferrari guys bash the cable shifter in that car all the time. I don't understand why. The shifter works just fine and is precise even with the gates once the transaxle warms up a bit. If there is any fault its with the transaxle not the shifter mechanism.

I'll go on record and say I will buy one if the car is better, signifigantly better with it, but I'm not going to go ape shi t over it because of just the glitz.

Show me the beef.

quote:

Show me the beef.

I'm cooking the beef right now!!! It is almost done!!!

Hopefully its being every so slowly smoked until its tender. LMAO Man I need a rib eye and a beer.

What track are you going to hold the introduction and test drive at?

quote:

What track are you going to hold the introduction and test drive at?

If you are real nice I'll let you come over to my house and sit in my car. You can then shift it all you want (with the motor OFF). You can also make all the rumm!!! rumm!!! noises you want too...

quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:

quote:

What track are you going to hold the introduction and test drive at?

If you are real nice I'll let you come over to my house and sit in my car. You can then shift it all you want (with the motor OFF). You can also make all the rumm!!! rumm!!! noises you want too...

You stole my line!

In all honesty, I can actually drive mine and it shifts nice. I don't have to pretend to make noises, I like hot chili a lot, and the headers echo off of the canyon walls. It even has a short shifter. How can I tell the cable makes the ZF better?

Even though there are plenty of people who would disagree, AND SOME ARE FRIENDS, just because I can't look at yours in the light without wearing dark, dark sunglasses to cut the glitz, that doesn't make it shift better?

Glitz is nice but sometimes I need to draw the line for function.

Don't get me wrong. I like the work you guys do. You do put your heart and soul into it but sometimes I don't see the point of it FOR ME?

Sometimes it seems like just an exercise on your part(s) to be different?

Hum. Looks like I have come to an impasse in the road?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Thanks for the reply BW. It's important to seperate fact from salesmanship.
Give me a dozen testimonials here from people who would know the difference.

I would point out that a short shifter is not necessarily something that is a positive.

Son #1 has one in one of his SVT Contours. The blown one. It is a cable operated shifter.

He can drive it. I can't feel the differences between the gears.

The Taurus SHO went through this as well. The original cars were all cable shifted. The upgrade is to a rod/shaft shifter. Big difference and improvement.

Sorry, but for the cost and the labor to go into this, this is a hard sell for me.

Too many changes in this group just for the sake of being different.

Show me I'm wrong? Got a demonstrator I can drive?

You have that right about the original SHO cable shifter models. I have a 1990 SHO and the later rod shifter models are much better. I saw one of the Pantera cable shift set ups at the rally in San Diego this year. It is an interesting design and the fabrication quality is top notch. I would still like to drive a car that had one installed before I purchase one myself.

All joking aside, the function will be there. I agree, if it isn't better then I wouldn't go that route either.

I just finished with some geometry design changes I wanted to make to make it even better. We got it re-installed in the car today and am VERY happy with the results.

Another functional benefit is, it is maintenance free. There is nothing to lube and nothing to cause shifter issues once things heat up (like a lot of people complain about with the rod shifter).

Once my car is running again, people will be able to try it first hand.

quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
All joking aside, the function will be there. I agree, if it isn't better then I wouldn't go that route either.

I just finished with some geometry design changes I wanted to make to make it even better. We got it re-installed in the car today and am VERY happy with the results.

Another functional benefit is, it is maintenance free. There is nothing to lube and nothing to cause shifter issues once things heat up (like a lot of people complain about with the rod shifter).

Once my car is running again, people will be able to try it first hand.

Did you say I would be the first hand to try it? I'm in.

It isn't actually the shift mechanism that causes the issues necessarily in the original Pantera.

I really think it is the ZF. I'm not sure anything can be done to tighten up the shift gates. It is not a high effort trannie to shift at all. It is just mainly the second gear gate that if you even think about looking at it wrong will grind second gear.

Lots of people have had them apart, put in all new parts and the thing still does it.

Show me your shifter helps that situation and I'll need to fight for a place in line to buy one because this really is an across the board issue.



A couple of people have pointed out the Ford GT is cable shifted but it isn't the same transmission so it really isn't an accurate comparison. You can't presume that the Pantera will be the same by going to a cable.

I won't argue with the current thinking of using cable shifters in current production cars BUT the reality is that they were introduced for simplifying production engineering and therefore ease of installation and are a cost reduction measure. They are not necessarily better than a rod shifter.

They make installing manual transmission and transaxles possible in certain designs where a rod shifter would not have been before. There certainly isn't anything Holy about them.

The stock Pantera shifter can be improved a lot by removing the gate plate, the detents in the shift mechanism itself and using a re-engineered shift knob that effectively makes it a short throw lever.

The lowered knob is a clever, effective and inexpensive solution to an entire unnecessary shift mechanism change over.

I do agree though that without those modifications the original shift mechanism is one of the things that dates the car and seem an antique.

The cable could make the car feel more modern. Question is, will it?

I need a test drive.



Incidentally if you guys do this all with the Smithy, I'm going out to buy a Smithy 3 in 1 and a bunch of aluminum billet. I don't know what I am going to make with it yet but gonna make sumpin' with it!