Edelbrock Air Gap #7564- under early screen??

No one got nothin??

Bumping this to the top.

Larry

Hey Larry

I'm disappointed that folks with the Edelbrock Air Gap manifold haven't chimed-in to help you out.

In the past we've had some members claim they've fitted their "Edelbrock Air Gap" induction beneath the factory screen, but they've never specified if it were below the early mesh engine screen, or the later solid engine screen. I hope folks will chime in and help you out. You've been so helpful to others in the past, these forums are all about members helping members.

If you mill the carb pad flat it will fit with a low profile air cleaner. With a stock or standard round air cleaner it may need some slight modifications. I used a wedge spacer to level my carb pad, so it defiantly would not fit, but my engine screen was already cracked so I modified it to fit.

...Larry, I have one out in the Garage, still in the box.
I'll get out there in a Little while and post the Measurements for You.

I will say this....The Air-Gap Dual Plane is a very well engineered Intake. IMO

...We know these Manifolds are intended for the Cleveland, Mounted in a Mustang, or Other Front Engine Vehicle, so the Carb Mounting Pad is at a 5 Degree Angle, Down in the Front.
These Measurements are taken Between the Gasket Surfaces of the Block, to the Carb Pad Surface at the Top of the Manifold, at the Front and Rear. See Pics, The Measurements are,
Manifold Pad at the 5 Degree Angle:

Front= 4-5/8"
Rear = 5-3/4"

...WITH the 5 Degree Angle PLATE Installed:

Front= 5-7/8"
Rear = 5-15/16"

I DO NOT think there will be a Clearance Problem with the Engine Cover.
...And when the Plate is installed the Slight Angle to the Studs is Minimal. I have done this before. Just use Studs with a Metal washer Under the Nut...BUT use a Thick FIBER Washer under the Metal Washer. This Allows tightening the Nut without much undue stress. NO Need to re-Drill the Stud Holes. It is 'Forgiving', the Carb will Seal Just Fine.

MADE IN THE USA

This Air-Gap Manifold looks to Me, No Higher than the Torquer Single Plane Manifold.

NOTE: Always Use STUDS. Some have used Bolts at the Carb, in My Opinion, Not a good Idea! Studs make the Assembly Rigid and Locate the Carb more Accurately.

Last...We can expect the 'Air-Gap' to run cooler as the Runners are Isolated, great for Operation during the Summer Months.
But since there is NO EGR/Heater Passage, I would expect it to run 'Poorly' in the Cold Air of Winter. Cold is Not conducive to good 'Atomization'! Be Aware.

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Thanks, Marlin!

Now I have another request/question.

The Blue Thunder, which barely fits under an early screen, is 4 11/16" tall F/R.

Your 7564 front height figure - 4 5/8"" - is essentially the same.

Fitment of the 7564 is thus dependent on the rear height.

So........

Marlin, does your skilled machinist's eye believe the 7564 carb pad could be milled to a equal F/R height, like the Blue Thunder?

If not exactly equal, what rear height appears possible?

Thanks again,

Larry

I am using this Spectre plenum

This Spectre plenum base could likely be be milled down another .25"

New height of 2.15"

The 7564 real-world installed feedback I need is only valid if used with an early screen.

AND......

I need to know the distance from the carb pad to top of the air filter used with the 7564 install.

So if a 7564 install didn't fit under an early screen by 3/4", but your air cleaner assembly is 3/4" taller than my Spectre plenum, that indicates a successful installion - under the screen - with my plenum

For future use, here is what I have found/calculated on some popular intakes.

(Calculated is the average of published F/R dimensions.)

Larry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Thanks, Marlin!

Now I have another request/question.

The Blue Thunder, which barely fits under an early screen, is 4 11/16" tall F/R.

Your 7564 front height figure - 4 5/8"" - is essentially the same.

Fitment of the 7564 is thus dependent on the rear height.

So........

Marlin, does your skilled machinist's eye believe the 7564 carb pad could be milled to a equal F/R height, like the Blue Thunder?

If not exactly equal, what rear height appears possible?

Thanks again,

Larry

Hi Larry,

After measuring with the Straightedge, Your question is 'Absolutely Doable'! Here's how it looked:
Machining the Manifold pad at a angle(Cutting-Off the ANGLE), Perfectly LEVEL with the Front Surface at the Stud hole will give You a Height of 4-3/4" Above the Rear Gasket Surface. We're talking a RAKE of '0' off the Front and 3/8" Off the Rear.
4-3/4" puts You 1/16" Higher than where You want to be. Need It Lower, take the 1/16th off the Front and take 3/8" + 1/16" Off the Rear. We know our goal is to have the Carb sit Near Level when the Engine is In the Pantera.
Be Advised.... the Thickness of the TOP of the Carb Pad, INSIDE at the REAR is .700", of the UPPERMOST Chamber, (Left and Right, Dual Plane Chambers).

In Closing I'll add, When I purchased My Pantera back in 2001, the Central/Main Engine Cover was Missing. I never received it. I would have removed it anyway as I like My Cleveland Fully Exposed for All to Admire.

My Pleasure Larry! Good-Luck with it My Friend!!

P.S. I'am very Happy with the 'All-Red' Taillights! Thank You!

Marlon, perfect!

"absolutely doable" was the answer I was hoping to receive.

It is looking more and more like the airgap with a milled carb pad and my very low plenum can come in underneath the early flat screen.

Mike Drew successfully uses the flat blue thunder and a round 14" air cleaner of unknown height under his early flat screen.

If his air cleaner assembly is no less than my plenum's 2.4"/2.15" height I will be good to go.

Next task, email to Mike.

Thanks again, Marlon

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by Marlin Jack:

7564 front height figure - 4 5/8""

Machining the Manifold pad at a angle(Cutting-Off the ANGLE), Perfectly LEVEL with the Front Surface at the Stud hole will give You a Height of 4-3/4" ...

got the same Edelbrock 7564 set up for my engine..still waiting for the temp to go up..to get it done
Understand that
a) you did mill the "spacer plate" to be "horizontal"...will do
b) use studs.. will do

What "spacer plate material and hights to use?
1) Material ? Aluminium or Pertinax? .. the latter provides better temp differentiation/separation from the engine I guess
2) What hight should the Space have? please 1" = 2.54cm?
all needs to go UNDER the Engine cover..(may be, except for show of..if I understand correctly (more smile)
Matthias

I do not believe there is any intake manifold and carburetor air cleaner combination that can fit underneath the screen if a spacer is used between the manifold and the carburetor.

One of Marlin's Photographs did show a spacer plate but the milling operation only was applicable to the manifold carb base being milled.

I think an airgap manifold with the carburetor pad milled flat and a very short air cleaner assembly or plenum will fit under the screen. Barely.

Absolutely it will not fit with any sort of a spacer between the manifold and the carburetor

Larry

Adding spacers to the rear screen attachment points, while not helping much at the front of the screen, may provide just the right amount of clearance at the rear for some applications......



With the rear of the screen brought up to level with the rear deck.

Your mileage may really vary.....

With everything removed from 2511 I intend to mill all four mounting faces of the two aluminum engine mount assemblies.

While I will rely on my machinist's recommendation I see no reason why each of the four faces cannot be shaved by at least one 16th of an inch.

Mike Drew's blue thunder assembly fit OK until he replaced his rubber engine mount biscuits, showing that every fraction of an inch can be of value in the overall height reducing efforts.

I will update this post with the observed height reduction once the milling is finished.

Larry

I would not do that, for what it's worth, the unintended consequences could be a problem, the oil pan is now lowered, the rear mounts will be stressed, and the mounts ( a caste piece ) will loose integrity, the crank pulley, harmonic balancer,distributor,headers? yea I know it's only a sixteenth, why not shave it off the intake or air cleaner, just saying.

Thanks Chris, all good points.

Yes, they are castings, not forged pieces, but my well-trained amateur structural engineering eye thinks 1/16" is doable without impacting functional strength needs. What's the worst that could happen????

IF it lowers things too much, a simple shim plate under the chassis pillar would easily correct that problem.

Have also deemed the Spectre intake plenum suitable to allow about .125 to be milled off its carb flange.

I want to shave all possible height before installation. Would hate to get things all buttoned up only to find another 1/4" was needed for the flat screen to properly mount.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
With everything removed from 2511 I intend to mill all four mounting faces of the two aluminum engine mount assemblies.

While I will rely on my machinist's recommendation I see no reason why each of the four faces cannot be shaved by at least one 16th of an inch.

Mike Drew's blue thunder assembly fit OK until he replaced his rubber engine mount biscuits, showing that every fraction of an inch can be of value in the overall height reducing efforts.

I will update this post with the observed height reduction once the milling is finished.

Larry

Larry, there's considerably more than 1/16" to be had just by how much you compress the rubber engine isolator. I would think you could easily shave 1/4" off the lower ones. As far as milling the mounts, Jack DeRyke cut and sectioned his mounts and dropped the entire engine/TA assy by at least an inch IIRC. -That's a hole inch and a lower CG, and yes the pan may protrude below the frame rails. Not sure of your ride height but if you really think you're at risk of bottoming your chassis, bolt a skid plate over it. There are a few other things that will need to be potentially attended to but you gain a lot of height. Search Jack's thread on the subject.

Lastly, if you mill the carb pad on a slanted intake, be advised the studs are still angled. If you're only mounting the thickness of a carb flange it's not much of a problem but if you ever decide to put any significant height spacer on the intake it can be. While it's in the mill, I always redrill the holes perpendicular to the pad and install threaded inserts. Even though you're looking to pick up some height, you might be surprised how sensitive your engine performance can be to that carb spacer and even the style of spacer. Ask Dave and Dan what they typically see.....20-30HP with my combo.

Best,
Kelly