Electrical Fizzle, Smoke and Death

Sounds like you're describing an ammeter fire. Perhaps one of the fuel gauge's leads was resting against one of the ammeter terminals. If the contacts on the back of the ammeter aren't tight, they get hot and eventually set the rubber boots on fire. If you're lucky, the only damage is to the ammeter itself. Just undo the three gauge panel screws and have a look at the rear of your ammeter. If it was indeed the cause of all the smoke, it should be obvious.

The solution has been discussed in the PI Forums many, many times.

This should be obvious - but ....

Be sure to disconnect the battery before starting any diagnostic efforts. This avoids adding any more damage, and perhaps masking the source of the original problem. Good luck and let us know what you find.

quote:

smoke came from behind the dash filling all the guages

You may want to pick up some of this to help your repairs?

Larry

Ever helpful Larry, but that is the positive earth (ground) version and part number!

Good catch, Joules.

Did not mean to confuse the newbies that may not have learned all the intricate quirks of our wiring systems.

Believe this is the correct item for our cars.
Larry

Hey Dave

Sorry you're having problems. Sometimes the Italian mistress has to remind us she needs a certain amount of attention.

If its the ammeter, consider replacing it with the item below. Available from Hall Pantera.

+1 on the voltmeter from Hall. Just installed it.

I have the bilingual European voltmeter!

Other than eliminating a fire hazard, an added benefit of switching to a voltmeter is, it makes removing the gauge panel much easier.

Here's a good "ammeter vs. voltmeter" article:

http://www.autometer.com/resou...index/faq_view/id/18

First off i would like to tank everyone for their support. I took the center console off and looked at the guages. there was no evidence of burn at the amp, gas or water pressure.

the water and gas are clean

oil pressure had two loose wires.......but again nothing burnt? Any subsequent suggestions would be appreciated.

was any fuses blown (#12)?

how does it look around ignition switch

is your wiring fairly original, what mods made

Just on the Voltmeter/Ammeter, I always wonder when there are only advantages on one thing and the other thing was more of a hassle, why did the factory or anybody install an Ammeter with the more complicated wiring? There must be advantages to the Ammeter?

I had a similar experience, it turned out to be a positive and ground wire burned through the insulation, go through all the wires one by one, mine was not easy to see as the two wires appeared fine until I found that they were fused together.

dave;
I'll take a shot:
Since you state it started with your gas gauge dropping to empty, filling with smoke, etc.
Do you still have continuity with the yellow wire and the white/black wire from the fuel tank sending unit to the gauge? Did the low fuel light illuminate before going to empty. You should also have a yellow/black wire for bulb illumination hooked in series with the other gauges, as well as a pink wire in series with the other gauges. Does continuity exist through all the gauges? Also does the black ground wire make a good ground?
I guess with this description, I am attempting to isolate the fuel gauge as being the sole culprit, possibly within the gauge itself and showing no signs of external damage.
The wire colors I'm describing relate to my car but seems to be rather universal with the gauge wiring.

Checked all grounds, pulled center dash, nothing burnt, traced wire pigtails, nothing burnt, turns out main power failure from incoming power. archflash causing break in wire. Replaced simple powerwire, 4072 came back to life.....thanks to all. Love this forum!

After all said and done i think i need to take some advise, get rid of the Amp meter and replace with a volt meter. Too bad they are predicting snow tomorrow or we would be going for a ride!

If you are looking to keep a stock look, here are a few options for you, in no particular order. #1 One would be the Volt meter from Hall Pantera. Looks very close but not exact to the stock gauge. #2 Have a gauge company like Redline Gauge works or Hollywood Clock take your old Amp gauge and keep the stock face while replacing the internals to a volt meter. I was quoted around $240. #3 Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics) is also now modifying the stock gauge to never burn up listed on his website at $249. Good luck

...Second Gauge from the Bottom.
I Like RED Digital Led.
Digital is most Accurate over Analog, In My Opinion.
Reading 11.9 Volts, Engine off, Key On.
Just after Starting the Engine, the Gauge will read 14.0+ Volts, Battery Charging. When the Battery has Rejuvenated, the reading lowers Down to 13.3-13.4 Volts Cruising.
Yes, I did eliminate the Amp Gauge, Just Bolted Both Cables together, and Insulated the Connection with 2 Layers of the Thickest INDUSTRIAL Shrink Tubing....a Great 'Peace of Mind' !! If Memory Serves, the Gauge Reads the Voltage off the Ignition, Or was it the 'Main Feed'?

...For the Curious..
The Mini Toggle switch at the very top, marked 'Oil Temps', switches from reading the Engine oil to reading the Transaxle Oil, Temps.
This Gauge is the 4th Gauge, Mounted at the Bottom. (just the location it ended up)
The First, Top Gauge Reads 'Engine Coolant' Temp. Now reading 80F 'Garage' Temp as the Engine has Not been Run.
The Second Gauge, from the Top, Reads 'Engine Oil Pressure'. It now Scrolls 'LO' as the Engine is OFF, and it BLINKS On and Off, when the Pressure Drops Below 40 PSI. This Reading is Taken off the Very Rear Oil Port, in the Block (Stock Location for the Sender), expecting to receive the Lowest Reading Possible. If it were to 'sense' Directly off the Oil Pump, the Reading would be the Highest, but would Not be a True reading of the Actual Oil Pressure the Engine is Receiving, Through-Out.
The Bottom Temp Gauge, Now Switched to read Engine Oil Temp, reads a 'Garage Temperature' of 77F, Taken at the Twin Oil Filters, Before the Oil Cooler, All 3 Located at the Rear of the Pantera, AC Screen. ( the AC Condenser has been eliminated, and the wiring now runs a Fan on the Oil Cooler).
While the 'Engine Coolant', Taken at the 'Common' Location in the Block, just above the Waterpump...reads the Garage Ambient Temperature at 80F....interesting. Could be a Difference in the Resistance of each Wire, and/or The Senders, Themselves. The Senders Are Identical.
I posted this to perhaps Spark a few Ideas.

Nice auxeriary instumentation!

the battery at 11.9VDC is pretty low

Marlin -

That looks like "Robocar"!

I mean it as a compliment!

Rocky

...Your Right!
11.9 Volts IS low, but not when you consider...
The car has sat un-started for a Month, The Key is ON and I have been Listening to the Radio and Disk Player for over an Hour. And all accessories are running, an Electric Antennae was raised, door lights, Windows Powered Down, etc. and on and on. The Engine will still fire right up.
When I first Turned the Key On, the Reading was 12.4 Volts. At this time I am Not using a 'Battery Tender'.

Thank You for Posting the Chart.

Rocky, Compliment taken, Thank You!

Marlin Jack; Curious as to where you're tapping into the transaxle to receive a temperature reading. Fill location?

quote:

Originally posted by JAG13CAT:
Marlin Jack; Curious as to where you're tapping into the transaxle to receive a temperature reading. Fill location?

...Yes, Exactly! I have a 90 Degree Fitting there, pointing Straight Up, so I can place a Funnel in it for filling. The 'Cap' is a Threaded Reducer for the 1/8 NPT Temp Sender. Make sure the Transaxle Housing has received a Proper 'Grounding'. The Sender just dips into the oil Level.

My Apologies for Hijacking this Thread!!!