Electronic Rust Protection

Rodger,

This is a very old idea. Here in England where it sometimes rains for 100 days consecutively, and they salt the roads for 5 months of the year, we know a thing or two about rust!

They used to sell these things back in the 70's, they do not work, it's just a trick.

If you want to protect your car from rust you must cavity wax it. This is not to be confused with waxoil. Waxoil has a much thicker viscosity, and is designed to be sprayed onto the underside of your car. Cavity wax is designed for inside box sections (cavities). In the past I have worked on cars that have had huge amounts of wax oil sprayed inside a door. Too much of a good thing is not good in this case because it congeals. I was able to lift it out in one solid waxy lump to reveal the rust going about it's business underneath.

There are 2 ways to get cavity wax inside your box sections. One is to buy a dedicated injection gun. This is basically a spray gun with a long hose on the end. As the cavity wax gets to the end of the hose, it hits a little defuser that makes it "mist" in all directions.

Another method is to buy to cavity wax in aerosol cans. This is my preferred method for most applications. These cans come with a little pipe like a WD40 can. So you only need to drill a tiny hole to get it into the box section. I bend the end of the pipe to get it to go around corners. I also sometimes join 2 pipes together with a bit of heat shrink to get that bit further.


Don't be afraid to drill little holes in the various box section under your car. This is the best wax to get it in there. But dont drill any holes close to suspension pickup points, or around the rear cross member (the one under the back of the Tranny) But do pay particular attention to the 2 rounded rear upright chassis sections, the ones that holds the top rear A arm. In this area I suggest you enlarge the drain holes in the bottom, and inject the cavity wax from there. I think from memory there is also a little hole at the top. And whilst you are under there, make sure that all the factory drain holes are unblocked and doing there job. These drain holes are also a good place to get the cavity wax in.

Pantera rockers have 2 different compartments. Inner and outer. So keep this in mind when injecting. Also remember there is a LIVE BATTERY CABLE in the right hand rocker.
It will also be necessary to remove the seat belt inertia reel from the rocker to prevent it getting covered in wax.

My favourite brands of cavity wax are Dintrol, and a couple of brands manufactured by Loctite (Plastic padding) and (Teroson) I dont know if any of these brands are available in the USA.

The best way of all to stop your pantera rusting is to keep it in a dehumidified garage. An ideal humidity level 50% relative humidity. This is dry enough to stop rust, but not dry enough to dehydrate leather or rubber seals.

Johnny

Great info-thanks. The website is pretty convincing tho. I guess you will never become a believer unless you try it. Technology has got to improve over the years. Rodger -I think you should try it buddy, and report back to the group!
From rusty Hawaii

I've seen guys who have that on their cars here and have more rust than other vehicles without it. A friend of mine is a machinest / welder / metallugist says that there really is no way to completely stop rust, only slow it down. He told me to periodically spray LPS, WD40, or similar into the frame, cracks and crevices etc. and that would pretty much keep rust at bay and probably last beyond my lifetime.

In my experience, WD40 type penitrating oils are too thin to act as a long term rust inhibitor.
I used to poor old engine oil into the rockers, doors, A and B posts of my Alfa Spider. But found it would just wash away in a few months. Water would run down inside the doors and drain out the bottom, taking the oil with it every time I washed the car. This was also the case with the rear section of the rocker, because the hood gutter would drain directly into it, and then out of the bottom.

Water should not get into the Pantera rockers. But will certainly be running through the doors every time you wash your car. So WD40 would be washed away in no time. Cavity wax is designed not to wash away. I have found that it will last about 2 years inside the door of a daily driven car. And much longer where there is no water.

In fact, I recently cut the A post open on another Alfa spider, a 1981 car, and found the original factory cavity waxing done by Alfa Romeo. Sadly, this was such a half-hearted attempt, they had simply drilled a hole in the top of the A post and sprayed a bit in, without making any attempt to wiggle the nozzle to cover all surfaces. The area that the wax did reach, had no rust at all, and the wax was still sticky after 24 years! But the area that it did not reach was very rusty.

The Pantera door skin has a water trap along the bottom edge. Every time you wash your car, water runs down past the glass, into the door, and them out the bottom through the drain holes. Unfortunately, some of this water will find it's way into the spot welded seam and just sit there until it dries. This is why you need cavity wax. It will fill these little gaps and crevices and stop the water getting in there. Auto body seam sealant is designed for this purpose, and works very well. But is not suitable for this area because it would block the drain holes. And paint just cracks when you try to fill a gap with it. I like cavity wax!

Johnny

WD-40 is more closely related to a cleaner then a rust protectant. It stands for water displacement. Has some specific short term applications but if you use WD-40 you will REMOVE all rust protective oils.

Gary

A diesel mechanic here in Hawaii said to use a garden sprayer and put diesel fuel in it and spray the whole under carraige. He swears by it.

My car doesn't see any rain or wash water if I can help it, trying to preserve it for as long as I can. You are correct that WD40 is thin and more like a water displacer, I prefer to use LPS3 but I got a great deal on 5 gallon pails of WD40 ($10.00 from a local shop closeout), so I put it in a Hudson sprayer and will use it until it runs out. I spray the car chassis down after any cruises near the ocean or once a month.

The issue I see with the WD40 or diesel fuel approach is that you have to redo it periodically. Additionally, they may attract and hold dirt which then holds the water in the nasty little nooks and crannies, a sure way to get rust.

Jeff
6559

The cavity wax method would seem to have a weakness. If you fill, say the bottom of the door up to a certain level, and even then make sure the drain holes are still open, unless you fill the door all the way to the top, when water gets in it will find a new, higher level (on top of the wax, instead of the bottom of the door) to sit and rust. This would also be true in all cavities where water can get in unless the cavity is completely filled.

Or am I just not seeing something here?

And does anyone really wash (hose, dripping sponges, sudsy soap) their Pantera? !!

Larry

What you are talking about is called cathodic protection, and it is commonly used on large ships, piers, and other large metallic structures that are in contact with salt water.

The theory is sound, as a sacrificial node is used, and in practice it works just fine on the structures I mention above. But I have not heard of any independant reviews of it in an automotive application.

The chemistry behind it is pretty straightforward, but if it really worked as advertised we would have hear more about it a long time ago. So I wonder what the problem is?

Larry,

I apologise for not explaining myself properly. What I was really trying to get across is the difference between waxoil, designed to spray onto the under side of a car, and cavity wax designed for inside chassis members and box sections.
Some time ago I worked on a car that had huge quantities of waxoil sprayed into the bottom of it's doors.
I was able to lift it out in one solid lump. So all it was really doing is weighing the car down.
Cavity wax is so much thinner than waxoil, if you did spay too much into a door or chassis member, it would just run out of the drain hole like engine oil. But unlike engine oil, it will leave waxy waterproof coating that will last a long time with water running over it, and 25 years + without water running over it.
Waxoil on the other hand, is thick enough to block drain holes. Before I learned about cavity wax, I used to put the waxoil container into a vessel of boiling water to thin it's viscosity.

I dont feel it is necessary to coat the under side of car with waxoil if it is well painted with some kind of rubberised paint. I would only spray waxoil under there if it was a scruffy car with areas of the rubberised paint peeling off and rust showing on the bottom of the petrol tank, etc. I often spray waxoil onto Japanese cars sumps (oil pan). Here in the UK it is very common for Jap cars to have oil pans rust right through from the outside in, because they never leak any oil!

I have not sprayed the underside of my Pantera with waxoil and never will. Cars rust from the inside out. That's why I am an avid cavity waxer.

If anyone is considering the ghastly job of stripping the underside of there Pantera back to bare metal and repainting it. I would be happy to start a new thread and tell you best methods, and the correct paints to use.

Johnny

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
If anyone is considering the ghastly job of stripping the underside of there Pantera back to bare metal and repainting it. I would be happy to start a new thread and tell you best methods, and the correct paints to use.

Johnny

I'd be interested!

Also, how about just media blasting the underside?

Josh

quote:

Originally posted by JK:
Also, how about just media blasting the underside?

Ah, if it were only that easy. Alas, the undercoating demands scraping before blasting; a truly dirty and time consuming labor of love that only a true Panterista would find pleasure in doing.

(I suggest going down to your local day labor shop and hiring someone.)

Jeff (Been there, done that.)
6559

And here I thought it was safe to retire my scraper after I removed all that gunk from the engine bay...

Thanks Jeff

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_ae...eHandler/output_html

Kind of a big link but this is the 3M product called rust fighter. A waxy based product to spray into rocker panels and doors. Applys with a schutz gun (undercoating low pressure sprayer) also has a wand that is 3 feet long for tight places. I used it, and was easy to apply. Thin and self healing if scratched. Your milage may vary!

For those of you whose Pantera gets wet...

I've just spent many hours rust proofing #4012 with Dinitrol 3125. Haven't finished yet.
I've done all chassis sections behind the doors.
I drilled a few holes and plugged them after with plastic plugs.

There are a few water/mud traps in the back end of the Pantera.

The first is between the chassis mounts for the lower a-arm. Mud and leaves can get trapped in this area and will rot the side of the box section. My car didn't seem to have any drain holes for this area - it does now.

Another is where the battery lead exits the sill/rocker in front the right side wheel.
Muck and water can get into the sill/rocker by running down the cable. This then collects in the area where sill/rocker joins the post that is behind the door. It will rot out bottom of the post and lower part of the sill/rocker. The aluminium splash keeps most of it out - but not all.

A third is the chassis section behind the wheel at rear of the wheel well. This has a drain hole about an inch from the bottom of the chassis section. I found mine full of muck so I cleaned it out, drilled a drain hole at the bottom and sprayed the inside with Dinitrol.

I keep the rust away from my Pantera by parking a Spitfire next to it in the garage. All the rust just goes right to that.

Terry,

Your Spitfire is "sacrificial metal".

George