Engine options

I have a question were would you put the LPG bottle?

Bottle(s) probably - Various places I suppose - and probably in the spare wheel area.

Phil,
If you are not concerned with originality why not something easier to obtain secondhand in the UK like an aluminium V8 from BMW (740/840 or 750/850) or Jaguar (XJR8 or XK8/XKR8). There must be plenty of these in the breakers yards.

Or even a Range Rover 4.6, as these can be tuned to give a reasonable, but not huge, amount of power.

Lots of reasons: Range Rover and Jag engines are shoite.
Big Beemer engines difficult and expensive to gas - expensive to fix, and complicated with all the electronics. Plus, adapter kits not commercially available it appears.
I will have a quick squint at the idea though.

FWIW I can get a 351W any time I like from about 60 miles down the road for about £250.00

I'm thinking this is the way to go unless I get told otherwise.

Phil

250 quid is a fairly persuasive argument for the Windsor. I was expecting more like the 2 to 4 grand that Real Steel want for new/rebuilt units.
The 850 v12 motor is pretty poor on the petrol, you are looking at about 13 to the gallon (imperial), but I'd guess an 850 weighs a lot more than a Pantera.
The BMW thing has been done a few times - a search of these forums for "BMW v8" should be interesting.
The windsor is definately the simplest route...

FWIW i'm now looking at Audi V8's - for the main reason that they will bolt straight to my prefered gearbox. The 4.2 pushes 280 hp allegedly - and there's one on ebay that's 6 miles up the road from me that's currently on £1 - no bids.....hmmmmm.....

Audi,
I forgot about those.
There's quite a bit of tuning potential too.

RaceTune.com quote 310bhp for the standard engine and 325bhp with their tuning kit.

p.s. You can get 329bhp from the diesel v8! .

Audi...BMW...Jaguar...Range Rover...

What about VW or Porsche?? Old VW bug engines must be avilable for less than 250 quid and they are really economical You won't even have to worry about water cooling problems!!

On a serious note; you can get a 351W for 250 GBP (~$500) need you really contemplate any more. The Pantera is supposed to have a Ford V8 in it and for a gearbox if it came to it you could probably get a Porsche transaxle and conversion kit for it.

How about a 351C out of a Pantera .. completely feshened up and ready to go ... slightly hotter then stock.

Ron

OK, radical idea here. Get an engine and tranny from a wrecked VW GTI, the W-6 model. Add twin turbos and you have 500 horsepower engine that gets 30+ MPG and the whole thing weighs less than the standard engine/tranny. Yes it will sit in the rear sideways, but that only makes it easier to get to and work on. No, you will not be able to still have the tub trunk, but you still have the trunk up front.

I believe in keeping it Ford. The 351W is probably the easiest and most straight forward swap. The Windsor will bolt directly to the Cleveland ZF/bellhousing, so the swap doesn't require an adaptor. Others who have done it can provide specifics about custom headers, water tubes, etc. I think our vendors carry everything you need.

As far as the Ford cammers limited availability, I believe the Jag XJ8's and XK8's carry largely the same engine. Do a little research, but I think you could easily use one of the Jag V8's and do the conversion just like any of the Ford cammer conversions.

Several BMW V8 conversions have been done to Panteras over there too. Check out my website for some videos of these cars.
http://www.banzairunnerpantera.com/movie_dtinfilm.htm

I don't know anything about the Audi engine, but if you have one with a gearbox, and it fits the Pantera engine bay, I'm sure you could fab the necessary engine mounts and exhaust.

And, to avoid those outrageous fuel costs, how about an Electric conversion. The Tesla Roadster does 0-60 in 4 seconds and has a range of 250 miles. You could get a range of over 100 miles with a conversion. And, we haven't seen that in a Pantera, yet. Then you wouldn't need to worry about Windsor, Cleveland, Jag, Audi engines and components. No oil to change, no starters to replace, no headers to fab, no LPG tanks or carburetors to mess with, no valves to adjust. Just kidding.

Keep us posted on whatever you decide.

Didn't some of the Pantera 2000's come with BMW V-8's? I know the early Garua's had BMW V-8's, but they didn't have ZF's.

Well, can't comment on the LPG issue, but the 351 W is a pretty good engine with smaller intake ports than the cleveland, but from what I understand a much larger base of aftermarket and go fast parts available today(others on the formum I'm sure can comment)because the Windsor was produced for a longer time up until 1996. The 351 C breaths great due to the huge ports in the heads because it was designed for Nascar where the motor would run at 6,000+ RPM, I think if I was going to do a complete engine change I would seriously consider the 351 W....you can stroke it to 427 inches, there's a ton of parts available...not sure if it will bolt up to the ZF easily? I believe that since the motor was produced for almost 15 to 20 years longer than the Cleveland there is a greater base of used motors out there for enthusiasts hence I would expect cheaper prices also. Below is a some info from the Wikipedia dictionary on the Windsor motor. Good luck with the project.

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The Windsor engine is a 90-degree small-block V8 from Ford Motor Company. It was introduced in 1962, replacing the old Ford Y-block engine. Though not all of the engines in this family were produced at the Windsor, Ontario engine plant (all Ford small blocks came from Cleveland, Ohio until 1966), the name stuck. The mid-sized 335 "Cleveland" V8, introduced in 1970, was to replace the larger Windsors, but this design ended up outliving its replacement. In 1991, the Windsor engine began to be phased out and replaced with Ford's new 4.6 L modular V8 engine, which was disliked by many because of the overhead cam valvetrain as opposed to the more traditional "muscle carish" pushrod V8 with overhead valves that Chevy stuck with in their GM LS engine line. In 1996, Ford replaced the popular 5.0 L pushrod V8 with the 4.6 L in their flagship vehicle, the Ford Mustang.

I think the only real disadvantage of the Cleveland is it's ability to cope with high stress i.e. high HP &/or RPM, due to thin walled cylinders and a dubious oiling system. Aftermarket 9.2" deck height blocks are available and those issues can be addressed.

The Windsor can easily be made to breath as well as the Cleveland, by simple use of the Cleveland heads to make a 'Clevor' engine.

Here's some more info on the Ford Modular motor....I did not realize that is was produced in a V10!!! That would be sexy to say I've got a V10 in my pantera...But I'm sure that if the V8's are expensive and scarce the V10 might be worse...plus I have no idea if it would perform well??? Below it notes that the V10 was used in trucks so it might be a stump puller with tons of torque and no reving capability.

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The Modular engine, or "mod motor" as it is often referred to, is Ford Motor Company's modern overhead camshaft (OHC) V8 and V10 engine family. It gradually replaced the Windsor small-block and 385 big-block engines over several years in the mid-1990s. Contrary to popular belief, the Modular engine did not get its name from its design or sharing of certain parts among the engine family. Instead, the name was derived from a manufacturing plant protocol, "Modular", where the plant and its tooling could be changed out in a matter of hours to manufacture different versions of the engine family. [1]. It is used in Ford trucks, (called the Triton) in Lincolns (called Intech) and in Ford and Mercury cars. In 2004 (2002 in Australia) Ford introduced a 3-valve SOHC with a Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) system, and this engine will eventually phase out the 2-valve SOHC, although it has temporarily replaced a 4-valve DOHC engine in the Lincoln Navigator.

The engines were first produced in Romeo, Michigan but additional capacity was added in Windsor, Ontario.

427 Cubic Inch, CHI Headed Clevor
713 Peek HP @ 7000 RPM
580 ft/lbs of Torque @ 5600 RPM

You can get this package for around $15K delivered as a turn key, run-in, dynoed engine from McKeown Motor Sport Engineering (301) 246-9225.

More HP than anything currently being fielded by Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, Chevrolet, etc.

A lot of bang for your buck any way you slice it.

quote:

427 Cubic Inch, CHI Headed Clevor
713 Peek HP @ 7000 RPM
580 ft/lbs of Torque @ 5600 RPM

Do you think are Pantera can handle that much power without twisting are engine compartment out of wack.Would be nice trying.

Current position:

Looked at the Audi 4.2 - but very rare as a manual - so flywheels difficult to get unless I get a billet ally one. I've not totally discounted this but.....
It looks like I can replicate an early Guara setup for realative peanuts. 4.0l Beemer engines are dirt cheap over here. Lots are manual. And someone on here must know what the interface parts are between that and an Audi 'box? (Hoping)....

Phil