Engine started and then died - help

Go back to basics. An engine needs two things to run. Ignition spark and fuel.

Your ignition unfortunately is complex, but I see two components in there that in the past for me created situations exactly, not just like...this.


Guess what? NO ONE wants to hear it from me but MSD's will ALWAYS come back to haunt you just like Dickens 'Ghost of Christmas' Past'. For me, they would work one minute, then gone the next. No apparent reason what so ever.

The Mallory UNILITE distributor was an issue FOR ME as well. (Now that was a predictable comment coming from me...right?) I only tried one, in another car but it died in a manor not unlike the MSD did.

In somewhat of a defense of both, high humidity and sudden changes in temperature from cold to hot SEEM to be involved in both failures.

At the time, I was into "drag racing thinking" and just changed out the MSD 6A for another. After three at three to four month intervals, I just went to the complete Motorcraft pointless system and those gremlins disappeared forever. That was thirty five years ago.

Is the quality of the MSD 6A better now? I would hope so. ACCELL likes them so they bought the company. Time will tell right?



I went with DEPENDABILITY. As much as I could put into the engine. That entailed two things. 1) a Ford Motorsport A341 version of the Motorcraft pointless distributor 2) a Pantera Electronics ignition. It replace the "Ford" brain.

So far, no more issues. It cleans the plugs that the Webers have the tendency to foul and I do not have nightmares involving the "Ghost of Christmas Future".


These are just my experiences. "Your mileage may vary". It's kind of like explaining things to your kids with all the warnings and the like and the next thing is you get a call at 5am that the Police have the #1 (Asian lingo for the oldest son) locked up on a DWI and "come and get the car now before that gets impounded too".

The reality is you can't help people avoid this crap. No one listens. Parents are just "Royal Whores" anyway, right? They just have to figure it out for themselves? Maybe when everyone is sitting around at my "Wake", people will sit and talk about how I saw all of this stuff coming and they should have/could have listened?

Probably the subject of how much MSD's suck will come up at some point?

Doesn't matter for me, I'll be dead, and "you'll" (nothing personal, just a generalism) have to learn WHY all for yourself anyway? LOL!



The Haltech I have no experience with but even if you carried a spare "everything" with you, you still can't work on this car along the roadside anyway. Just get tow insurance coverage and have them flatbed the car to the place of your choice.

That helps me out. At one point I had decided that my next "second car" was going to be a flatbed truck?



Best with the car.

With the fuel pump priming it sounds like you have at least some electrics working back there.
You can test the MSD box using a couple of the tests out there. http://www.msdignition.com/page.aspx?id=3206
Not Doug's favorite piece of electronics.
Check the distributor rotor is spinning and the pin has not shearing or slipped. Grab the rotor and rotate it and see if it returns back to 'home' or returns back same position after trying to turn it. Also check that rotor has not just slipped to a new position by checking the rotor aligns with #1 spark plug terminal on the cap with the crank at #1 firing position.
Let us know what you find out.

quote:

Originally posted by bdud:
With the fuel pump priming it sounds like you have at least some electrics working back there.
You can test the MSD box using a couple of the tests out there. http://www.msdignition.com/page.aspx?id=3206
Not Doug's favorite piece of electronics.
Check the distributor rotor is spinning and the pin has not shearing or slipped. Grab the rotor and rotate it and see if it returns back to 'home' or returns back same position after trying to turn it. Also check that rotor has not just slipped to a new position by checking the rotor aligns with #1 spark plug terminal on the cap with the crank at #1 firing position.
Let us know what you find out.

One thing that I found with the MSD 6A, is that you can do this test and it checks ok, but if you check at the plugs, you may have no spark.

In this case you have to look at the conditions of the spark plugs. It is possible that your plugs are fouled. "Fouled", defined as having TOO MUCH resistance for the MSD to fire.

An MSD WILL NOT FIRE fouled plugs. If that is the case, don't even clean the plugs. Just change them out to new ones. See if that fixes the issue. If it does consider using the Pantera Electronics ignition. It not only will fire them, it cleans them up.

http://pantera-electronics.com/eis.htm Watch the videos.

As far as I know, it is the ONLY ignition control on the planet that does. Something to think about?


I don't hate the MSD. I just find it overly complicates something that it should be simplifying. Plus the El Paso group was hostile OR they were just hung over from too much Tequila last night?

I think ACCELL is going to fire them all and move everything to Tennessee anyway?

I'm off to troubleshoot this issue. I watched the vids on testing the MSD box, I'll conduct those tests, and then move on to the distriutor if the coil checks out.

It just bugs me that JUUSSTT after I work on the car, it takes a dump, so I feel like it's something I did, maybe knocked a wire loose, something.

Anyways, wish me luck!

Sorry to hear of your troubles. A wise old motorhead told me once that you always trade reliability for horsepower. I've resisted the HP pursuit and found that advice correct. Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
I'm off to troubleshoot this issue. I watched the vids on testing the MSD box, I'll conduct those tests, and then move on to the distriutor if the coil checks out.

It just bugs me that JUUSSTT after I work on the car, it takes a dump, so I feel like it's something I did, maybe knocked a wire loose, something.

Anyways, wish me luck!

I of course wish you the best of everything but all symptoms that you are describing sounds just like another case of the haunting of the "Ghosts of MSD's Past". They REALLY get spooky!

I even tried a "Witch doctor" at one point but if you decide to go that way DO NOT pay him all in advance. I did and he never showed up. Seems that he got deported as an illegal before he could get to me?

The thing is there's nothing terribly complex about this ignition system. I'm just not the best troublshooter.

I have someone coming tomorrow who knows their stuff, he'll be able to test the parts I didn't, and hopefully we can nail this down.

I spent 2 days replacing the unilite unit in the distributor (total PITA) but I'm 99% sure it's just something stupid simple.

It's just funny how it happened JUUUST after we changed the fluids. I was careful to touch nothing else, but when we were done it fired for one second and then died. Coincidence? we'll find out tomorrow!

What did you test and find out?
The MSD box can be disconnected to test you get a spark. It might be linked into the EFI so your engine may not start or run but you should be able to test the spark.
12v on the low voltage side?

Going today to test the coil and MSD box.

I watched the video on testing the MSD box, and when I first started poking around with my DMM, the upper covers were on so I didn't get a chance to check for voltage to the coil, or test the coil with the ohmmeter.

Hopefully it's something stupid like the coil just decided to die right then, or the MSD box died.

If we don't figure it out today, I've contacted a shop that does hotrods and is familiar with these parts, and is not booked up, so it'll either get running today or I'll be arranging a tow to the shop.

Hi Mike,
I run a Mallory unilite. I understand they are easily damaged by voltage spikes. Mallory sells a power filter , you can find it at Summit racing.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-29351/overview/

I installed one without the MSD ignition box , have a Mallory coil. I do carry a spare unilite trigger module and hope to NEVER change it on the side of the road.

Here is a link on how to test the unilite module .

http://prestoliteperformance.c...n_module_605_609.pdf

The trouble shooting guide has both optical and magnetic triggered. There is a list of things that can damage the unilite in the guide.
I would think a bad distributor would stop the injectors and spark . That might be a clue MSD box or distributor. A good distributor but bad MSD the injectors might still pulse but no spark.
I am assuming you have a batch fire injection or a throttle body set up vs multi port sequential.
Good luck and hope to hear you fixed it rather than a shop.

Mike I have a "SPARE" msd IF YOU PROMISE TO SEND IT BACK you can borrow it to check yours out if yours is bad make me a reasonable offer, if yours is good (ie mine does the same thing) send it back. don't return it and don't tell me and well lets just say I'm Italian

quote:

Originally posted by Joe 1974 L #6656:
Mike I have a "SPARE" msd IF YOU PROMISE TO SEND IT BACK you can borrow it to check yours out if yours is bad make me a reasonable offer, if yours is good (ie mine does the same thing) send it back. don't return it and don't tell me and well lets just say I'm Italian

Hey Joe; Might was well just call Mike..."Luca"...Mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETcwLvUy-Og

Sounds like another MSD box gone bad. (Might Suddenly Die).

You'd be better off without the MSD (even if it does still work) and change your coil (if it is the old oil filled cylindrical type) to a more modern e-coil.

Used a jumper to eliminate the MSD from the equation.

With the MSD hooke up, I got zero volts from hot on the coil to ground.

With the jumper installed, I got 12 volts at the hot on the coil to ground, so Yee Haww! I should have spark, but no spark.

I also noticed after all this cranking that my oil pressure never moved.

I was warned that the 351's were known for shearing the distributor gear shaft pins, and was told to check and make sure the rotor was spinning.

Well, rotor no-spinny, so we have a broken distributor gear shaft pin.

Roger gave me a bag of stuff, which included 2 spare gears and extra pins, so I'm good to go.

Tomorrow I'm towing the car back to my house so I can work on it at home. I can do 99% of the work, I plan to mark all the plug wires so they go back into their respective holes in the cap, remove and fix the distributor, and reinstall it.

It is just such a TOTAL BITCH to work up there where the distributor is. I may pull the seats and firewall, and change the fan belt while things are open.

I may just mark all the plug wires and pop them off, and I can fairly easily do the job from the backside.

I was able to change out a unilite module without dropping any screws down into anything, basically did it blind with dental mirrors and needle nose pliers, but I got the new module installed, all to no avail though, since it was the sheared pin that was the issue.

I'm going to get the car towed home, get the rear decklid safely home, and then throw a cover over the car and forget about the car for a few days.

Sucks this happens just after I buy the car.

I'll know the car better, and appreciate the car more once I get it running again.

It isn't necessarily just a 351c issue with shearing the gear pin.

This has been discussed here before.

The Mallory distributor was not mentioned by anyone as having that issue. Neither have the newer MSD units.

This would tend to explain why the MSD 6a isn't firing also. It isn't seeing the on/off signal from the distributor to make the coil charge and discharge. So you still need to verify that after you change the distributor out.

Avoid "rebuilt" distributors of any kind. Including the Ford/Motorcraft and any of it's variants.

The ONLY common denominator with pin failure in them, is that someone else has had them disassembled after they were build new.

Unfortunately there is no way to check the quality of roll pins. I haven't looked but maybe ARP list some? I would feel comfortable with that.

As I said, I am running a "Ford MotorSPORT" 341A "racing" distributor. It is a double pinned gear.

Agreeing with others here too, get rid of the "coil in a can" coil. Go to the newer coils.

Agreed on the location of the distributor. This is one time that a GM/Chevy would be helpful.

The "MSD Ghost of Christmas Future" is visiting you now. Ask him as you look at your name on the gravestone, "is this something that WILL be or is this just something that MIGHT be?" The MSD Tech Support will never answer that question. Screw them.

You can call Jon Haas ANYTIME and bug the crap out of him. His Pantera-Electronics ignition even works with the silly coc-a-mami Mallory distributor that HE runs? Huh! Go figure?

(psst: tell 'im I sent ya! )

I just replaced the gear on my Unilite. The roll pin has been replaced by a larger one. When I asked the guys at Summit about the change, they said it was due to all the problems in the past with shearing.

Just thought of something. On the MSD box there is a thin white wire that if grounded will not allow the spark. I have that wire run to the ground with a hidden toggle switch to ground it when I park. Maybe that wire was bumped and is toughing a ground, that would not let it start.

HTH

On the roll shear pin. I drilled an additional hole so I have 2 pins 90 degrees apart and about a 1/4 in vertical apart. Has been good for years.

There is actually an additional consideration to look at here as well.

The compatibility of the camshaft gears and the distributor gear needs to be looked at.

The "roller lifter" camshafts are being made from steel vs. cast iron for flat tappet cams.

1) you have to have the "correct compatible distributor gear" for that application. In that case it is a "bronze" gear which is NOT included ordinarily. You have to order that separately and install it yourself.

2) many if not most aftermarket iron camshaft blanks are being sourced from "off shores" suppliers. Quality control, any quality control by anyone along the line is questionable. Compcams would actually have to pay a real live person to do that here. Not going to happen. Cuts into the Exec's party slush fund.

That is for price consideration. Camshafts are "price sensitive".

An "insider" told me "off the record" that these companies, including CompCams are just loading three or four cam blanks into cam grinding "slave" machines and no one is checking them for quality before or after they are ground.

I personally had a brand new CompCams solid lifter small block cam missing teeth on the camshaft itself, fresh out of the box as delivered by CompCams.

There was no packaging damage and no external indication of any suggestion of damage.

Now get this, CompCams replaced the camshaft as a "courtesy" to me. They said that damage was not covered under their warranty AND I had to return it to them AT MY EXPENSE for an exchange.

Nice hey? All of these companies suck if you ask me...BUT DON'T GET ME STARTED ON COMPCAMS TOO!

ICE boxes I have never fails. Strange that I'm the only Panterist that use them. They're more expensive, but on this forum people are usually more interested in quality than in low price. Did I mention I can change my ignition curve while driving?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It isn't necessarily just a 351c issue with shearing the gear pin.

This has been discussed here before.

The Mallory distributor was not mentioned by anyone as having that issue. Neither have the newer MSD units.

This would tend to explain why the MSD 6a isn't firing also. It isn't seeing the on/off signal from the distributor to make the coil charge and discharge. So you still need to verify that after you change the distributor out.

Avoid "rebuilt" distributors of any kind. Including the Ford/Motorcraft and any of it's variants.

The ONLY common denominator with pin failure in them, is that someone else has had them disassembled after they were build new.

Unfortunately there is no way to check the quality of roll pins. I haven't looked but maybe ARP list some? I would feel comfortable with that.

As I said, I am running a "Ford MotorSPORT" 341A "racing" distributor. It is a double pinned gear.

Agreeing with others here too, get rid of the "coil in a can" coil. Go to the newer coils.

Agreed on the location of the distributor. This is one time that a GM/Chevy would be helpful.

The "MSD Ghost of Christmas Future" is visiting you now. Ask him as you look at your name on the gravestone, "is this something that WILL be or is this just something that MIGHT be?" The MSD Tech Support will never answer that question. Screw them.

You can call Jon Haas ANYTIME and bug the crap out of him. His Pantera-Electronics ignition even works with the silly coc-a-mami Mallory distributor that HE runs? Huh! Go figure?

(psst: tell 'im I sent ya! )

I believe Doug is right. The MSD needs to see the signal from the distributor. Double pin the gear and Im sure it will fire when it sees the signal.
Will

ANY 351C distributor may get a sheared pin including electronic ones; the determinate is not the distributor but the oil pump which takes 2-3 horsepower to turn at high speeds. High pressure & hi-volume pumps take even more. The distributor itself takes practically nothing to turn it. Clean oil and warm weather is kinder than dirty oil or 50-wt at low temps. The stock Ford distrib. pin is 2 sizes smaller than that used by GM, and GM's gear pump is far more tolerant of debris in the oil. Gear pumps are so tolerant of 'stuff' they're also called 'trash pumps' in the pump biz....

Ford-type gearotor pumps absolutely require clean oil at all times due to the very tight tolerances. So if you like to stretch oil change durations, you're gonna have trouble. First the pin, then the pump driveshaft extension will break. Fix them both.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
ANY 351C distributor may get a sheared pin including electronic ones; the determinate is not the distributor but the oil pump which takes 2-3 horsepower to turn at high speeds. High pressure & hi-volume pumps take even more. The distributor itself takes practically nothing to turn it. Clean oil and warm weather is kinder than dirty oil or 50-wt at low temps. The stock Ford distrib. pin is 2 sizes smaller than that used by GM, and GM's gear pump is far more tolerant of debris in the oil. Gear pumps are so tolerant of 'stuff' they're also called 'trash pumps' in the pump biz....

Ford-type gearotor pumps absolutely require clean oil at all times due to the very tight tolerances. So if you like to stretch oil change durations, you're gonna have trouble. First the pin, then the pump driveshaft extension will break. Fix them both.

Based on the Gms distributor pin being 2 sizes LARGER, why not just drill the Ford distributor drive shaft & gear to accept the GM pin?!...Mark

I tried all day to get the distributor out of the engine.

It comes up 1/8", the body and shaft both are free, nothing grabbing the body making it hard to turn. I can turn the rotor shaft and feel the advance springs work, and let the shaft spring back, but the whole thing only comes up 1/8" and that's it.

As hard as it's been to do everything so far, tomorrow, I'm pulling he seats and front cover so I can get at everything, because there's no way it's going back together the way it all came apart (me in 2000 yoga positions trying to screw little things in) I'm just pulling the seats and cover and I'm going to crank the engine over with a wrench maybe 1/4 turn and see if that doesn't free up whatever is hanging up. The dizzy should just pull right up and off right?

I'm going to look at the ford manual tonight so I can visualize what's going on inside there.

Yes, it should pull right out. hopefully there is a lock washer on the shaft under the block to shaft to stop the shaft from moving up out of the oil pump and falling into the oil pan. Had a 289 in a mustang do that to me. Had to drop the pan to get to the shaft in 100 deg. not fun. Just curious, why are you having to pull the dist? was it not spinning when cranked? What lead you to that conclusion? Just asking. Hope to help.

We spent 2 days troubleshooting everything else on the car, MSD box, coil, wiring, as I cranked the car over waiting for it to fire, I never saw ANY movement from my mechanical oil gauge (physical tube going to the gauge) and I know usually after cranking for a bit you'll see a few pounds develop on the gauge.

SO, ZERO oil pressure after all this cranking, and no spark, even after testing coil, and jumping the MSD box to eliminate it's possiblt being bad. We SHOULD have spark, but no spark, and no oil pressure after all the cranking, I finally lifted the distributor cap high enough to see if the rotor was spinning. When the engine was cranked over, the rotor moved about 1/8 turn, and the returned to it's original position when the cranking stopped.

My neighbor Chuck, who also owns a Pantera, he called it! He said lift the cap and make sure the thingy goes roundy-round.

He said the Boss 351 engine were known ro shear the distributor gear shaft pin.

This explains everything, no spark, no oil pressure (oil pump I believe is driven by the distribitor shaft) so when the pin sheers, it all stops.

been there done that, fixed the dizzy pin, drained the 20-50 & never had a problem again

in my case it was a chilly day in the Chicago burbs, slightly fouled plugs that did fire the engine but it coughed & that was enough to shear the dizzy pin

too much load on the oil pump, think about 15-40 maybe

I said check distributor in my first post.
As you try to take out the distributor the shaft has to rotate because of how it meshes with the camshaft gear.
Check that the replacement ignition module you installed in the distributor is not too close and stopping the shaft from rotating.
You could have a jammed or seized oil pump which could cause the distributor to jam in place, it depends on how loose the distributor gear is on the distributor shaft.
Try turning the engine over with a socket on the front crank pulley bolt and pulling up on the distributor.
Do you have an engine build sheet from when you bought the car?
Interested if you know the cam, oil pump or oil pump driveshaft.
What viscosity oil did you use in your car?

If the distributor retaining bolt is out, there is nothing to keep the distributor from coming out normally.

Even if the oil pump drive shaft is Loctited to the end of the distributor, it will pull the entire shaft out with it.

If you can rotate the entire distributo (like you were adjusting the advance) then it isn't seized into the block and there are no other retaining clips in the assembly.

Nope, it has to come right out.

...and just to verify, you did take the cap off of the distributor and turn the engine over, and the rotor did not turn at that point?


There would be only one other place of interference internally on this and that would be the distributor drive gear and the drive teeth on the camshaft. If the drive pin in the distributor is somehow gone it would be possible for the drive gear to slip down to a point below the teeth on the camshaft and no longer be in mesh with it. That could be the point of interference.

In that case you are going to have to rig up a gear puller and use it to jack out the distributor. That will make the distributor gear slide down the shaft and eventually off of the shaft removing the interference.

In a internal catastrophic failure, and I am not necessarily saying that it is, you need to invent solutions to get these things apart. You aren't going to be able to access the entire damage until the distributor is out. Then maybe you can rig up a socket on an extension to test the oil pump and turn observe the engine to look at the camshaft drive teeth.

How much oil pressure did you have indicated on the gauge normally when you started the engine cold and how much when it was warmed up?

Hopefully there is a spring clip on the oil pump driveshaft which stops the shaft from being pulled out with the distributor.
You can hold the bottom of a distributor shaft locked and rotate the rotor arm a few degrees anti-clockwise against the advance/retard springs, but it will not rotate the distributor shaft.
Weird Mike says that he cranks the engine, the rotor moved 1/8 a turn and then springs back afterwards. Dizzy rotates anti-clockwise, maybe something jammed inside the dizzy??

You just won't know until the distributor is out. Something for sure is trashed. Best to find out what and why now so it can be corrected?

Cold idle oil pressure was in the 80 pounds range. Hot idle oil pressure around 30.

Going down the road at 2500 rpm pressure's around 70-80.

I got the distributor out by cranking the engine by hand, and as I turned it in the correct direction, it jacked the dizzy up due to the angle cut gears.

It all looked fine, at first I was afraid maybe this wasn't the issue (sheared pin) but after a couple whacks with the hammer (the gear captured in a vise by wood) the shaft punched right out.

I got a new pin installed, and also a piece of spring steel punched through the roll-pin to make things even stronger.

I'm going to try and find a long allen wrench that I can drive the pump by hand just to make sure it's not frozen for some reason.

I'm going to pull all the plugs so when we crank the engine over after the dizzy is installed I get oil through the motor since we've been cranking and cranking with no oil pressure so far, I want to either turn the pump by hand or crank it over with the plugs pulled so there's no compression loads until there's oil through the motor again.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
If the distributor retaining bolt is out, there is nothing to keep the distributor from coming out normally.

Even if the oil pump drive shaft is Loctited to the end of the distributor, it will pull the entire shaft out with it.

If you can rotate the entire distributo (like you were adjusting the advance) then it isn't seized into the block and there are no other retaining clips in the assembly.

Nope, it has to come right out.

...and just to verify, you did take the cap off of the distributor and turn the engine over, and the rotor did not turn at that point?


There would be only one other place of interference internally on this and that would be the distributor drive gear and the drive teeth on the camshaft. If the drive pin in the distributor is somehow gone it would be possible for the drive gear to slip down to a point below the teeth on the camshaft and no longer be in mesh with it. That could be the point of interference.

In that case you are going to have to rig up a gear puller and use it to jack out the distributor. That will make the distributor gear slide down the shaft and eventually off of the shaft removing the interference.

In a internal catastrophic failure, and I am not necessarily saying that it is, you need to invent solutions to get these things apart. You aren't going to be able to access the entire damage until the distributor is out. Then maybe you can rig up a socket on an extension to test the oil pump and turn observe the engine to look at the camshaft drive teeth.

How much oil pressure did you have indicated on the gauge normally when you started the engine cold and how much when it was warmed up?

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
I'm going to try and find a long allen wrench that I can drive the pump by hand just to make sure it's not frozen for some reason.

You could have put the distributor in the engine and turned the oil pump before putting the gear on.

Mike, it will take a long hex shaft and a 3/8" or 1/2" drill to develop enough oil pressure to see on a gauge. The shaft also has to turn in the correct direction- like the rotor. You can make a shaft out of drill rod, or various places sell such things thru Summit. Turning the pump by hand will only make you tired. The position you'll be in is kneeling on the ZF with your chest on the carb, working with the drill. Johnny Woods in England makes a really nice kneeling platform for this.

Looking down in the hole, you should see the hex drive end of the pump driveshaft down about 6"- right? That means the shaft retaining clip did its job and the shaft didn't lift up, then fall in the pan. If that happens, the pan has to come off to retrieve it & reinstall BEFORE the pump goes on. I think that car has the rear crossmember mod to allow the pan to come off without pulling the engine. Also think you have a bronze distributor gear for the steel solid roller cam; common with real-racers. Those gears wear rapidly- look really close at the bronze teeth for wear. Summit has spare gears.

I turn the oil pump with a 1/4", 5/16" socket and extensions with an electric drill. I believe that you run it counterclockwise. It quickly becomes obvious as pressure builds quickly. My experience it that most drills handle it fine - even a speed ratchet turned by hand. I used to tape the sockets and extensions together for extra insurance. However, i don't bother anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by JTpantera:
I turn the oil pump with a 1/4", 5/16" socket and extensions with an electric drill. I believe that you run it counterclockwise. It quickly becomes obvious as pressure builds quickly. My experience it that most drills handle it fine - even a speed ratchet turned by hand. I used to tape the sockets and extensions together for extra insurance. However, i don't bother anymore.

I agree. This will work fine.

Hello Mike; Invest in a oil pump priming shaft.

Here's the link...

http://www.summitracing.com/pa...Tv_bSlOgsxoC-EXw_wcB

GREAT $14.00 Investment!!!...Mark

I also use a 1/4" drive 5/16" socket...

on a 3/8" to 1/4" adapter

on a speedhandle or even a 3/8" ratchet

it does generate oil pressure and you can feel what's going on

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
Hello Mike; Invest in a oil pump priming shaft.

Here's the link...

http://www.summitracing.com/pa...Tv_bSlOgsxoC-EXw_wcB

GREAT $14.00 Investment!!!...Mark

Mark, you need to take the existing oil pump drive shaft out to use that primer shaft.

You may not even be able to do that if the retaining clip is still in place?

The simplest thing to do is just put a 1/4" drive socket on the the hex drive of the existing oil pump drive shaft.

If you use a long ratchet extension it will fit right into the chuck of a 3/8" drill and hold it tight enough to prime the pump without slipping.

You need a reversing drill since it works counter clockwise.

You do have an analog watch or clock and know what that means right?