And like the "enzo-envy" above, many of these grotesque body modifications stem from an identity crisis.
Take for example this Lamboterra...
Take for example this Lamboterra...
Never use a clear plastic firewall cover. Sure your fresh engine is purdy, but it'll soon be greasy, grimy and dusty. AND, that plastic cover won't do much to keep you safe if that new monster engine throws a pulley or water pump shaft, or whatever. Not a good idea...
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I'm out of words !! Especially the R8 recreation is impressive !!
To each their own I guess, but these body mods along with non Ford motors are just wrong. And best left to kit cars.
If anyone wonders why Pantera values have never been close to what they should be, you only have to look at Garth's pictures.Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values. The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.
That said I did not buy my Panteras as investments. And I enjoy the modifications I made that have improved performance and reliability.
If anyone wonders why Pantera values have never been close to what they should be, you only have to look at Garth's pictures.Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values. The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.
That said I did not buy my Panteras as investments. And I enjoy the modifications I made that have improved performance and reliability.
quote:Originally posted by garth66:
Same vent philosophy here, bigger is better...
And DON'T cut a hole in your roof for a sunroof. Nothing says 70's like a nice smoked plexiglass sunroof transplanted from a Van Conversion into your Pantera...
One and the same?
http://www.hemmings.com/classi...pantera/1683366.html
.
quote:Originally posted by Pantera 4134:Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values.
I'd think this would actually have the opposite effect: The modified car's value will be determined individually, while the fewer remaining stock cars will generally appreciate due to increasing rarity.
Seems to me that T-bucket hot-rod roadsters haven't devalued stock Model T's, the Alfa SSZ Stradale didn't stop Alfa Sprint Speciales from becoming expensive, etc. ??
Conversely, lack of modification doesn't ensure value. What's a bone-stock DeLorean worth these days?
quote:I'd think this would actually have the opposite effect: The modified car's value will be determined individually, while the fewer remaining stock cars will generally appreciate due to increasing rarity.
Seems to me that T-bucket hot-rod roadsters haven't devalued stock Model T's, the Alfa SSZ Stradale didn't stop Alfa Sprint Speciales from becoming expensive, etc. ??
Conversely, lack of modification doesn't ensure value. What's a bone-stock DeLorean worth these days?
I couldn't agree more... very well said!
quote:Originally posted by 1Rocketship:Nothing could be further from the truth as your statement.quote:Originally posted by Pantera 4134:
To each their own I guess, but these body mods along with non Ford motors are just wrong. And best left to kit cars.
If anyone wonders why Pantera values have never been close to what they should be, you only have to look at Garth's pictures.Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values. The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.
That said I did not buy my Panteras as investments. And I enjoy the modifications I made that have improved performance and reliability.
Every altered Pantera only INCREASES the value of stock Panteras, as a "True" enthusiast/collector is NOT swayed by, nor is their appreciation diminished by the modifications of other Panteras.
There has NEVER been a car produced that has NOT suffered at the hands of various Modders, it hasn't negatively affected their collective values, NOR will it affect Pantera values, as EVIDENCED by the current sale of this Pantera at auction for $112,000.00!!!!.
https://www.facebook.com/AZPOC...9841/?type=1&theater...
and OBVIOUSLY the market for modded Panteras is also quite LUCRATIVE!!! as evidenced by the Ring Brothers $300,000.00 DeTomaso Pantera.
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/r...drnln-152252707.html
So patiently obvious that "Stock" Panteras are very HIGHLY valued, as are certain "Modded" Panteras, which certainly fills your assertions...FULL of HOLES!!!...Mark
quote:Originally posted by 1Rocketship:quote:Originally posted by 1Rocketship:Nothing could be further from the truth as your statement.quote:Originally posted by Pantera 4134:
To each their own I guess, but these body mods along with non Ford motors are just wrong. And best left to kit cars.
If anyone wonders why Pantera values have never been close to what they should be, you only have to look at Garth's pictures.Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values. The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.
That said I did not buy my Panteras as investments. And I enjoy the modifications I made that have improved performance and reliability.
Every altered Pantera only INCREASES the value of stock Panteras, as a "True" enthusiast/collector is NOT swayed by, nor is their appreciation diminished by the modifications of other Panteras.
There has NEVER been a car produced that has NOT suffered at the hands of various Modders, it hasn't negatively affected their collective values, NOR will it affect Pantera values, as EVIDENCED by the current sale of this Pantera at auction for $112,000.00!!!!.
https://www.facebook.com/AZPOC...9841/?type=1&theater...
and OBVIOUSLY the market for modded Panteras is also quite LUCRATIVE!!! as evidenced by the Ring Brothers $300,000.00 DeTomaso Pantera.
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/r...drnln-152252707.html
So patiently obvious that "Stock" Panteras are very HIGHLY valued, as are certain "Modded" Panteras, which certainly fills your assertions...FULL of HOLES!!!
Well Mark,
You "OBVIOUSLY" did not carefully read my post. I clearly stated that
"The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.". Which "OBVIOUSLY" are now bringing top dollars.
You also selectively choose the Ring Bros Pantera as an example of a highly modded Pantera bringing what appears(if not a Gas Monkey shill stunt) crazy money. Do you honestly think that the cars that Garth posted would bring anything close to the dollars of a more standard Pantera ?
And how much are the bastardized "E" types with GM engines bringing compared to original motors ? How many "F" cars or Lambos have hideous body changes. If they did their market value would be far less with almost no demand.
And yes Mars for every sickly modified Pantera it helps escalate the value of stock/near stock Panteras. But Panteras as a whole should be worth far greater amounts.
My point is that Panteras that were produced in small numbers, with arguably(biased) unmatched styling and performance are still highly under valued. With investors (Not enthusiasts) driving values of most any collectible car to pre recession dollars and beyond Panteras should all be six figure cars.
But "OBVIOUSLY" this is just my opinion.
"OBVIOUSLEY" you misspelled "Obviously".quote:Originally posted by Pantera 4134:quote:Originally posted by 1Rocketship:quote:Originally posted by 1Rocketship:Nothing could be further from the truth as your statement.quote:Originally posted by Pantera 4134:
To each their own I guess, but these body mods along with non Ford motors are just wrong. And best left to kit cars.
If anyone wonders why Pantera values have never been close to what they should be, you only have to look at Garth's pictures.Sadly our cars are often not taken seriously by collectors and enthusiasts because of these examples. This will continue to diminish overall Pantera values. The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.
That said I did not buy my Panteras as investments. And I enjoy the modifications I made that have improved performance and reliability.
Every altered Pantera only INCREASES the value of stock Panteras, as a "True" enthusiast/collector is NOT swayed by, nor is their appreciation diminished by the modifications of other Panteras.
There has NEVER been a car produced that has NOT suffered at the hands of various Modders, it hasn't negatively affected their collective values, NOR will it affect Pantera values, as EVIDENCED by the current sale of this Pantera at auction for $112,000.00!!!!.
https://www.facebook.com/AZPOC...9841/?type=1&theater...
and OBVIOUSLY the market for modded Panteras is also quite LUCRATIVE!!! as evidenced by the Ring Brothers $300,000.00 DeTomaso Pantera.
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/r...drnln-152252707.html
So patiently obvious that "Stock" Panteras are very HIGHLY valued, as are certain "Modded" Panteras, which certainly fills your assertions...FULL of HOLES!!!
Well Mark,
You "OBVIOUSLEY" did not carefully read my post. I clearly stated that
"The exceptions being stock or easily returned to stock.". Which "OBVIOUSLEY" are now bringing top dollars.
You also selectively choose the Ring Bros Pantera as an example of a highly modded Pantera bringing what appears(if not a Gas Monkey shill stunt) crazy money. Do you honestly think that the cars that Garth posted would bring anything close to the dollars of a more standard Pantera ?
And how much are the bastardized "E" types with GM engines bringing compared to original motors ? How many "F" cars or Lambos have hideous body changes. If they did their market value would be far less with almost no demand.
And yes Mars for every sickly modified Pantera it helps escalate the value of stock/near stock Panteras. But Panteras as a whole should be worth far greater amounts.
My point is that Panteras that were produced in small numbers, with arguably(biased) unmatched styling and performance are still highly under valued. With investors (Not enthusiasts) driving values of most any collectible car to pre recession dollars and beyond Panteras should all be six figure cars.
But "OBVIOUSLEY" this is just my opinion.
One only has to look at the high auction prices that Pro Touring modded vehicles bring to realize in many cases a modded car brings more than a original, the Jaguar E type cars with GM replacement engines is an anomaly as the example you sited.
As far as your statement that "Panteras should all be six figure cars" is counter-intuitive to what the free market valuation of the Pantera factually is...Mark
I am not so concerned as to what changes make a valuable Pantera...however it is nice or at least convenient when what you like is valuable.
I for one loath deeply 17" wheels on Pantera's and pretty much any 1970's car. I think it makes them look like a toy car from the dollar store.
I am however in the minority. It is certain sometimes that gimmick flashy changes sometimes are preferred by the masses.
I for one loath deeply 17" wheels on Pantera's and pretty much any 1970's car. I think it makes them look like a toy car from the dollar store.
I am however in the minority. It is certain sometimes that gimmick flashy changes sometimes are preferred by the masses.
On the US or North American Panteras I think it is actually completely stock cars that will be at the bottom of desireability.
Custom cars like the "Ring Bros" Pantera selling that high help.
"A rising tide floats all boats".
I think that the general consensus of the public's view of Panteras is pretty well stated by Leno in speaking about why he bought his?
That car isn't stock.
Custom cars like the "Ring Bros" Pantera selling that high help.
"A rising tide floats all boats".
I think that the general consensus of the public's view of Panteras is pretty well stated by Leno in speaking about why he bought his?
That car isn't stock.
Since we're parsing things here:
How obvious?
May I suggest?: "patently obvious"
(Sorry, but Mom was a speech therapist...
)
And what's this?
Who defines what a "True enthusiast/collector" even is? Isn't it just someone who is enthusiastic about something, or someone who collects something? (BTW, what's a "False" enthusiast/collector?)
I know plenty of enthusiastic collectors who enjoy wildly modified cars, and whose ideas and opinions certainly seem to be swayed by other vehicles they've seen. They like copying good ideas from others.
Sorry if I'm being snarky. My belief is that we (owners) all share a true enthusiasm for collecting Panteras, and we choose our car/s based on our taste and budget. There's no profit in disparaging others who have differing taste/budget.
I'd suggest that vehicle values (including Panteras) are determined to a larger degree by outside economic influences. That's why price guides are updated on a monthly, quarterly, or annual basis - not because some dude tubbed his rear-end.
quote:"OBVIOUSLEY" you misspelled "Obviously"
How obvious?
quote:So patiently obvious
May I suggest?: "patently obvious"
(Sorry, but Mom was a speech therapist...
) And what's this?
quote:a "True" enthusiast/collector is NOT swayed by, nor is their appreciation diminished by the modifications of other Panteras.
Who defines what a "True enthusiast/collector" even is? Isn't it just someone who is enthusiastic about something, or someone who collects something? (BTW, what's a "False" enthusiast/collector?)
I know plenty of enthusiastic collectors who enjoy wildly modified cars, and whose ideas and opinions certainly seem to be swayed by other vehicles they've seen. They like copying good ideas from others.
Sorry if I'm being snarky. My belief is that we (owners) all share a true enthusiasm for collecting Panteras, and we choose our car/s based on our taste and budget. There's no profit in disparaging others who have differing taste/budget.
I'd suggest that vehicle values (including Panteras) are determined to a larger degree by outside economic influences. That's why price guides are updated on a monthly, quarterly, or annual basis - not because some dude tubbed his rear-end.
Ahhhhhh, the quagmire one encounters whilst traversing the trap laden path of semantics.quote:Originally posted by MarsRed:
Since we're parsing things here:quote:"OBVIOUSLEY" you misspelled "Obviously"
How obvious?
quote:So patiently obvious
May I suggest?: "patently obvious"
(Sorry, but Mom was a speech therapist...
And what's this?
quote:a "True" enthusiast/collector is NOT swayed by, nor is their appreciation diminished by the modifications of other Panteras.
Who defines what a "True enthusiast/collector" even is? Isn't it just someone who is enthusiastic about something, or someone who collects something? (BTW, what's a "False" enthusiast/collector?)
I know plenty of enthusiastic collectors who enjoy wildly modified cars, and whose ideas and opinions certainly seem to be swayed by other vehicles they've seen. They like copying good ideas from others.
Sorry if I'm being snarky. My belief is that we (owners) all share a true enthusiasm for collecting Panteras, and we choose our car/s based on our taste and budget. There's no profit in disparaging others who have differing taste/budget.
I'd suggest that vehicle values (including Panteras) are determined to a larger degree by outside economic influences. That's why price guides are updated on a monthly, quarterly, or annual basis - not because some dude tubbed his rear-end.
I would define a "false enthusiast" as someone who faints enthusiasm to ingratiate themselves to a person/s of prominence in order to advance their position.
As an example, you pretend to be a golf enthusiast because your boss at work is & you wish to gain favour.
I didn't perceive your post as "snarky" as you corrected my grammar mistake/s, for that I am appreciative of.
I NEVER run from the truth!, in actuality I encourage & applaud it, that's how a person/me learns, with the caveat being...Is their mind open to learn?!...Mark
feints enthusiasm
Wow Controversy LOL I'm going to break out the popcorn.
Seriously, lets face it. Mods that look good and function well may not hurt value as much as some of the hideous body mods shown above. IMO if a body mod is made it should not date the car as to when it was modified. Make sense? That I how we end up with cartoonish vans with painted murals on Cragars.
Engine mods IMO don't hurt value as much as poorly designed interior and body mods.
Lets face it some people have a "design sense" a sense for proportion and scale and some don't. Those that don't should not re-design a work of art. Ask your self can I design a better looking car than Tom Tjaarda? Pinnifarina? Bertone? Zagato? Giugaro? If you can run with the big boys go for it.
Seriously, lets face it. Mods that look good and function well may not hurt value as much as some of the hideous body mods shown above. IMO if a body mod is made it should not date the car as to when it was modified. Make sense? That I how we end up with cartoonish vans with painted murals on Cragars.
Engine mods IMO don't hurt value as much as poorly designed interior and body mods.
Lets face it some people have a "design sense" a sense for proportion and scale and some don't. Those that don't should not re-design a work of art. Ask your self can I design a better looking car than Tom Tjaarda? Pinnifarina? Bertone? Zagato? Giugaro? If you can run with the big boys go for it.