GR4 and 5s

I don't think I've ever seen this many nice cars on the market at one time. A little voice tells me it's the economy stupid... regardless, it's good to be a buyer right now.

Wonder what this does to prices?

Euro strong --- dollar weak = GREAT BUYS IN USA. Especially with our unknown economy right now; alot of people are in a bad place financially; and the toys are the first to go. America is not like Europe. Very common for most people to have a couple of cars for everyday use and another "collector" car for fun. Well, in unsettling economic times, the fun stuff goes -- and that is what we are seeing here right now. No one knows how long this one will last; but it will be into the next term of president at the shortest (again IMHO).

Mark

I don't think it's isolated to the USA. On this side of the pond, there's also an unusually high number of Panteras on the market.

Geez, if nobody wants the Group4's at those prices I may need to sell my Hansens Monster drink stock and gets me another Group 4 to tool around in. I like the GT5S too, but no good for CA...its crap like these CA laws that have people and businesses disliking CA, and the state in the hole. About the only good thing left is thongs on the beach, but there are rules about that too.

You guys are right about the weak dollar and the strong Euro. But keep in mind that the Europeans have to pay 19% duties if they import (even if they import from my home, Switzerland, which is NOT an EU member) and then they have to pay an annual fee based on engine displacement, which for a 351 Cleveland is almost 4000 USD per year! That wipes out any hope that appreciation over time will make these cars good investments. Of course if you love these cars like I do, you don't care! BTW don't I remember that Does200 has a 460? That could be $6k/year. Better find some cleveland valve covers to dress that monster down for the German inspectors...

I agree on that Group 4. Love it. Always loved that body. Keep in mind that the other bit of bad news for Europeans is that the upgraded billet control arms and larger brakes can make it impossible to register here. Drive train and suspension components have to be historically correct in most countries. My 17" wheels? Well, my mechanic keeps a set of 15's around for Pantera owners to put on for inspection day.

Another nice car goes overseas. The back group 4 went quick, and I figured since it was a real nice build. With all the spec requirements overseas it almost seems odd that such a highly modified car could be imported there. When I sold my mostly stock orange L to go to Germany, it couldn't enter with the aftermarket tail lights and 17" wheels.

Mark,

No upgrading or modifying your vehicle? Paying taxes on displacement? Disgraceful.

Thanks for setting me straight. I have long been under the impression that life outside of America was less restrictive, less bureaucratic and more filled with art, culture and freedoms rather than the stupid 'rules' that are becoming more and more a part of our life.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
I have long been under the impression that life outside of America was less restrictive, less bureaucratic and more filled with art, culture and freedoms rather than the stupid 'rules' that are becoming more and more a part of our life.

True. It's called Canada!

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Mark,

No upgrading or modifying your vehicle? Paying taxes on displacement? Disgraceful.

Thanks for setting me straight. I have long been under the impression that life outside of America was less restrictive, less bureaucratic and more filled with art, culture and freedoms rather than the stupid 'rules' that are becoming more and more a part of our life.

Nope, Europe pretty much wins in the silly bureaucratic bs department. One reason taxes tend to be so high over here is because of the huge government overheads - we have civil servants to supervise the civil servants... and bunches of them make sure that your car has not been modified from the original design that was approved for road use.

The concept I understand. You prove a certain design, with a certain suspension geometry, brakes, etc. Some yo-yo comes along and second guesses the engineers and installs something completely unacceptable from a design standpoint, his wheels fall off and someone gets killed. But here they don't allow you to install 16¨rims instead of 15", even though the overall dimension is unchanged.

Like many government actions, the original theory had some sense but it lost something in the application but not understanding what they wanted to do.

So does that mean if we all come to Italy with our cars we can be pulled over while cruising and inspected? Or is this just a fact of licensing in each country?

talking about bureaucratic trash, I just received a speeding ticket in the mail, here in France from a photo radar going 111 km/h in a 110 km/h zone with a fine of 68 Euro. That's a fine equivalent of 32 US$ per mile.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
So does that mean if we all come to Italy with our cars we can be pulled over while cruising and inspected? Or is this just a fact of licensing in each country?

You could be pulled over to see if you have your paperwork in order (insurance and registration) but if your car is legal in your own country, then it is legal in Europe.

I drove my old Pantera in France for 4 years with US plates. I got stopped occasionally, but as long as I paid my speeding ticket I had no problem! That's one of the reasons I kept my US registration despite the occasional hassle - my engine was modified and I was afraid it might not be considered acceptable.

Summary - as long as your local authorities give you a license plate, the Europeans don't care what you've done to the car.

Thanks Charlie. I like it.

Poor Mic. Sounds just like home - without the annoying 23 yr old, bad tempered, female police officers.

quote:

Originally posted by Mic:
talking about bureaucratic trash, I just received a speeding ticket in the mail, here in France from a photo radar going 111 km/h in a 110 km/h zone with a fine of 68 Euro. That's a fine equivalent of 32 US$ per mile.

No shit. How is it even possible to be accurate to 1 kph? That is very bogus. I'll boycott France from now on, just for that.

Well, except maybe their wine, cheese, women, cars.... oh forget it.

the whole story, the ticket says i was going 117 km/h and they take off 5% to account for error witch comes to 111 km/h.

quote:

Originally posted by Mic:
the whole story, the ticket says i was going 117 km/h and they take off 5% to account for error witch comes to 111 km/h.

So I guess the fact it may not have been you actually driving the car is irrelevant. The owner is responsible for whoever is driving and their behavior???? How do they know it was you driving?

quote:

Thanks for setting me straight. I have long been under the impression that life outside of America was less restrictive, less bureaucratic and more filled with art, culture and freedoms rather than the stupid 'rules' that are becoming more and more a part of our life

Thats why everybody came to the "New World", you know taxation without representation, oppressive laws, that sort of thing.

quote:

So I guess the fact it may not have been you actually driving the car is irrelevant. The owner is responsible for whoever is driving and their behavior???? How do they know it was you driving?

Isnt that why most US law enforcment folks have a camera tied into the radar trap??
Jeff

Husker,

If the car is a rental, they'll forward you the ticket (it has a time stamp and a pic of the driver and front licence plate). If it is a friend or a relative's car, they charge the owner, it is then up to the owner to forward you the ticket.

Mic, I can see where this could create huge problems trying to collect money from friends and relatives. What a mess. Are the pictures really clear enough to identify the driver?

Husker, as far as I was told, the pictures are clear enough, I haven't seen mine yet, but at that time i was driving. When I get it i'll post it, so we can see what a speeding maniac I am,