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Gremlins!

panteradougpanteradougMember
So you think that there aren't Gremlins at large huh?
I go to start the car and the battery could use some help. I hook up the charger turn it on fires up. All is well you think? Not so fast.
The car is running, starting to idle up so I get out to go disconnect the charger. OK, done.
Now I'm climbing back in and of course the car stalls, it doesn't like to wake up early.
OK, shut it off (I hate these european starter switches), then turn it back on. Nothing. So I say to myself, nothing? OK, lets quick fix before I climb out again. No lights, no radio, no courtesy lights, like I said nothing.
Can't fool with this now. I leave it and come back today. I figured I cooked something big time, Let's look at it in desending order.
I read the battery voltage off of the battery terminals, 12.1v. No great, but not bad. OK, lets look further, got voltage at the fuse box, full battery voltage. Hum problem not here. Still no courtesy lights, running lights, horn, etc.
WTF. Stick in the key, nada, nada F'n thing.
Ok, lets hit the battery with a little juice, hook up the charger, open the drivers door, courtesy lights are back, hum you say?
Stick in the key, car fires and starts.
OK, who's messin with me?
get out to kill the charger, ok, voltage is good at the battery, get in, no charge showing on the ampmeter, ok, fully charged.
Car is idling 1,100-1,200, check the tach, 3,500rpm. WTF? Exactly!
Start randomly checking accessories, electric fuel pump is huming, check the fuel pressure 2psi. What? Should be 8 at that point.
Screw this, shut off car.
Now who ever sent thier little Gremlins here just to mess around, this isn't funny. Please call them back.
DT, were you and the aliens hanging with Elvis and think this is funny?
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rapierrapierMember
Maybe may have a gremlin between battery terminal and cable.
High resistance at this point will let out the volts but not the amps so you will get a voltage reading but nothing will work.
Does the voltage drop right down when you turn on something on?

Check the battery cables for good connections and corrosion at both ends.

Best of luck.
panteradougpanteradougMember
The electrical system came right back up. I suspect that it is internal in the ignition switch itself. This business of the tach reading 2.5 times higher then the actual rpm has got me stumped though.
Also the fuel pressure gauge is mechanical. It has nothing to do with the electrical system. Maybe this was in my horoscope for today? Nah, I better not look.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
A very common gotcha here:

When you measure battery voltage at the battery, connect the test lead of the volt meter to the clamp on the end of the cable, not to the battery post in the center of the clamp. The connection between post & clamp can oxidize, everything will look good when meaasured at the post, but there is a voltage drop between post & cable.

below is a pic of one of those dreaded Gremlins....

your friend on the DTBB

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H Hawaii (Guest)
Same thing happened to me the other day and it was just corrosion on the negative battery lead that I couldn't see. Take them off and wire brush them, replaced and vvvrrrrooommmm all is good in the Pantera world once again. Big Grin
Pissed me off that it happened...I could of been ready to show off and end up looking like a dork that can't even start the darn car. Big Grin
dougodougoMember
Doug,
I had starting problems with my car. George came over, he decided to hot wire the car. A wire from the battery to the coil. My car started right up, all the lights, windows, everything worked perfectly. Before you would start the car and I would try to put the window down or turn on the lights and it would kill the engine. NOW, we figured the problem was the ignition swithch. No doubt it's all gummed up, worn out etc...With George's direction, I installed a relay system for the ignition system. So the power runs thru the relays rather than nasty ign. switch. No problems what so ever now. This is what happened with my car, yours could be a different story, however I thought I would throw it out for your consideration.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by george pence:
A very common gotcha here:

When you measure battery voltage at the battery, connect the test lead of the volt meter to the clamp on the end of the cable, not to the battery post in the center of the clamp. The connection between post & clamp can oxidize, everything will look good when meaasured at the post, but there is a voltage drop between post & cable.

below is a pic of one of those dreaded Gremlins....

your friend on the DTBB



I thought Gremlins were only green?
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Dougo:
Doug,
I had starting problems with my car. George came over, he decided to hot wire the car. A wire from the battery to the coil. My car started right up, all the lights, windows, everything worked perfectly. Before you would start the car and I would try to put the window down or turn on the lights and it would kill the engine. NOW, we figured the problem was the ignition swithch. No doubt it's all gummed up, worn out etc...With George's direction, I installed a relay system for the ignition system. So the power runs thru the relays rather than nasty ign. switch. No problems what so ever now. This is what happened with my car, yours could be a different story, however I thought I would throw it out for your consideration.


Well so far I can tell you what it isn't. It isn't the terminals on the battery.
I pulled the ignition switch out and it's dangling at this moment.
The problem seems to be in the switch itself.
I will point out to everyone that this isn't the original switch. I replaced it, a few years ago, but replaced it, yes.
Do these switches have the propencaty to go blewy for no real season?
It doesn't have the feel of a worn out switch. The spring action is there and it clicks nice and firmly.
Dougo, you may be the closest to the truth on this one dude. Guys named Doug are pretty smart huh?
It came back to life this morning like nothing happened. I broke for lunch and went back and it's kaput again.
I'm sure that the fuel presure gauge is just a stupid coincidence but I'm concerned with the tach reading 3500 at 1100 and the oil pressure gauge was reading 20 instead of 80.(I didn't mention that before). It is electric so there is something weird with the electrical system going on here.
Nobody heard of any secret military tests going on today right? Some kind of electronic sabatoge weapon being tested randomly maybe?
Loral, an electronics defense contractor, involved in electronic warfare developement was located about 1,000 yards from me. Theyare gone maybe 10 years and have abandoned this place but maybe there is a security guard up there playing with leftover stuff?
George PGeorge PAdmin.
the contacts of the oem ignition switch can't handle the current of an electronic ignition, eventually the contacts will burn.

my advice, when swapping from points to electronic ignition, install a relay the way Dougo did.

Wire it so that the original wire that supplied the coil (from the ignition switch) pulls a relay instead & wire the new relay to switch power to the electronic ignition. Don't forget to install a fuse in the new circuit either.

your friend on the DTBB
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by george pence:
the contacts of the oem ignition switch can't handle the current of an electronic ignition, eventually the contacts will burn.

my advice, when swapping from points to electronic ignition, install a relay the way Dougo did.

Wire it so that the original wire that supplied the coil (from the ignition switch) pulls a relay instead & wire the new relay to switch power to the electronic ignition. Don't forget to install a fuse in the new circuit either.

your friend on the DTBB



Dougo or George, can you give me specifics on this please?
panteradougpanteradougMember
Thanks George. You keep interviewing new avitars at 1:30am. I'll try to find the relay. That's about equal.
My ignition switch might have bit the big one. It looks like it might have taken the Tach along with it.
This type of electrical stuff is all new to me. I don't diagnose them well. I never had anyone suggest these type of solutions.
Perhaps the ignition switch was a player in the demise of two MSD 6a ignitions, three Ford Motorports, two Accells, a Mallory Unilite and a Ford "brown wire? I'm still trying to figure out PC's. I think I need electronic help.
Are any of your avitar friends shrinks, electronic experts and freelance? 1:30am is an available time slot.
Oh, what size in line fuse should I use? How prone to blowing out will it be?
Thanks.
J jwr2968 (Guest)
quote:
This type of electrical stuff is all new to me. I don't diagnose them well. I never had anyone suggest these type of solutions.

Doug,I agree.This electrical stuff lies somewere between rocket science and brain surgery.One thing one place could cause gremlins elsewere.Look out for bad grounds.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
Doug,

the relay is just a standard 4 tab "DIN" (European) relay you can purchase off the rack at any auto parts store that has an electrical section. The Waytek part number I provided could be ordered on the 'net from the Waytek sight, but I don't see a need. Waytek sells Bosch parts.

I don't know what year your wife's Buick is, but GM in general uses some very cheap arse switches. You'll find replacement power window switches for GM cars hanging on the "rack" at some auto parts stores too, one rack over from the relays. You won't find them for any other make of car.....that should be a hint.

Run a 20 amp fuse for your ignition.

your friend on the DTBB
panteradougpanteradougMember
As far as the GM (it's hard to say Buick) is concerned, I replaced the master control switch, because I thought that was what was wrong.
It does the same thing as the one I just replaced, it buzzes when you try to open the windows.
Now since I have power at the switch, I must presume that the brand new Mr.Goodwrench, $54 with discount part is kaput also, or all four window motors died at the same time or something else is going on that I don't understand?
I believe that I may have a bunch of Bosch relays for driving lights in the "electronic" parts drawer.
The dampness here is a major factor in the lack of electronic dependabilaty. It certainly helped kill the MSD's. Talk about cheap crap. MSD must be the leader. They are from ElPaso, TX. I don't think they know what humidity means.
Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how it works out.
mblotusmblotusMember
quote:
Originally posted by george pence:
the contacts of the oem ignition switch can't handle the current of an electronic ignition, eventually the contacts will burn.

George, does your comment cover the GT5 ignition switch as well. I have an MSD ignition and coil, and have discovered one of the previous owners installed a GT5 ignition switch.


your friend on the DTBB
panteradougpanteradougMember
OK, found the problem. The main ignition wire at the starter solinod is broken unde the connector.
It's a five minute fix once the problem is found.
Why the tach was whacky I still don't know but it's ok now.
George, I am by no means an electronic expert. I am even less of one with an Italian wiringn harness.
I am running a Motorcraft "brown wire" ignition.
I do not know if it draws more current through the switch. There is some signs of spilled red wine, some dried linguini and some white clam sauce spilled on the floorboards between the steel and the carpet. Should I worry? Nope not me.
In light of the ignition I am running, would you still recommend installing the relay as suggested?
That should only take me a couple of months to get done.
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