Heater blower motor

Don't know what that bracket came from originally before the Pantera but the motor is US and is from a US built truck. I know because I just had to replace the motor assembly.

Bought it from a local auto parts retail supplier about 90 days ago. Motor was $40.

If you take the part number off of the motor and Google it, the cross reference will come up.

Chances are the bracket is from the same application? As a matter of fact, I think the entire assembly, including the steel heater box/a/c condenser enclosure ALL cross reference to the truck tractor.

Must have originally been a US(Ford) engineer who found and laid that all out for Detomaso and sourced it from the already existing truck?

My brain needs more oxygen. I can't remember the truck application. It probably is in my notes. Where did I put them now? Yikes!

Found these so far.

Here's the replacement motor. You may be able to cross reference from these numbers as well for the broken bracket?

You cannot change just change the motor in the Pantera in the car. You MUST remove the dash board and setting the gauge panel aside to get access to all of the motor mounting screws.

You can leave the a/c and the heater hoses connected.

It is the simplest way to do this.

Otherwise you have no access to the sheet metal screws on top of the blower mounting that you can reach in the car.

I have pictures of the entire assembly out of the car if you need them.

It looks like you are already past that point anyway so I did not post them. If you need them, let me know. I have them here.

Usually the other portion of the blower motor mount cracks. Like this.

I fixed mine like this. I suppose some variation on the theme would work for you.

For an upgrade to the stock unit I went with Hall Pantera's three speed three winding unit. It is complete with motor, wheels and mounting bracket. Just needed to drill new mounting holes to attach.

quote:

Originally posted by forestg:
For an upgrade to the stock unit I went with Hall Pantera's three speed three winding unit. It is complete with motor, wheels and mounting bracket. Just needed to drill new mounting holes to attach.

Interesting you should mention that. If you read the specs on the motor I posted, it is a three speed motor.

The switch is the determining factor.

Anyone know of a three speed switch that matches the originals?

I used a replacement motor and squirrel cages from Vintage Air in Florida. Perfect fit, no drilling

It also has three speed windings, a much more efficient method than DeTomaso's use of a big resistor offering only two speeds.

I hooked the high speed winding to the stock switch and added a discreet SPDT switch to select between the medium and low speed windings, and fed that to the other side of the stock switch.

Like this:

The Pantera-Electroics Console Switch Controller has a wiring provision, i.e., option, that when you add one wire to the freeze out switch, gives the motor a third speed.

FWIW, it IS possible to remove the blower motor without removing the dash. You need to KNOW where the three motor mounting screws are and their size (you can only see one screw), and be able to work completely by touch to remove them. The saving grace is, none are very tight and once cracked loose, they can be spun out (and back in) with fingertips only.

WARNING! It is also possible to install the motor and squirrel-cage impellers backward and everything fits. The blower will run either direction but if the impellers are on the shaft backward, the amount of airflow you'll get is almost nil; reversing motor wires does not fix this. This is how I found out you COULD remove a freshly-installed blower motor without pulling the dash again.....

Also be careful testing the motor out of the car. It has far more torque than you'd think possible and if it pops out of your hand while bench-testing, the impellers are extremely brittle when the assembly hits the floor. Yes- I did this, too!

Boss -

That sounds like an amusing anecdote.... Well, maybe 5-10 years after the fact....

It was probably a nightmare when it hit the ground....

Rocky

the plastic is ABS can be repaired w/ abs/ [sewer /drain pipe cement]

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
FWIW, it IS possible to remove the blower motor without removing the dash. You need to KNOW where the three motor mounting screws are and their size (you can only see one screw), and be able to work completely by touch to remove them. The saving grace is, none are very tight and once cracked loose, they can be spun out (and back in) with fingertips only.

WARNING! It is also possible to install the motor and squirrel-cage impellers backward and everything fits. The blower will run either direction but if the impellers are on the shaft backward, the amount of airflow you'll get is almost nil; reversing motor wires does not fix this. This is how I found out you COULD remove a freshly-installed blower motor without pulling the dash again.....

Also be careful testing the motor out of the car. It has far more torque than you'd think possible and if it pops out of your hand while bench-testing, the impellers are extremely brittle when the assembly hits the floor. Yes- I did this, too!

Tried this. No go. The motor and cages are mounted as an assembly to the back of the box and the flange is between the dash and the top of the blower assembly.

It actually is less time to take the entire dash out. Then you can see what's going on with the attaching screws.

The entire motor and squirrel cage assembly is still available.

If someone winds up paying more than about $100 for that assembly then you are paying for someone elses knowledge.

Wilkinson charges $1,100 for it. That's quite a premium and about a $900 commission to him.

Thanks for all input! :-)

I have repaired and replaced the engine mount lucky I'm small so I didn't have to remove the dash and roll cage... :-(
I must / should replace the fan blades, but I must take loose the whole fan unit for measuring the stock fan blades, so I know I'm buying the right one ...
I'll make a new stronghold bracket in aluminum in the winter I don't want to screw more now in the summer.

I have also searched more and found some useful info.

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The GENAIRE blower fans like the one in most Ford era Panteras are pretty generic and were used in other specialty vehicles like some busses and RVs, I think. I'm very happy with my new 3 speed US made motor. It fit right in without modifications to my original GENAIRE "made in OHIO" fans and housing. It blows at least twice as much air on Hi as the original. I suggest you get one. Not expensive either.
The new 3 speed motor is a BM4320. I learned this from this DeTomaso list years ago. I didn't invent it. Just Google BM4320.

http://poca.com/pipermail/deto...2-August/063823.html

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3 speed blower motors from Air-Tique before they closed.
Has more power than stock unit and doesn't deface the original appearance of the car!
The generic name for seems to be BM4320.
It is available from other suppliers at reasonable prices.

http://poca.com/pipermail/deto...009-July/029854.html

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http://www.polarbearinc.com/PB...ht.html#Anchor-61408
http://www.gamela.com.tw/M65078.html
http://airblower.replacefinder...-pm381-blower-motor/
http://clickbuys.net/product.php?asin=B000C7M72A


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solutions on three speed switch:

When I installed mine, I just hooked the low speed to the unused switch at the bottom of the console while using the original fan switch for the medium and high settings. Not totally stock but stock looking.

http://poca.com/pipermail/deto...2-August/063825.html

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I used the original three position switch in the stock bottom position to give OFF/AIR/AC positions. This also selects the condenser relay full time when the AC is on. In either AIR or AC position, the fan runs in LOW speed with the blower fan switch in OFF position.

The original blower FAN switch runs MED in LOW position and HI in HI position.

The blower fan is only off if both the AIR switch and the FAN switch are OFF.

I use a little electric Mercedes heater pump for hot coolant circulation through the heater core. I hid a tiny microswitch inside the heater control so that it only runs when the TEMP lever is in HOT position. Other wise NO hot coolant flows through the core.

If the AIR position is selected and the TEMP lever is not in HOT, the fan blows air that is not heated or cooled.

http://poca.com/pipermail/deto...2-August/063826.html

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PanteraDoug
where did you find that VDO is a three speed motor?


My other half has also cracked I fixed it years ago, I fixed mine like this.

Thanks for all help!
Anders

When I originally removed the motor from the car, I noticed that it had a part number stamped into it.

I googled that number and it came up with a cross reference of a company in Ohio that had them listed for sale new.

It listed the original applications as for a Cummings.

The chart of specifications for it indicated that it was manufactured as a three speed motor.

That number also cross referenced into the VDO motor that you see pictured. It is also listed as three speed.

My interpretation of the situation is that it was originally sourced from a US built Cummings and that Detomaso re-engineered it to be used with the switch that they wanted to use.


All things considered now though, I would be more apt to consider building in a rheostat with an infinitely adjustable thumb screw/dial to put the speed where I wanted it at that moment.

This is virtually the way every new car manufacturer has gone with that control now.

quote:

All things considered now though, I would be more apt to consider building in a rheostat with an infinitely adjustable thumb screw/dial to put the speed where I wanted it at that moment.

Solid state speed control

http://tinyurl.com/speed-controller

If this Tinyurl link is outdated, search eBay for this:

DC 12V 30A Motor Speed Control PWM HHO RC Controller


Use the fan motor's 'high' speed winding and cap off the other two.

Installed

Now that's an excellent suggestion.

quote:

The new 3 speed motor is a BM4320. I learned this from this DeTomaso list years ago. I didn't invent it. Just Google BM4320.

Do the 'squirrel cages' transfer from the original motor to the new motor, or did you purchase new fan blades (squirrel cages) too?

I need to do this in the next few weeks or the wife won't attend the Ironstone Concours with me.

Thanks!
Garth

Everything transfers over. It is the exact motor. Apparently available with various brand nsmes though?

quote:

Everything transfers over. It is the exact motor. Apparently available with various brand nsmes though?

Great! Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by desert_detomaso:

quote:

All things considered now though, I would be more apt to consider building in a rheostat with an infinitely adjustable thumb screw/dial to put the speed where I wanted it at that moment.

Solid state speed control

http://tinyurl.com/speed-controller

Use the fan motor's 'high' speed winding and cap off the other two.

Installed

I did something similar. Re-purposed the instrument dimmer switch knob by replacing the guts with the appropriate potentiometer, and the 30 amp controller from here:

http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/DCMOTOR

I pulled my blower motor and took it to a rebuild shop and one of the brushes was stuck. It is a 71 with the open winding type motor. The BM 4320 motor will not cross over and the whole unit needs to be replaced. Wilkerson wants over $1000. I don't know if the boxes are the same with all years with different motors for each year. Would a newer type attach to the back of the box and line up with the holes?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Post a picture of your unit and the blower housing.

The motor I got for mine was a $30 motor. Was a perfect fit and was three speeds.

I have the entire unit I took out of my '71. Interested?

Don't know if I want another 71 blower motor, I've already had this one in the shop and the brushes stuck within probably 10 hours or run time. Picture of blower below.

The NAPA motor I posted in page 1 of this thread fits exactly into the blower housing that I have on my car.

One of the cross listings that I came across in researching this was that of one from a US built "tractor", as in tractor/trailer. The exploded view of the unit showed not only the electric motor but the squirrel cages and the blower case also.

It wasn't an IH but I don't remember at the moment.

All the blower housing does is mount to the back of the a/c condenser box.



As I recall, both the VDO number and the NAPA number when crossed over will bring up the assembly, including the blower fans and the housing assembly. That gets progressively more expensive.

You have to back track from those numbers but you will find these specific Pantera parts in a "generic category".

It appears that they were never sourced in Italy. They were sourced right here in the US.

Probably as a result of Ford being involved in debugging the car with their engineers?



It is not rocket science to convert this thing over to anything.

Wilkinson is charging you for the knowledge. The parts are not expensive

There is effort on your part necessary to do the conversion or just pay Wilkinson.

You can pull the knowledge out of the Akoshic Records cloud but the stuff doesn't levitate and install itself?

Everything you need to know was posted here already.

I had my blower motor assembly replaced, but now the mounts for the defroster/floor vent housing is gone. The new blower housing is plastic instead of metal, no way to mount it. Does it have to be sacrificed?