How to Protect 48 IDA from rain

P.S. I want to be able to drive the car with the carb protection in place....

A flat plate sitting a few inches above the carbs on stand-offs was the factory Group 4 set-up.

You can just barely see the plate in this picture (from one of our Facebook photo albums).

The plate was used on the Pantera as well as the GT40's.

It is for the velocity stacks though and is as much as for a collector of the unburned fuel pushed back through the carbs as for keeping stuff out. If you don't then you will have a fire hazard.

You need to cover the screens to keep water out also. Separately.

The "plate" needs to be bent down about 3" as well and the simplest way to do that is to use clear 1/4" lexan and bend it down over a form using a heat gun.

The velocity stacks should be 6" tall. That will put the openings up to around 1-1/2" of the underside of the roof. That will reduce the consideration for all but the two stacks that are not covered by the roof or deck roof extension. Just keep the thing out of automatic car washes.

Those aren't made by anyone that you can buy premade.

You can get 5" or 6-1/2". The 6-1/2" are a little too close to the bottom of the roof.
JimInglese.com has the 5" spun aluminum in stock and can order a set of the 6-1/2" but not 6".

If you notice in the picture, the stock steel velocity stacks have been extended to make them taller. These are in the 5" tall vicinity.

This was common practice back in the day. You needed to cannibalize one set of stacks and solder them to a stock set. There wasn't anyone making aftermarket spun aluminum stacks for the carbs back then.

The problem with covering the carbs with anything is that it is so tight and close in there, you won't be able to get at the linkake easily and you will need to disassemble anything you make for them.

You need access to the top of the stacks to sync the carbs and the turkey tray, seem in this picture, really does not work well at all because of inaccessibility to the carbs. It is intended to isolate the carbs from engine compartment heat. Particularly from the heat of the headers. It is not what you want to do on a Pantera with webers and 180 headers. You need instant access to these carbs and instant visual access to see what is going on with them at any particular moment.

Covering them with anything CAN BE a problem unless it is done esentially like using tear off clothes some of the strippers and athletes use. Try and figure that out using rigid materials and bolts and screws?

Mine screens are being covered with little aluminum sheet metal roofs on standoffs over the jet screens and the stacks sit up under my rear louvers. In my case the louvres are functional because of the carbs and not just dress up items.

I've been working on the Lexan cover on and off but haven't arrived at a final shape and more importantly a mounting that will just unclip, i.e., tear off, in a couple of seconds for quick road access.

No pictures to show you at the moment. This stuff is in progress and never seems to get finalized, but logically it will at some point unless of course I don't live long enough to finalize it. It isn't easy to do. Webers and 180 headers on these cars do have collateral effects and when the factory was racing them these were only incidental details at most.

I recently had my Weber engine redone. The builder suggested a std carb setup to stretch horsepower and torque. Anoth option would be changing the open Weber horns to a closed air box. These previous posters have the right train of thought.

An off the wall option;
Well, I liked the look of horns and don't track this Pantera. Decided on 4" tall horns made by Cook. (4" to keep horn radius away from rear slanted window) They are a 2 pc Alum threaded unit which encases an oiled filter material. They keep dirt out, protect a bit on possible engine fire, help keep some water out while driving. If I want more power - the top filter covers unscrew.

The Cook horns pictured below are very restrictive. With covers off we dyno'd to 509hp. With covers on (including filter material) 439hp.
I love them.... sort of a Built in governor, ha.
The Inglese thin wall, open top, spun horns would be better performers. They are more heavily radiused and thinner allowing more air volume.

Here's an idea for you...Mark


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peaked...3D261429770048&rt=nc

What you can do (no one has yet) is take a piece of 1/4 lexan, bend it at about a 40 degree angle. Cut it to fit into the recess of the rear deck as an extended windshield. Attach it to the bottom of the sheet metal on the deck, where the hinges mount.

You have to play with the fit, the angle and the mounting BUT it would completely shield the carbs from the elements and it would open with the decklid.

I've been playing with this and went a slightly different route since I am working on a full set of deck louvres (like the Mind Train) and incorporated a smaller version.

The are molded rubber edgings that you could dress the edge of the lexan with. You don't need to make it air tight either.

In fact, it might be advantageous to leave a 1/2" to 1" opening around the perimeter?


Absolutely ANY covering or enclosure of the Webers will result in a big performance drop in HP.

If you look at the specs of even the wire mesh used to make the screens, the engineering numbers clearly state 46%. That's not a 46% reduction, the screen flows 46% of what the open stack does.


I am involved in something else at the moment but I am close to finalizing the velocity stacks and the carb covers.

My carbs in fact have .035" aluminum "roofs" built over the jet screens. I hear what you say on the stack heights but 5" spun aluminum is the way I am going to go. I do realize that #1 may need to be cut to fit against the glass?

There is a You Tube video of a Pantera in Japan running them and the stacks clearly clear the bulkhead glass window. So top me that is very encouraging.


In my case the louvres are interagal to the Weber intakes and they mount the lexan on the center structures.

Details, details. The Devil is in the details.

I like what you have done so far it looks great but I know that is a restrictive system.


I'm thinking that I need to protect the carbs from a "car wash" scenario. The benefit being that I won't need to worry about covering them to wash the car or worry about a friend filling the cylinders with hose water, washing the car, when he was just trying to help me out?


You and I are exactly at the same place right now although I am already resigned to the fact that I am going to look like a comp car, but that's ok with me.

None of the IDA should be left out exposed with no roof over it's head.


Look at what the GT40's did with this. They were covered with the plexiglass rear window, used an aluminum sheet metal cookie tray with o-rings around the velocity stacks, and fed them fresh air through the side roof scoops.

It should be point out as well 1) unless you have gone to a camshaft that has eliminated reversion, you can not cover the stacks with any kind of a filter.

If you do, it will get saturated with atomized fuel.

If you have ever noticed starting a car with Webers on at night, you see the ignition right through the velocity stacks. The flame is right there.

2) A taller than stock velocity stack lessens the effects of the fuel reversion. The cloud hovers inside of the stack...somewhat.

So Doug I have a question. You thought of this issue 8 months later and decided it was important enough to add to this old thread? LMAO You Funny...........

I was doing a Google search for 6" velocity stacks and the link came up so it interested me? It's a good post.

Doug,



Show us your stacks and the cover you've developed. Inquiring minds want to see...

"I will make no wine (whine?) until it's time." - Orson Wells.

The poster is worried about water in his engine, when he should be worried about abrasive dust reboring his block with each crank turn. Sure- open stacks look nice and race-tracky; back in the day we could also find a useable block for $100 when the old one wore out. The situation has changed for the worse. USE AIR CLEANERS and save blocks!

As Doug said, the reversion-cloud of fuel/air above Weber stacks will saturate a paper or especially a foam air cleaner with fuel, and Webers never did like cold starts. Backfires are common & so are stack-fires. It melts the secondary venturi in the middle of the stack, the molten metal runs down past an open valve and the next time a piston comes up it finds a lump of freshly cooled carb-metal. CRACK goes a piston and away goes another block. And maybe a cylinder head if you're not lucky. This is NOT theoretical.

Fires are a concern but the only way to run air cleaners with Webers is to run a Weber cam.

The point of that cam is to reduce if not eliminate the reversion.

I don't know about the wear and tear on the engine with open stacks is a very serious concern? I do know of quite a few Cobras and Shelbys running around for twenty or thirty years with just screens on the stacks.

There are always collateral issues created with going other than stock.

Running IR carburetored setups have issues that you could never have conceived of until you let the genie out of the bottle.

I suppose, "you pays your moneys and you take your chances"?

Bosswrench is not speaking untruths.

As the Sargent said "be careful, it's dangerous out there?"

I am SO tempted to run my car with open stacks, if just for a little while.

I like the fact of the extra power, and they look SO cool.

I just don't want to suck a bird or potato chip bag into one of the stacks going down the road. Plus, I would think a jaunt down a dirt road would probably give the engine a good internal "sanding".

I'll probably pop the air cleaners off and run the car for a day, maybe for some photo opportunities, then put the air cleaners back on.

As much of a pain as this motor has been, I don't want to be the cause of the next major issue that arises if I can help it.

I can also attest that the shape of the rear of our cars, and the absence of the AC condensor, literally sucks crap and dust and all kinds of stuff up from the road, and ultimately, into the engine if running open stacks.

Mt transaxle and engine block always has a pile of road debris after every drive, especially if I've driven through any dirt.

I say all this with my vast knowledge gained from the 4 or 5 hours of driving time I've gotten out of my car. But it'll be back on the road next week.

Dirt roads?

The Webers on the Pantera can be an issue when you are running along the beach in the shallow water at the edge and you start doing doughnuts.

Just so you should know in advance?

It's interesting me again, a year later but now I have nothing to say? Strange, very strange.

Doug its time to take your prozac you are obsessing again. LOL

I want to see the video of Doug running his car in the shallow water along the beach...

Hopefully the film will cut when he jumps out in his '70's hair style and the Sean Connery bathing suit......

Ursula Andres coming out of the water to greet him in that white bikini would be a nice treat, though....

Yikes. That's the best you guys got? I'll give you more time to get warmed up.

More pics of the factory set-up courtesy of Mike Drew and the 2003 Profiles.

Mike(not Drew)

And #2

Yes. A simple "cookie sheet" is the simplest way to deal with it.

Been there, done that. With Webers, you need as much instant access to them as you can get. That cookie sheet is problematic. You have to get it out of the way first to get to the carbs and linkage.

I used a piece of 1/4" clear lexan bent down with a heat gun and solid covers over the "jet screens" to minimize the water IF the car ever got wet? A clear roof as it were.

The Lexan is mounted to the louvres which open with the decklid so as soon as the deck is open, it is out of the way. You can't make it any faster than that.

One observation here is the height of the velocity stacks. 5" seems to be the right number for this car. The "fuel plume" only seems to rise just over the top of the stock 2-1/2" stacks. 5" keeps it in the stacks and reduces the need for the new fangled "Weber cam".

That certainly did not exist in 1972 for sure.

Curious that I came to the same conclusion as the factory on that? Purely coincidental I'm sure?


I do question the solution of supplying air through snorkels to the direction of the 1/4 window openings though. That would only work if your stick the snorkel completely out of the opening and face them forward.

I feed mine from the sugar scoop. It blows air directly down into the opening in which the Webers live.

I noticed the oil catch/breather tank factory set up too. Interesting.

I wanted to have a PCV system. Positive vacuum adds 25hp at 10 inches of vacuum. Plus it cleans the sludge out. You will get sludge with the Webers if you do not ventilate the crankcase.

I plumbed this billet tank in between the pcv valve and the vacuum manifold.

If I was going racing, I'd have to add the tank to the inlet side also. For the street, all I need is a controlled "vacuum leak" into the crankcase.

That is done by the billet oil filler cap. It has an air orifice in it. An "air jet" if you like?

With the Webers you need to keep that air orifice about .100" to reduce the vacuum signal loss to the Webers.

This is my oil extractor/catch tank.

Oh. The valve cover needed to be machined to relocate the pcv opening on this end of the cover (and in between the valve springs internally).

This is the vacuum manifold hiding under the heat shielding.

The factory moved the water tanks around too. I decided that the "overflow" tank was usefull and should be kept but not in the original inaccessible location.

I decided to move it where I could get to it easily. To do that no tanks "off the shelf" even came close.

This tank needed to be fabricated and for me it was easiest to use brass sheet and solder it together.

To get to this shape several mock ups were made from cardboard, then about 30 more changes to make it conform to the space allotted to it.

Everything in the Pantera is subject to the original compound shapes and curves of the original design so solutions are not necessarily simple but when arrived at, to me, seem obvious.

In retrospect, I like this strange boomerang shape.


Everyone has their own opinion but I don't wear Gucci loafers so I'm not bound by the same constraints as the Lamborghini designers are? I actually make the stuff (as pitiful as that might seem to some) but I'm ok with that. I get dirt under my finger nails instead of wearing nail polish. Yucky, I know.


For some inexplicable reason at this very moment, Randy Newman comes to mind...don't know why? "Living in America is really neat...you don't need to run through the jungle and scrape up your feet?" Hum? Now why did I say that? Sorry...beats me?


Any of this stuff is removable with a couple of screws and the car is returnable to it's original bland configurations? Boring as they are. Some like that. Go figure...right?

Oh...there is additional stainless heat shielding that is not in place in these pictures.