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I've set the quarter million dollar GT5-S market

SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
We all did very well this weekend with regard to Pantera prices. That was me on stage if you watched, S108, #9473, 11,700km. That represents the third GT5-Steel car I've done deals on in the last 90 days. The market is now set. Add in fees & no sales tax, that is a quarter million dollar car. Last one I did was Freds car in Orange County 225k, and just a few weeks ago, Adams 5-Steel I flew to Jersey for.
My red Pantera [S164] sold, representing almost 120k w/fees. I also won the 5000 original mile maroon '74 GTS From Daytona, produced 7/74. I waited patiently until the reserve went off then I hit it. Meanwhile, the GT5-S once on stage REALLY dominated. The crowd was excited, and when it broke a hundred immediately everyone cheered, once it broke 200, the crowd went nuts. The bidding was furious, and at 10 grand a clip, my buddy The Captain & I watched every person bidding so I wouldn't outbid myself. Auction houses trick you that way. The guy that knocked me off for a dime thought he won the car. I watched, I waited. Didn't move. The auction stalled. Once the hammer raised to end the auction.... BOOM I hit it a nickel instead of a dime [auction houses hate that] but I don't care. Done deal. The guy was mad. Within 20 minutes the Mecum office called my cell with two higher offers. With regard to the twin turbo orange car, drop dead gorgeous car, I knew that car when George owned it. It was a gold/tan/brown color and everything that could be plated was gold, including the front bumper emblem. When George died the new owner had it painted. Had a note in the car for Mecum staff not to let the car idle, 'cooling' problem. Not sure what was up w/that. 5517 blue was a 3100 original mile car that did strong money all the way up. Super nice car with date coded Arriva tires [44th week of '73]true to the cars production date. I fell off the car at 110. Great weekend for Pantera values. Cheers.
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does200does200Member
Yeah, was real fun to watch. On the GT5S cars, nice to have originality and low mileage to store in a nice garage to retain value. I would still prefer my bastardized GT5S show car with factory flares and Fontana race engine with no smog requirements. However I can see both preferences, with different ownership goals. Nice to see some good auction value finally, rather than what we have been seeing the past few years.
Last edited by does200
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Yeah, was real fun to watch. On the GT5S cars, nice to have originality and low mileage to store in a nice garage to retain value. I would still prefer my bastardized GT5S show car with factory flares and Fontana race engine with no smog requirements. However I can see both preferences, with different ownership goals. Nice to see some good auction value finally, rather than what we have been seeing the past few years.
I agree, time we're recognized.
We're onboard with all the exotics, the Hagerty Valuation Tool has Pantera shooting up like a rocket, check it out Smiler
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
From what Fred from Orange County told me about the $225k silver Pantera GT5-S , he sell this to a gentleman from Texas. he's nothing told me about a car dealer from Florida.

I also was very close to a deal whit Mr.F.Heitman but my offer was just a little to low.
Simon

Well I can tell you about the car Dealer from Florida, I put the deal together. Initially sending Donnie from Full Throttle Pantera to check the car. I was in Denver inspecting the ebay white one at 200k & visiting Dennis. Freds deal was a tough go. I reported here on forum some weeks ago that we wanted to buy the car at full asking, 225, but Fred ~would not~ sell us the car. After spending all this time and money chasing it. Fred claims he was waiting until the end of the month, we had to wait 10 days, as he kinda promised to 'hold' the car for someone. Maybe that someone was you. None-the-less, we waited as instructed. Approached him once again to do a deal, and explaining the way we felt slighted over inspecting and agreeing to buy the car on sight, only to be told NO we couldn't buy it. He thought about it, and agreed it wasn't right. Long story short, done deal. So....it's now with Donnie, just down the street from Fred getting shocks & incidentals. Now you know about the car Dealer from Florida. He has another one you can buy, one off Hurst Model Pantera, super rare. Shark
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
That was a great report Jack, your comments are always appreciated.

FYI to everyone, Jack Sharkey is an icon in the Pantera world. He's been around a long time (none of us are getting younger, eh Jack?). I feel lucky that he contributes here.


Whoa THANKYOU Thankyou thankyou for the kind words George! You're the best! Smiler
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by ItalFord:
So does this mean that the Quarter Milliion GTS-5 has dragged up all other Pantera values too? Good if you already own. Bad if you are looking.

Big time. Go to the Haggerty Valuation Report and check values. He ensures them based on actual purchase prices and live auction prices. I may be responsible for the 5-Steel prices but not the narrow body prices.
S simonMember
Big time. Go to the Haggerty Valuation Report and check values. He ensures them based on actual purchase prices and live auction prices. I may be responsible for the 5-Steel prices but not the narrow body prices.[/QUOTE]

You are not responsible for the prices of the GT5-S , the people who put there own money on the table are responsible.
Simon
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:

Big time. Go to the Haggerty Valuation Report and check values. He ensures them based on actual purchase prices and live auction prices. I may be responsible for the 5-Steel prices but not the narrow body prices.


That is misleading; Hagerty values include for '71 through '74 cars by year and body style (pre-L, L and GTS). No where are the later non Ford era cars featured.

So you purchased 2 or 3 GT5-S with someones money, which represents a large proportion of recent sales. Yes you have most certainly influenced the market, it being so small. We need to wait and see if you were prudent or not, unless your buyer continues to buy all 187, then he can set the market!
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.
S simonMember
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.

Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?

When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.

Not when the money come from somebody else.

I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.

Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?

When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.

Not when the money come from somebody else.

I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon


What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
wplwplMember
I think we all should embrace the fact that these cars are coming into there own.
Narrow body, GT5,GT5S, these are all iconic and before their time. The GT5-S today will WOW just about anybody with a pulse.

The Black car has issues from what I can see in the pics, looks like an original car needing some tlc, I guess the price was reflective on its condition.

Wayne
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:

Big time. Go to the Haggerty Valuation Report and check values. He ensures them based on actual purchase prices and live auction prices. I may be responsible for the 5-Steel prices but not the narrow body prices.


That is misleading; Hagerty values include for '71 through '74 cars by year and body style (pre-L, L and GTS). No where are the later non Ford era cars featured.

So you purchased 2 or 3 GT5-S with someones money, which represents a large proportion of recent sales. Yes you have most certainly influenced the market, it being so small. We need to wait and see if you were prudent or not, unless your buyer continues to buy all 187, then he can set the market!


Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:

Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.


I hate to get into a public argument, I sent you a PM with some hopefully constructive comments to think about.

Julian
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?


Doug,

Not so much an argument as a discussion around setting a market value. If I went out and paid $500K for a GT5-S is that the new market value? Probably not, but if I bought 5 at that price it may very well be, however I have set that price, not the market.

It's the same if I buy stock 3% (5 of 187) of all available stock in a company which will likely influence the stock price. That in itself creates attention and other investors will buy, but typically once the frenzy is over that stock drops back to a market dictated value. Of course that is the stock market, but investors are getting out of that because of volatility and investing in collector cars. Collector cars have as such become a traded commodity.

We will have to wait and see if the GT5-S commodity is the same, but if you keep buying then you can keep the price high and will own a higher percentage of the available 'stock'!

Wall Street comes to Main Street USA!
panteradougpanteradougMember
If you bought a 73 for 25 is that the value?

5 out of 187 up 100% from this time last year shows a high water mark.

Just like the Dow it is a market indicator.

Are there customers for 182 more at $225? Unlikely BUT it is HIGHLY likely the vast majority of those cars won't be for sale anytime soon.

Just like needing an engine pulley that cost $10 new but is so scarce that you have to pay $500 to get a good used one, there are similarities here.

The GT5's are rarer than the Mangustas OR any of the street Cobras. They are virtually going to demand their own price.

Those are both $25,000 cars that command whatever. $500,000 to $1,000,000.
Are they worth that? If someone is willing to pay that for them and certainly current owners aren't going to offer a car at under that number.

If you want one, you are going to have to pay what the seller wants. He doesn't care if you think it is unreasonable.
S simonMember
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:

Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.


I hate to get into a public argument, I sent you a PM with some hopefully constructive comments to think about.

Julian


Julian , I hope you get a replay.

I dont understand why Sharkey is so proud whit other peoples money.
he sud be proud if he owns them all he has bought
bdw this is my last comment on this .
Simon
Simon
Simon
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.

Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?

When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.

Not when the money come from somebody else.

I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon


What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.

Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?

When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.

Not when the money come from somebody else.

I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon


What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?


He doesn't get it Doug.
O otisMember
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.

I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.

Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?

When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.

Not when the money come from somebody else.

I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon


What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?


He doesn't get it Doug.


I agree. Either that or there is a VERY bad language issue.

A rising tide floats all boats.

Your buyers wanted the cars for the money.

I saw this happen recently with the Ford GT's. Call it a disbelief, a resistance, a bad attitude, whatever. It all applied.

People were bitchin' about spending $135,000, on them two years ago and that they paid too much.

You can't touch one for under $300,000, now. There are a lot more of them then the GT5 Panteras. Enough said?



It isn't market manipulation, it is what is called, free market here in the Capitalistic world.

I don't want to continue with this though. It sounds like I am lecturing and that is not my intention at all.
S speedunlimited (Guest)
In various venues of specific cars, there will always be educated agents that are contacted by buyers to find, evaluate & procure certain cars, in this case of Pantera widebodies that agent is "Sharkey".

I personally would seek out an agent that has knowledge & especially the most important part, that being "Contacts" when pursuing an acquisition of a relatively expensive & limited production numbers car.

It's NOT as though Sharkey has the ability/ies to raise a paddle for an independent buyer at an auction, that is PURELY the action of the bidder.

The current rise in Pantera values in all configurations for myself is reminiscent of Ferrari Dino & Lamborghini Countach appreciation over the last 5 years.

The skeptics that balked in disbelief at $200,000.00 Ferrari Dinos, must be in full cardiac arrest at current $500,000.00 Dino prices.

Learned a LOOOOOOOOOONG TIME AGO!!!...that sitting on the bench in regards to NOT buying cars because of personal perceived "Over Valuation"...meant I NEVER got in the game!!!

Lesson well learned...thus the reason I currently own 18 Sports Cars...MANY having TRIPLED in value during my ownership!
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.

I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
quote:
Originally posted by Sharkey:
quote:
Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.

I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.


Amen Brother. I work hard for my money. It is difficult at best to tell someone that is sending you all across North America, this car isn't for you, it's edgy, it has undisclosed issues. Let's pass on this one. But they take it well, and in time, I get the right car for them. Thanks for the kind words Otis. Thank You
P peterfenlonMember
quote:
Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.

I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.


Otis is without question "on the money" here.
in 2013 I was told that my 3840GTS, that I had bought from Gullwing for $41k was a $25K car
at the time that was a correct assessment, but I can only say that I am pleased that the values have increased, and I consider myself very fortunate to now not having lost money I can't afford to. That said, I do feel for those who always wanted a DTPantera but find the prices now prevent a purchase. Its a Bugger!
michael1424michael1424It takes energy not to get used to it!
You've got no idea how privileged I feel getting my car even though its just a standard Pre-L for the price I did. I know I need to spend $$'s on it to get it perfect, but even then it'll be worth so much more than the initial investment + costs to do.

Not that I'm ever selling it - my girls are already fighting over it.
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